How to identify a tractor:
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=189663
Printed Date: 04 Sep 2025 at 7:41pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: How to identify a tractor:
Posted By: Codger
Subject: How to identify a tractor:
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2022 at 9:11am
|
We have an AC tractor hauled in to get going again. The injection pump was in a box being told it's needing rebuilt and the original owner/mechanic deceased. The tractor sheet metal is very straight but repainted with all badging and tags removed. The paint is flatter than day old beer too. It looks like the size of a 190, or 200 to me and I've not found any stampings to go from. One characteristic is it does have a rod that runs topside of the floor panel on the transmission and I assume this is the gear selector apparatus. It also has that gauge quadrant style I've seen on a lot of that vintage AC tractors. The engine is an AC six cylinder and that's really all I know about it. Is this enough to identify or should I get photos to post? I can do that easy enough but I may be interested in the tractor for a relative if it runs as well as we were told before the pump went bad? It has really nice heavy loader that is not bent or twisted up at all. Even the bucket floor and cutting edge are straight.
|
Replies:
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2022 at 9:26am
| Shift rod says 190-200 to me. Serial # stamped on flywheel hsg at rear on engine |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2022 at 9:51am
| The paint is so thick on this thing we could not see any stampings at all, nor holes for an original riveted tag. Is it possible a replacement block, or engine and not stamped? I agree on the 190 to 200 series easy enough as it has that square grille also. |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2022 at 10:11am
|
Pictures would be a huge help, also could be a 210,220. The stamp on the left side bell housing would be best to have. Even with thick paint it still should be visible I would think. With that info you will know model and year produced. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2022 at 1:02pm
|
Talked to the owner/widow and she assures me the engine ran very well but was told the injection pump needed rebuilt. It was sold new at this dealer. Hasn't been into the dealer in several years however. They raised horses and this was their larger chore tractor. I may purchase it as the owner of the implement dealer tells me it is a fair price for a non running tractor. I found the stamping mentioned but it really is so filled with paint it is almost illegible; but here are some photos:       And the stamping which I can only discern "190" and a few numbers but nothing complete:  |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2022 at 1:05pm
These are brand new steer axle tires included with the tractor: |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2022 at 2:51pm
|
Looks like possibly a series III 190 going by the Tach if it’s original. Looks to be in good shape. 500 loader? ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2022 at 3:06pm
| I'll have to ask on the loader. I'm told it's always been on there. The cylinder on the left side looks like a replacement and doesn't match the other side exactly. It also has a pin or bolt in the clevis end through the loader arm rather than the original pin. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2022 at 3:11pm
|
Numbers will be stamped top to bottom along edge of Bellhousing at Right Frame to Engine. Is where my 180 is marked. Those stamped marks are the numbers buried in paint. 190 sn 25339(Closest I can Tell) Loader looks to be a Koyker.
|
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2022 at 3:16pm
Found this if transfers |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2022 at 4:05pm
| It's one of those loaders that breaks the tractor in half. |
Posted By: Joe(TX)
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2022 at 6:15pm
|
It's not an Allis loader. The 500 has the bucket cylinders under the loader arms. ------------- 1970 190XT, 1973 200, 1962 D-19 Diesel, 1979 7010, 1957 WD45, 1950 WD, 1961 D17, Speed Patrol, D14, All crop 66 big bin, 180 diesel, 1970 170 diesel, FP80 forklift. Gleaner A |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2022 at 8:18pm
|
Yeah my mistake on the loader, shouldn’t have guessed by looking at it on my phone earlier today. See it now that I zoomed in on my tablet. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2022 at 8:24pm
|
Take a piece of paper and lay it over the stamped numbers. Lay a sharpened pencil at an angle and rub over the numbers and letters. Has worked for me when they are difficult to read. Looks like maybe 190 26539XT? ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2022 at 8:30pm
|
I will be back in on Monday and do that with the numbers. Were these a good tractor overall? I have a cousin and they raise feeder cattle and he really could use it in the operation as they need another loader tractor. |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2022 at 9:49pm
|
The 190XT are great tractors when they are not abused shifting between gears. Always come to a full stop to shift other than using the power director, which is either LO or HI range for each gear. It can be shifted on the fly. When abused they can become a gear jumper meaning it will pop out of gear when going down a hill especially with a load behind you. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: Lars(wi)
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2022 at 10:11pm
|
26839XT ------------- I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science. |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2022 at 10:21pm
|
Thank you. I'm half tempted to purchase this one and verify the injection pump is bad by reinstalling it and going from there. Kinda hate taking the widow at her word but she did operate the tractor a lot I'm told. She was not able to relay any symptoms however so all I know is the injection pump is in a box and she was told it needed rebuilt? My buddy at the pump shop may, or may not charge me to run it on the bench, but I don't like to abuse relationships so thinking I'll reassemble the tractor and evaluate the operation. I'm not a farmer and never have been so quite "green" in what these were built for; hence the questions. |
Posted By: Jim.ME
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2022 at 6:15am
| The info you have says the pump needs repair. The pump is off and, in a box. You have access to someone who can bench test it, but he might charge to test it. I would have it bench tested, even if I had to pay, rather than reinstall it to check it out. There is a 50/50 chance, at best, that you will be pulling it back off to have it repaired, if you go that route. If you have the pump checked (and repaired if needed) so you know it is good to go, you have eliminated it as a cause, if the engine doesn't run right after it is installed. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2022 at 6:19am
| I'd just knock it down and go thru it. But, I can do it myself, so this would be no big deal. Chances are very good it needs a governor weight retainer anyway. |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2022 at 6:47am
|
You guys have very good points which I think should be followed. The purchase is basically made so I'll take her a check tomorrow morning and get the tractor back to my shop inside. I'll then pull the injectors and send them in also so everything can be tested/calibrated together. This way I'll have a good baseline. I was assured the tractor ran/operated well and did not burn oil, but really nothing else such as hard starting symptoms etc. I did pull the dipstick yesterday and nothing but black oil on the "full" mark. I see a lot of older tractors almost daily hauling for these folks and they were an AC dealer starting in 1949 and still try to support the line best they can. I would have purchased the 200 they traded for last year with a cab but the sheet metal was beat up a little and it had a bit of coolant in the oil so didn't go with it. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2022 at 7:24am
| While have all that down, pull valve cover. After get Injector pump back on and In Time run the valves with the nozzles out(Easier to turn over as well verify on No 1 Compression for Timing) and then return the cover then install the nozzles. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2022 at 7:47am
| Injection pump drive shaft is a flat tang drive. On one side of the flat tang is a "dot". Align the dot on the shaft with the dot inside the pump and you are on #1. |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2022 at 7:59am
|
Thank you. The pump is wrapped in a towel inside a plastic bag and the pump mounting face on the timing cover is plugged with a shop towel and "duct tape". I didn't unwrap anything, nor uncover, so really didn't know how the drive worked. Given the way the injection lines are routed around circular I assume it's a Roosa-Master DB series pump. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2022 at 8:14am
| Should be Stanadyne Style, IE a Roosa Master. |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2022 at 8:14am
|
Talked to the widow yesterday and she will sell the tractor easy enough "as is". Trouble is neither she, nor I have a solid value in mind so I'll solicit opinions. Nothing has been done so far. It will come with new front Firestone four rib tires, and a pair of very good condition rear tires with tubes. It does need one rim replaced on the left rear as they have fluid in them and the valve stem area is leaking from corrosion. She is not certain the injection pump is bad, but her husband pulled it off to send in falling ill shortly afterward and never was able to go further. The engine has about 1400 hours or so since a rebuild by a now defunct machine shop. She does have receipts and it was a good rebuild from them. The clutch assembly was also replaced then. The tractor was repainted at that time and usually kept under a loafing shed, but open to the sun. You now know about what I do so what does anyone think would be fair to pay for this thing? Not looking for a resale unit here at all, but I do want to be fair with her, and of course me. Thanks,
|
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2022 at 12:09pm
|
Photos from this morning:   |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2022 at 4:25pm
|
That wheel can be repaired, no need to be replaced. As far as price your taking a gamble on a non running tractor that you have no way of verifying before you purchase it. Can’t verify the transmission or the engine actually. Myself, a $1,500-$2k offer would be fair. If the pump is the issue, plan on spending $1,000 rebuilding it and the injectors. So your up $3k if nothing else is needed. Depends on how bad you want it and if you don’t mind spending some more money on it if that not all that is wrong with it. They are really good tractors when all is well. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2022 at 4:30pm
|
Did you ever figure out what the serial number is? I think it may be a series III. If so, they are worth more. Has the heavy rear end like the 200. Just guessing, if that’s the factory Tach then it very well could be a series III. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2022 at 5:12pm
| A late series 3 190XT rear end isn't the same as a 200 rear end. While the transmission and differential are extremely similar, the ring and pinion is different/stronger (9 x 35 teeth versus 10 x 39 teeth) and both bull gears and bull pinions are wider, again for more strength and durability. |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2022 at 6:31pm
|
I have not figured the serial number yet. I did look at it but it will require some paint removal to ascertain the number exactly. Didn't want to do that unless absolutely necessary. I really don't have a need; just a want. I'm wanting to put almost 12 acres into hay within a couple of years is reason for the interest at all. I've never been a farmer but grand daughters are getting to wanting a couple head of horses and I well remember what that cost with my daughter..... Wanting to turn "scrub ground/woods" into good pasture/feed to offset the cost(s) a bit. Uncle in the area is willing to help me get started and has much of the needed equipment. He would round bale and take first and third or last cutting for his feeder calves where I would square bale the 2nd and possibly 3rd cutting. I'm only repeating what I've been told as there is no experience speaking but second cutting is usually best for horse feed? I asked about the rear pinion and gears upgrade and they were done at the dealership many years ago. A former mechanic whom still frequently visits did them and remembers the parties well. He was there almost 55 years so seen a lot. Only employment he ever had other than farming and horses. You are in the same ballpark I am with purchasing price. There seems to be heavy emphasis on the loader on the tractor for some reason. They have a bale spear for it but it' s never been attached to this loader. I don't know what tires in the sizes for this tractor are worth in the purchase either. The fronts are "Firestone" and new, the rears are "Earth-Quake", (I think) and about 75% with good tubes. I'll append this post to get a photo attached. I too thought that rim could be easily repaired but it depends on what it looks like once the tire is broken down. I've sectioned a lot of rims over the years on tractors brought to me for repair. Tires:  |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2022 at 11:09pm
|
Your uncle is being generous giving you 2nd and 3rd cutting. It is the best quality hay for horses because it’s blade hay which doesn’t have the long stems of 1st cutting. I’m describing orchard grass that we raise in our area. Not for sure what type of hay you have available. As far as the loader, if you absolutely need a loader, sell that one and find a AC 500 loader. It has supports that go back and attach to the axles. This provides more strength for the loader and helps takes stress off the bell housing. The loader that is presently on it are known to break the tractor in half. Not saying it breaks every tractor they are on, but it does happen. If used lightly and not abused it may be ok. Just not a loader I would want on my 190XT especially with it being over 50 years old. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2022 at 12:10am
|
Thank you for your help. I don't know much about hay at all really but Timothy is one name that is very popular in the arena. Alfalfa, Timothy, and another name which slips me now are a common field crop for animal feed here. My uncle has been raising feeder cattle and some horses for over 50 years and grows most of his feed for the animals on about 120 acres IIRC. He was telling me the 1st cutting is out for sure for horses. He also has a round baler as that is what he feeds with. We have 30 acres of undeveloped land/woods of which we have been opening up over the past couple of years for this project. I'll then get a road cut through instead of the ATV path there now for access. I don't have any farm equipment at all myself, but family members do and are willing to help me get started. However that being said, I only want to use their equipment to figure out what I need to have, and what not so I can acquire items that will be used and not become derelict. I have a bulldozer, a backhoe loader, and a skid steer. I really don't need a loader tractor so I could do without that loader on the 190XT. My mowing tractor is a White 2-55 but I've been told it would be a little "light" for hay work and when this larger tractor came in I inquired about it. I still see a few of these working too. It sounds as I should not place too much emphasis on that loader as it could be a problem with a bale spear. I've seen loaders with the bracing running to the rear as you mentioned, and I've seen tractors welded back together in the attachment areas, but always thought that was from abuse. The only real reason I could think of for the loader would be a bale spear to load round bales on a wagon or trailer, but I don't really think that is the loader to use in that task. If I'm correct in this assumption it was a very good tip you and Dr. Allis brought forth.
|
Posted By: DanWi
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2022 at 7:26am
| Just build some braces to the back axle and keep the loader that you have. |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2022 at 8:43am
|
That is an idea to consider. I would need to physically see how other loader frames are attached and braced to tractors as never really have paid attention. I could fab something but it would be over built. I will be speaking with her on Tuesday about the purchase.
|
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2022 at 11:36am
|
Dead issue. Owner has great disparity between expectations, and actual cash value of tractor. Thanks,
|
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2022 at 8:49pm
|
That far apart in price? ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2022 at 9:31pm
|
A little over double what we discussed for it as is, where is. Really got "starry eyed" for some reason after talking with someone else whom may have offered a bit more than I would be willing to go. Really appreciate your input in the thread as I'm pretty green with the overall course to be taken. Was speaking with my uncle earlier today about it and he has an IH 856 I can use for the task, but needs a fuel tank and a rear tire to be operational. This tractor has done a lot of work for him but replaced several years ago in his operation. I remember it being used, but it's been over 10 years since and it's buried in the shed where the tractors are kept.
|
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2022 at 7:50pm
| This tractor will leave tomorrow morning without being touched by the implement dealer. She/owner has remarried and the new husband "knows" someone that will repair it. Something funny about this scenario but none of my business so asked no questions. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2022 at 6:53am
1st cutting out for horses huh?  OK. Wonder how horses ever survived before man began to care for them. 1 thing I know dealing with horse people for 45 years, ask 10 people their opinion on horse hay, you'll get at least 5 answers.
|
Codger wrote:Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2022 at 7:22am
| I have no direct experience myself. Only know less than have been told. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2022 at 7:29am
Oh, I get it. Trust me. From here, you have several paths to choose from. 1. Don't waste your time researching it, it's a rabbit hole as intriguing as Covid, though not quite as dramatic. 2. If you ever want to, make some hay, put it for sale, someone will buy it. 3. Start your "research", pick a side and direction early, then be very insistent and forceful in all of your comments about horse hay, and everyone will think you're very smart (or an a55hole, depending on who you're talking to.) 4. Shake your head in amazement at the human condition. I suggest somewhere between 1 and 2. But, I don't know you very well at all, so you do you and enjoy the ride. Cheers  BTW, between my Dad and I, we have sold 10's of 1000's of square bales of hay to horse people over the years, the vast VAST majority of which was 1st cutting. So, it's not "out for horses".
 |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2022 at 12:25pm
I'm usually one to tell someone to go  Themselves if they give me a hard time when selling something. I however don't sell anything without full disclosure as it was the way I was raised and practice in life.Know what you mean about horse owner's and their "opinions" on hay. Never really participated in those squabbles as far too childish to warrant my time. Same thing with their trailers. Have several customers with very expensive outfits that make no sense to me. However, they are breeders and apparently their field is lucrative. It would have to be to justify the expense for me. My daughter knows how to break into a flake and tell if it's worth feeding or not; not I for sure. I would plant a crop she researched and fostered as I'm only looking for a family project to work together for. Granddaughters are anxious to get started so trying to ramp up before they get the age to get into trouble. Family unity and interaction is very important to us so all concerned are on board with the project.
|
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2022 at 8:32am
|
Going to update this a bit as got word back yesterday the purchaser of the 190XT had the injection pump rebuilt, and reinstalled it onto the engine. For some reason it "ran away" and they couldn't get it shut down before scattering the engine. Not being one interested in the following "drama" of the story, I went to take a leak and let them spew as they were not fully informed that we only stored the tractor, and did nothing to it. That's the gist of the story as relayed to me later.
|
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2022 at 6:55am
| What little I know about Roosa's says that had to be a rebuilder screw up. Those pumps have throttle tied open to install which holds governor in place without driveshaft inside. Maybe they didn't untie the throttle? |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2022 at 6:39pm
|
I don't have any idea really. There were many facets to that story and it started when the widow's allegedly "new" husband came in and told us "they" decided to keep the tractor. I handed this "new husband" the box containing the injection pump and hardware associated with it's removal so he could have it rebuilt. The tractor then left sometime later while I wasn't around. I thought nothing further about it till another gent showed up looking for answers to why the engine let go as I think he was told we had worked on it. I was told later he purchased it while we had it, but the seller didn't want to pay for a pump rebuild. Shakes out there are a few "liars" involved with this tractor and it's sale, so I am happy my interest was closed out/collapsed on it earlier. I'll be working in your area starting tomorrow morning helping a cousin during harvest.
|