V-twin Honda mower won’t run when warm.
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Topic: V-twin Honda mower won’t run when warm.
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Subject: V-twin Honda mower won’t run when warm.
Date Posted: 14 May 2022 at 10:00pm
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This is on a cub cadet zero turn. It starts right up and mows perfect for a few minutes then dies and won’t restart. After 20 minutes it starts right back up. What I’ve done so far. Changed both coils and spark plugs. Cleaned gas tank, lines and carburetor. I’ve ran it with the gas cap loose. Tested the fuel pump. Added new non ethanol when I cleaned the carb. I’ve cleaned every electrical connection on it. I’m wondering if maybe a valve starts sticking when it gets warm? I can’t tell if it’s running out of gas but I truly believe it’s electrical. When it tries to start when warm it sounds like the timing is off and has a bit of spark knock and an occasional backfire. When cool it starts and runs perfect. I’ve also wondered about the fuel solenoid.? |
Replies:
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 14 May 2022 at 10:19pm
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You COULD have a failing fuel solenoid. You could ALSO have a fuel line with interior lining breaking down, and being drawn shut... probably between fuel pump and tank or selector valve. Engine and driveline heat warms it up, softens it, and it draws in and constricts the fuel flow enough to cause it to run lean, and eventually stall. ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: Dave H
Date Posted: 15 May 2022 at 7:04am
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I don't think you mentioned changing the fuel filter, but you probably did? My V Twin Kaw does that popping and pfarting right before it lights up, has for years. Could try taking a fuel hose, stick it in some gas an hook the other end straight to the fuel pump and try it when it won't start. If you use clear tubing you could see how/if that pump is sucking. When she is dead in the water you could check to see if the fuel solenoid is getting juice. What a puzzle.
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Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 15 May 2022 at 7:11am
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To eliminate the fuel solenoid, you could carefully pull off the 'rubber' tip,then reinstall the solenoid. This allows gas to flow '24/7'. If the engine still dies then NOT the solenoid, so put the rubber tip back on. Have seen 3-4 Kohlers do this..'bad' gas gums up the solenoid rubber.... Not low on oil ?? ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 15 May 2022 at 8:11am
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This has no rubber tip on the solenoid rod. Just a metal taper. It has a removable plunger. I could try that. I can not find a low oil switch on this motor. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 15 May 2022 at 8:26am
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pull a spark plug and see if it is sparking when hot. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 15 May 2022 at 1:16pm
Got two hours out of it this morning before it quit. I did test spark with a screw driver. It seems to be firing but possibly intermittent? Broad daylight hard to see the spark. |
steve(ill) wrote:Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 15 May 2022 at 2:01pm
| Adjust the valves. Gets hot and clearances are closing up where valves are likely staying partially Open. |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 15 May 2022 at 6:12pm
I believe this is exactly what’s happening. Will adjust them tonight. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 15 May 2022 at 7:29pm
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i have worked on several Briggs, and smaller Chinees engines that did not run when hot.. Valves too tight is a common problem. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 5:42am
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I pulled the valve covers last night. The valves were in spec per the manual. I reckon I’m on to the next phase of this nightmare. Gonna get some marvel mystery oil and run in the gas and see if a little top end lube may help. She was able to mow 2 hrs without it dying last weekend but it was much cooler that day. Pulled the plugs. They look good but possibly a little lean. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 6:35am
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OK, dumb questions but...... is there GREAT airflow from 'blower' past cylinders ? NO remnants of 'mouse house' constructions ? is oil level 'at the mark' ? ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 9:16am
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jay may be on to something.. Maybe the carb gets hot and gasoline VAPOR LOCKS ? See if adequate air flow around the carb ... no restrictions... no extra covers.. ? .......... assuming you DO have a spark ? ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 11:34am
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I had the main cover off to change coils and clean carb. I also rerouted the gas line Incase of vapor lock which the symptoms remind me of. It has some lower covers around the block and bottom of cylinders/heads. I’m gonna pull those off tonight and check. I blew air in there but never removed them. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 6:22pm
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I've seen the remains of a real nice rider burned up cause of a 'mouse CONDO' in the blower /cooling ductwork. It was soooo packed FULL of 'kindling'.... every spring I remove the covers and blow the KRAP out of neighbour's rider.... ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 7:55pm
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Pulled every cover off tonight. All was clean as new. Ready for the next try. 
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Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 8:01pm
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dang... I ain't got too many more straws to pull outta my magic hat..... ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 8:40pm
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Posted By: Kansas99
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 9:08pm
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This wouldn’t happen to be a 20 hp vertical? ------------- "LET"S GO BRANDON!!" |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 9:10pm
Yes it is |
Posted By: fjdrill
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 9:46pm
| coil? |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 10:00pm
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Thad, i think you do need to VERIFY a good spark next time it is HOT and STOPS... You have to determine if this is a SPARK or GAS problem to move forward. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 19 May 2022 at 11:05pm
| make sure the gas cap vents |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 6:39am
Steve I believe it has spark. It may be intermittent but it has spark. I pull a plug each time and never are they wet/gas soaked although o believe heat might be the cause. I’m gonna buy two of those little spark checkers to test it with. Using a screwdriver shows spark to some degree. Seems to try to run on right cylinder and the left seems to not hit at all when this happens. It tries to start with left plug wire pulled but doesn’t even try with the right wire pulled. Wondering of it has a weak fuel pump or weak vacuum when warm? |
Posted By: Kansas99
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 6:52am
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Thad, I wish I could help but I had that exact motor on a landpride razor that did the exact same thing, although it would only do it when it was hot outside, at least 95 or more, if there was no wind then it would do it at lower temp. I had dual tanks and could switch back and forth and help but not solve, I never figured out what the cause was, but I was almost certain it was a vapor lock issue. I guess I really gave up because usually it was hot enough out that you didn't want to be on a mower anyways, so it was a excuse. Mine was new enough that it had the black outer plastic cover, but my neighbor had same mower older red metal cover 20hp and it wouldn't do it. I was almost at the point of putting a fuel can in the freezer and when it did it pour that fuel in or try rapping the black fuel tanks in white. I changed fuel line routing checked everything, got nothing. I don't know if that's your problem but I felt fuel was mine, just never got it figured out. Have you had this mower a while? I can't remember now but I think mine started first year or two I had it. ------------- "LET"S GO BRANDON!!" |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 7:13am
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ne of those ...be nice to be there to SEE it problems.. hmm 'dies'.. is it a slow, fumbly kinda death or quick and stopped ? does the carb have a drain to check if gas is in the bowl when it fails ? Be REAL careful, hot engine, gasoline...... does carb have an 'anit-dieselling' shuttoff solenoid ? Kohlers were nasty to fail('cure' was to remove the rubber tip...) usually you can hear it 'click' on/off with the key being 'on/off'. hard to believe it's a mag issue, they 'usually' fail hard....eventually. going to be interesting to see what CURES this PITA !! ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 11:47am
Red main engine color the rest are black. I do feel that re-routing the fuel line helped. |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 11:49am
Has brand new coils. Dies a slow fumbly kind of death. Spit spider n die. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 5:31pm
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The carburetor may be getting hot and causing the VAPOR LOCK... the gas line can contribute to it.... But we have not discussed the gas tank location ? Is there radiant heat on the bottom of the gas tank ? Could it use an insulation blanket or baffle from the motor ? ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 8:05pm
The gas tank is under a black cover on the left side to the left of the engine. It sits right over the left rear tire. Fuel line comes out of the top of the tank ang runs in front of the motor then around the right side of the motor to the fuel pump then to the carb. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 8:35pm
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Fuel line comes out of the top of the tank ang runs in front of the moto so it does work off some type of vacuum sysyem or fuel pump suction... and not gravity feed... that could be a clue.. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: TramwayGuy
Date Posted: 20 May 2022 at 10:02pm
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If there is a restriction at the tank feed line, there could be a vacuum buildup and gasoline will ‘boil’ at a lower point than at atmospheric pressure. Also, using winter blend gasoline can also cause problems if used in summer… |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 21 May 2022 at 6:36am
It is supplied by a plastic vacuum operated fuel pump. I’ve removed, inspected and cleaned all the fuel lines and fuel pump. I started it with the fuel line to carb in a jug. It pumped a steady stream. I removed the pump, cleaned it and put vacuum to it. I found no vacuum leakage. |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 21 May 2022 at 6:39am
Tram you really have me thinking. Last winter when gas prices started going up. I went and filled every can on the property. The successful run I had with the mower was with fresh non e gas that I had just bought that morning. It was also cooler that day. When at its worst was with the winter bought gas. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 21 May 2022 at 6:40am
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Assuming pump gets it's vacuum from a valve cover..... are the bolts securing the valve cover tight ? Any oil drips from that cover ? Going far out on a limb but.... as then engine heats up, valve cover becomes 'loose' from head, loss of vacuum, loss of gas, engine stops. when it all cools down...'runs fine'. hay, I only got so many straws left ! ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 21 May 2022 at 6:57am
Jay it draws vacuum from a barn on the intake. Valve covers were tight when I removed them to check valves. Yhey have very nice well made gaskets. May check intake bolts??? Hondas seem to be well machined with good seal ability. I’ll keep checking. |
Posted By: fixer1958
Date Posted: 21 May 2022 at 7:25am
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Where is the ignition pickup on that? I had an Onan that did that and was on the crank behind the flywheel. Get hot and start doing what you described. You can learn to hate something very quickly. |
Posted By: BrianC
Date Posted: 21 May 2022 at 7:30am
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A favorite diagnostic tool is a can of ether. When it dies, right away give it a snort of ether and see if you get some action. Fuel was winter blend, how old is it? 4 months, or the previous year, 16 months? Anyone know what old gas symptoms look like? What make, year, model # is this mower? That will help for using internet search about this issue. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 21 May 2022 at 8:07am
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re: Jay it draws vacuum from a barn on the intake. **** well I know this is a 'farming website'..... I'll assume 'spellcheck' or 'phatphingers', hehehe ok, maybe 'google' your engine/ dies when hot to see if it's a common problem ?? ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 21 May 2022 at 8:17am
Vacuum port. Was supposed to say barb. |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 21 May 2022 at 8:20am
I have not pulled the flywheel. I figured everything was charging related under there. These coils each have a 4 prong plug plus the coil/spark plug wire. |
Posted By: Kansas99
Date Posted: 21 May 2022 at 8:28am
Interesting I never knew that, would explain why a electric fuel pump at the tank will take care of vapor lock problems sometimes. I guess it’s same principle as boiling water at room temperature. Pulling a vacuum. ------------- "LET"S GO BRANDON!!" |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 21 May 2022 at 8:28am
Cub Cadet 17AGACACN56 Honda GXV 630 688cc. |
Posted By: fixer1958
Date Posted: 21 May 2022 at 9:33am
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I see what you have now. Not the same as that POS Onan.
Possibly be a fuel line sucking air some place. Maybe opening up a little when hot. I have had one collapse before internally and not see it. It was an automotive style low pressure fuel line on my WD line from the tank to the carb.
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Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 21 May 2022 at 10:29am
Been giving this some thought |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 21 May 2022 at 12:26pm
there are some electric fuel pumps that put out 2 psi and go inline from the tank to the carb... they only cost $15. ......... used on a lot of mowers.
 ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Dave H
Date Posted: 21 May 2022 at 1:48pm
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Since we are fishing, I would ohm out those coil packs when it won't run, especially the weak/dead side. Highly unlike;y but I have seen new parts right out of the box bad. |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 22 May 2022 at 7:40am
I wish I knew how? These have 4 prong plugs. I’ve tried to figure out just how these work with no success. I tried them like a common old coil but got nothing. |
Posted By: fixer1958
Date Posted: 22 May 2022 at 8:03am
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Well if it still does the same thing changing all those parts it's likely not the problem. Step back a little and ask the great white buffalo for a clue. Seriously though, I think when you do figure it out it may be something stupid. Has happened to me before.
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Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 22 May 2022 at 8:56am
Oh I assure you stupid has already kicked in. I should have found a way to test those very expensive coils before I bought them. I took it to a supposed reputable shop to get this figured out. He said he had no way to test coils. After a few questions I found. Him to be an oil changer and no more experienced in this than I and at $80.00 an hour I had to bring it back home. Not knocking the guy or his prices just that he can’t figure this out and told me so. I actually appreciate his honesty. And yes I’m sure this is gonna be something simple. |
Posted By: Riprock
Date Posted: 22 May 2022 at 8:56pm
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Do you have the service manual? I did a search and zoomed in on the cover and noticed it shows the carb has a plastic screen inside the fuel inlet. I ran into that many years ago on a kerosene blow type heater. It would run awhile and then run out of fuel, let it sit and it would run again, for awhile. https://publications.powerequipment.honda.com/details/61Z6P00E3" rel="nofollow - https://publications.powerequipment.honda.com/details/61Z6P00E3
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Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 22 May 2022 at 10:31pm
| i do not know what honda engine that you have but honda rt 5000 compact tractor has a plain gx 390 except for one thing it has a cdi box to control the spark , if it starts going bad it will cause the same problems , i know this for a fact because we over hauled one for a guy about eight years ago becaucse a regular honda engine will not bolt or fit in the tractor , about three years ago he had cdi problems a guy in new york will send a rebiult one if you send him your bad one |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 23 May 2022 at 4:56am
The little screen is removed at the moment. It didn’t help. |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 23 May 2022 at 5:43am
This is a Honda GXV630RH QAMT Book says CDI variable timing. I’m not box I can find is the regulator/rectifier. It also has two relays in line with the rectifier. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 23 May 2022 at 6:22am
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this !!!!! These have 4 prong plugs. !!!!!!! HUGE RED FLAG !!! I had a Cub here,Kohler powered,same idea though.... the 'electronic' magnetos can (will...) overheat and eventualy die. Kphler's fix ( only used 2-3 years) was to disco the part and go back to ,yup, OLD SKOOL mags. They even sell a 'rework' kit(2 mags and a wire...). You need to check Honda's website for specific 'tech bulletins' on your engine. It'd be interesting to see if they still sell that engine with that style mag. I strongly suspect heat is 'altering' the 'electronic magneto pack' and it's shutting down. My 'fix' for the Cub here was to sell ,at a low price with FULL DISCLOSURE of the problem, and link to new mag kit. ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 23 May 2022 at 7:27am
Sure wondering if I could put old non electronic coils on this? I have too much time in it to give in. Jenny may not think this way. 
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Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 23 May 2022 at 10:37am
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has a very quick look on the net,googling .... Honda GXV630RH QAMT found this.... https://www.hondapartsnation.com/oemparts/a/hen/5702cf2d87a86613d09de4ef/ignition-coil" rel="nofollow - https://www.hondapartsnation.com/oemparts/a/hen/5702cf2d87a86613d09de4ef/ignition-coil seems there's TWO coils $98 vs $155. My guess is the 'cheap' one is 'normal', the 'expensive ' one is electronic..... Use your engine model info and snoop around.... google the honda coil numbers from that site to see what they are it's nice outside, I wanna go play...... HTH Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: BrianC
Date Posted: 23 May 2022 at 11:33am
Ignition coil issues, look around for this pdf: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiOqpTvhPb3AhVmk4kEHeKxDjEQFnoECAoQAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ipspower.com%2Fimages%2Fdocuments%2Ftechnical-information%2FGX690-Ignition-Coil-Bulletin.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2H96DVsxSUrd93mpsfjYRD" rel="nofollow - - GX690-Ignition-Coil-Bulletin.pdf |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 24 May 2022 at 5:21am
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I got put in contact with a guy yesterday who swears this will be the fuel solenoid. He told me a couple more tests to try. He thinks heat is getting to it and it gets weak the hotter it gets. I may run it without it one time just to see. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 24 May 2022 at 6:41am
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had a look.... #1 in the right dwg... https://www.hondapartsnation.com/oemparts/a/hen/5702cf2d87a86613d09de4fa" rel="nofollow - https://www.hondapartsnation.com/oemparts/a/hen/5702cf2d87a86613d09de4fa /carburetor .. hopefully you CAN remove and plumb up a 'bypass'...... Kohlers were(are?) bad for 'gumming' up the innerds of the solenoid valve(varnish from E10 gas...). quik test is to remove the rubber tip and reinstall it. no rubber, no stopping the gas.. I may have said all this before ?? ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 24 May 2022 at 6:58am
Jay these don’t have a rubber tip. The plunger is also removable. I’m gonna remove it, screw the outside part back in and no electric to it and give it a try. |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 29 May 2022 at 8:54pm
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I removed the fuel solenoid plunger and started the mower. I let it run for about 20 minutes. I noticed the fuel filter started to look empty and then it sputtered and died. I quick checked compression. The left had a quick 120 lbs. the right built a slow 90 lbs. I will check them cool tomorrow and see if there is any difference. I’m wondering if a weak cylinder could cause low vacuum and cause the fuel pump to quit? |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 29 May 2022 at 9:56pm
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i would buy a small electric pump for $10. and bypass the vacuum pump. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 30 May 2022 at 6:24am
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re: a weak cylinder could cause low vacuum and cause the fuel pump to quit? maybe, if that's the cylinder that the pump is connected to. but that's a long shot. more likely the rubber 'vacuum' hose is not '100%' perfect and tight fitting. add a little heat and vibration and you could lose vacuum and then gas ,over time. I've replaced a lot of fuelpumps on riders with B&S engines over the decades, have to be CAREFUL removing the hoses from them ! Otherwise you break the 'spigot'...... I now use a 'trim removal tool', looks like bent screwdriver with slotted face. Great at GENTLY pushing the hoses off. Last batch of pumps came from Banggood.com WITH fuel filters AND clips. This ones are screwed together so can be 'inspected'..unlike the US welded ones. ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 31 May 2022 at 9:25pm
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Update I installed an electric fuel pump. It started and ran perfect for about 5 to 10 minutes and dies as it has been. I was very unhappy. I started checking for spark and it was very weak and sometimes not at all. I even grabbed the plug and didn’t get hit. I started watching a video on how to test 4 prong coils. It said unhook the ignition wires and hook them together and see if it has spark. I did and it started right up and ran perfect for a couple seconds. I hooked them back up and it would try to start but not start. Again I hooked the two together and it started instantly but only for a couple seconds. There has to be a sensor or something getting hot and causing it. I see an oil sending unit but it has no wires to it. I don’t see an oil switch. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2022 at 6:06am
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sadly, it's really pointing to a bad 'coil pack'. One that when heated, fails, then once cooled 'repairs' itself. In my case one was DEAD. Kohler offers a kit( to old skool mags and a some wires. Honda may offer the same 'repair kit' ? Depending on the MFR of the rider, they may/may not use an oil sensor. While the Kohler was wired for it, the Cub dash wasn't. A proper wiring diagram for your rider will tell the story. It's really a TERRIBLE environment for 'electronic mags' to be used. LOTS of high heat, hot-cold 'cycles', vibrations, EMI (noise)...really amazing they work at all. Cub Cadet is made by MTD, so you can get manual from them. If you really like the unit,contact Honda or local small engine place, ask/buy the 'regular' coils.
------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2022 at 7:11am
I believe this motor should run on one cylinder. If a coil is bad the other should run. Hard for me to believe all four the (original two and the brand new two from Honda are all bad.) Also when it dies when hot unhook the ignition wires and hook the motor wires to each other and it fires and runs perfect but only for one second. I believe it runs this short time because of one of those wires that are unhooked , puts voltage to the fuel solenoid. |
Posted By: BrianC
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2022 at 8:40am
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I commend you for not giving up. Fuel solenoid to my knowledge physically blocks off the main jet when power is removed. All the YouTube videos say remove a rubber plunger cap or cut the plunger stem. Then you know it is not in your way. I would hook up the wire also, in case the engine is so smart it needs to sense the solenoid current draw. Ya never know. Or at least until you get your degree in Honda small engine technology. I was looking for info on the 4 wire coils, could not get much info. Can you post a link to the stuff you found. I was thinking like Jay, oh no, 4 wires, they made it "smart". I assume the carb has a drain plug. If you remove the plug and turn on the new fuel pump, do you get gas constantly? My last adventure with a mower was a plugged elbow at the tank. Thiis would prove that the pump is reliably delivering, and the needle is passing fuel. It is possible that sometimes the needle sticks shut. How to check for that, uhmm, maybe put your finger on the drain hole to let the float rise, then remove, repeat and repeat. If you loosen the drain plug so it just dribbles, it should do so for as long as there is gas in the tank. Being down 30lbs on compression test is not good. The engine has mechanical problems. Try the old squirt of oil and retest. Rings, head gasket or poorly seating valve. Does it have a compression release gizmo? More "smart" stuff. And then the spark system. You are up against a marginal design, not enough info about how it works and how to diagnose... Good luck on that. Honda engines, are they losing their reputation? |
Posted By: Dave H
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2022 at 10:28am
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Yeah, you have really busted your buns on this one. I run a KAW V on the Z but it is a 1999. It has two old style coil packs with just the spark plug wire coming out and one spade for the kill wire. I recently slapped a new pair (either amazon or ebay) on since one was not ohming our t right. when I hit the start the thing blew out a small cloud and has been running like a race horse since. I been wondering all along if a bunch of that fancy techno crap could be trashed and slap a couple of the good ole days coils on it. There has got to be the info out there some where, Just spent some time on you tube. Found a video titled (Kohler CV25S Ignition Repair (eliminating the external module). It shows taking all the smart stuff off and strapping two of the old style coil packs on with no mods other than yanking the new fangled stuff and putting two used coils of the old style on. I recommend dialing that video up and checking it out.
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Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2022 at 11:00am
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re: Hard for me to believe all four the (original two and the brand new two from Honda are all bad.) Not had for me, if it's a bad design/build from the drafting table, they ALL can be 'bad',only a matter of time and location. I know about the Kohler Koils.. Cub Cadet only had them 2 years, then NLA,so the 'retro kit' was 'invented'. Since I didn't need the rider, sold it as it WITH FULL DISCLOSURE about the problem. Guy bought it, ripped out engine put a 'normal' B&S into it. You get A+++ for effort though !!! ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: tadams(OH)
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2022 at 12:28pm
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For parts for MTD try http://www.ghlenssurplus.com" rel="nofollow - www.ghlenssurplus.com or http://www.theshelbymall.com" rel="nofollow - www.theshelbymall.com . They get all parts from MTD and have them in stock at a reasonable price.
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Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2022 at 8:46pm
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When I got home I pulled a cover, gas tank and some other parts to get a better look at the wiring harness. I traced that ignition wire towards the rectifier where there were two relays. I knew of them but assumed they were for the charging. I replaced the one the ignition ran to. It now runs perfect. I mowed for several hours with it. Thank you each for the help. |
Posted By: Kansas99
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2022 at 9:06pm
 I wonder if that was all that was wrong with mine, I'll tell the guy that has it, of course he's never mowed in the afternoon when it's hot, he's usually drunk and passed out by then. ------------- "LET"S GO BRANDON!!" |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2022 at 9:37pm
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Well, Thad,,I been following your thread and rooting for you knowing what great shade tree you are,,, I was just going to suggest like ole Dave H had in mind as that is what I done with the Grandson's little Side by Side. My son bought it for him not even a year old and it got to where it would not run and after calling the vendor in next town,,,he wasn't much hellp cause he told me,,Those little Chinese Quads got all kinds of chit like horn, lights electric start even a "Remote Safety Stop" For parents to watch Junior,,,,He told me there is SO MUCH that can go wrong all they can do is start replacing parts til they find the culprit,,,BUT,they will NOT remove the parts already installed and their flat rate is $90 per hour,,Jimminey,,,!! Anyway, there is a dude on YouTube that shows you how to cut all thet extra BS wiring and "Extras" and install what he calls a "PIT BIKE" kit that installs ONLY what the engine needs to start and run! I removed all the factory wiring and made my own simple wiring harness with a push start button and a toggle switch kill,,, It now runs flawlessly and starts every time!! Don't got no horn, lights remote kill nuttin,,I even decided to do away with the charging system and just charge the battery every week. When you remove all that new fangled stuff ,,,what is left is a chinese clone for a good ole Briggs And Strattton. Glad you got your mower going,,,I know how bad you was wantin to cut some grass,,,,,
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Posted By: BrianC
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2022 at 6:09am
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You replaced a relay and that fixed it? I wouldn't even think there would be a relay in there. Perhaps they should retire the entire flywheel magnetic iron coil design. The added complications of variable timing. |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2022 at 7:18am
And no mention of it in the book or Cub website either. Honda tech it top Secret |
Posted By: Dave H
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2022 at 8:18am
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Way to go Thad. Gees what is next, an ecm port on the new fangled lawn mowers?
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Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2022 at 11:00am
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Your right Thad.... I tried to GOOGLE it several times as you added more info... Seems like Honda and CUB are pretty Stingy with their access to wire diagrams. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2022 at 11:43am
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what 's the cub model ? I'll ask MTD Canada for the wiring I'm super HAPPY it's 'up and running' and 'curious like my cat' to see how/why the relay makes it work. ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: JeremiahGaines
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2022 at 6:25am
Yeah, I agreed with you. I googled it but still my hands are empty :( Do you want to write an essay about religion and are seeking for a website where you can obtain free essay samples? As a result, I suggest https://www.topessaywriting.org/samples/religion" rel="nofollow - visit the website , where you may get examples of free essays about religion.
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