All the electronics that drive all those special added for comfort toys in the options packages are failing AT HIGH RATES, the dealers cannot access the parts as the new machines use the same parts and the manufacturers cannot get enough to finish the new lines.

WHY?  Why did the consumer NEED this added trash?  Why does a Dump Truck need a Climate Control or Suspension computer control system?  Why did CAN-BUS become the go to for everything including tail lights and turn signals when a Fuse on a wire or a simple flasher worked FINE?  Farm tractors that sit on dealer yards, bought but unusable as will not shift or engine will only idle or the pto will not electronically engage, all due to electronics wizardry to take the place of a linkage rod or cable or just simple systems.

Did the Consumer Require or did the Manufacturer decide for us?

 But after you drove one with the header lift switch in the hydro handle. It was a real let down to run something less. But then I sat a day waiting for a tech to come fix it so header would go down again. I believe it was a spring gone bad on a bee size check ball in the hydraulic valve. The tech knew what he was looking for, and 5 minutes and a magnet and away the MH went again. But he had done a week or what ever at AC combine school.

The beginning of common sense farmer mechanic may not be enough to keep the machine running.

Most people generally buy what they're TOLD to buy.. 'keeping up with the Joneses', TV commercials, peer pressure, media hype. Very few just buy what they NEED.

Manufactures want to please shareholders, more money for them selling 100K cars then 24K cars...

Vocational Equipment, that which may not run loaded more than 50% of the time are the death of warranty expenses.  They generate repeat occurrences where to gain coverage enough to pay those warranties the machine prices go up drastically.  Machines sitting awaiting parts do not cost a dealership or manufacturer, non productive time becomes a pestilence expense most farms and trucking companies cannot afford.

re: a company would come along, build simple inexpensive stuff, and sell it like hotcakes.

Apple Iphones. Less than $50 in real cost to make, Could sell for $100, make  $50, sell for $1000, make $950 ! It's all about the bottom line

Lotteries, what sells more tickets, 50 , 1 million prizes or ONE $50 million winner. All about profit and greed

Energy control. 3 decades ago my energy control system was saving clients 30+% of their true energy costs for 5% of the savings. Feds  shut us down,costing them too much lost money.

CANBUS is a horrible 'can of worms' layered in doodoo with zero REAL need for how it's done.

AllisFreak MN wrote: If everybody wants this new crap so bad then why is it that old 80's tractors, especially Deere's, have doubled in price? because many farmers want to get away from this computerized garbage.

Yes some people don't want or need that crap, but I think one of the biggest drivers of used value is new value.  Say you need a 140 hp 2wd tractor, a low hour used or new one is say 200K but you only can afford 80K, well if you don't need the bells and whistles you can pay say 60K on a older one have 20K for repairs or to put in your pocket and a few years back that new one was 100K so you couldn't justify 60K for a old used one but today you can and thus the price of used is pushed up. 

Major expenses eating at Consumer cost, eating at Contractor costs raising charges, leading to Dealers having to supply warranty repairs and NO they do not pay as well as Consumer Paid Repairs as Manufacturers tighten that knot pretty hard and finally Manufacturing where this all transpired as to adding those 'Expected' warranty repairs into the machine cost the Contractor pays and the Consumer responds in kind in adjusted UP expense fees.

At some point this self Eating/Feeding Watermelon collapses in upon itself and dies.  Growing to feed, feeding to grow but never outside its own skin, never really gets bigger or stronger just feeds.

Was at the farm past weekend. Drove two tractors I grew up on. One 1964.......one 1973. Neither has a computer chip. Simple mechanical systems that still work just fine.

I remember running a Gleaner L in 1978.....and those rocker switches. That was how I disabled the combine so owner couldn't run it. If he did......he would leave it broke down after he either slugged it down or hit something with it running after dark. But those rocker switches didn't do anything more than the two way hydraulic valves used on the other machines I ran before that.

There is a lot to be said for simple, reliable, rock solid mechanical equipment.

There is a basic truth about the concept of people buying what they want, or need...  and one can argue that completely, however, there is one fact that fails it:

One cannot buy that which is not offered.

I challenge anyone to go out and buy a 'simple' piece of machinery now.

You're not going to find one 'new'...  as some have already noted, you'll only find 'used.

There are many things that networked processors, sensors, and motion-control automation can do, that make operation of all sorts of things more capable, and this falls into one of three categories-  first is 'productivity', the next is 'safety', and the third is 'convenience'.  Fancy controls that enhance productivity, are like header height control, terrain mapping, soil monitoring, etc., and they do help in producing more in a broad sense.  Enhancement of 'safety' can be anything from fire detection to overheat, overload, lubricant temperature or loss.  "Convenience" is stuff like constant reminder that your windshield washer fluid is low, or the ability to randomly screw up your electrically-adjustable seat anytime your wife calls you on the hands-free phone feature.

'Feature Bloat' is when something gets loaded with all sorts of solutions to problems that don't really exist.  It is, for lack of a better description, just like government...

Manufacturers wouldn't have done this kind of problem, if the cost of all sorts of cameras, microphones, thermal imaging gyroscopic hygrometers, and tiny single-use telemetry devices with irreplaceable batteries, if all those components weren't dirt-cheap.

They also wouldn't do it, if people refused to buy boated-out 'expected-life' crap.

Used to be a person Checked their tires during a Service, or asked when had a service performed, now its throw oil and a filter at the cars and Back to the Foray!!!!

Tbone95 wrote: As a rule, if a company makes a habit of building what people don’t want, they won’t be in business too long.

jaybmiller wrote: Most people generally buy what they're TOLD to buy.. 'keeping up with the Joneses', TV commercials, peer pressure, media hype. Very few just buy what they NEED. Manufactures want to please shareholders, more money for them selling 100K cars then 24K cars...

It's not what we want or anything else...it's all that is offered.

Also, I believe it's SOOoooo easy to put something in a CHIP that will make this piece of equipment fail at such and such a date/time.  Then the bill to LOOK at it is more than buying a NEW one..... 

NOTHING is built to last anymore.  It can't be,,,,,,,,if they did that, they'd be out of business soon enough.  It's all about REPLACING rather than fixing...

It's all about the $$$$$

Oh Yeah,,,,,,when was the last time someone from ANY company came out and asked YOU what you wanted??  I have yet to see anyone breaking down my door.

Let's make it better than the old so they'll buy it...... kind of like how they decided that the color of a car was pointed toward women.  They don't see a manufacturer......they see how pretty it is.

We don't get any input,,,, only a choice.

Can buy Patch panels for front doors, rear half doors are NLA so would have to opt into Scrapper Doors from??TX, CA, AZ  and then ship them in For ?$$$$$?  Looked to a Whole Cab, nothing older than 08 which does NOT interchange for Dash, HVAC and internals or harness bulkhead connection holes, interior parts would not swap adding MORE expense.  

So can still get cab corner and inner rocker patch panels does no good without the rear doors..  Put in call to body shop owner here that we are friends with, he had same dilemma as to even foreign made replacements.  So tired and old will have to be disposed of as a Parts Truck, bud of mine in OK was wanting it for his Nephew but that may be out as that boy has gotten seriously stupid AGAIN on drugs.  Thinking may end up being driven into Salvage lot for what can give me for it when time comes.

DM...did a quik googling.... first 'hit' I went to...

https://raybuck.com/panels/ford/1999-2010-ford-super-duty/1999-2010-ford-super-duty-door-panels/" rel="nofollow - https://raybuck.com/panels/ford/1999-2010-ford-super-duty/1999-2010-ford-super-duty-door-panels/

are these what you need ??? if not, seems newer doors may fit as those parts good for several years.

So far price tag to get the body structurally sound is looking like $7-9 Grand, without Paint or any hidden issues.  Then Still have to assemble the whole works and keep that 7.3 as well the auto trans and 4wd working.  DEEP in thoughts right now as truck outright sales is just at $7000 as is.

One way to look at it  is...

...can YOU actually BUY a similar truck for $10 K, or even $15K ??

While I'm in a position that I can afford to buy a brand new F150 XLT fancy machine(even a battery powered one) I LIKE my old ride. A '97 F150 XLT with about 70K miles on it. Yes it needs some 'fixin up', but I can toss $1K every year, heck 2K every year for the next 2 decades and STILL be ahead moneywise. Big bonus is NOT having to deal with all that fancy computer KRAP and 'gadgets'.

Yeah I sat 'on the fence' for about  a year, decided to KEEP and fix my truck. You should write down on paper what it needs and costs  in column 'A' then what replacement truck will cost in column 'B'.

So, at 2800 miles per year, you ain't exactly what I would call a typical vehicle conumer.  No wonder ya' got all that money!  What ya' going to do, take it with ya?

Funny thing is, I remember in '97 when guys griped about all the new stuff on vehicles!!!

re: what I would call a typical vehicle consumer.

hmm, looking back I've had it and from memory...

86 F150, 77 F100,67 stang fb, 67 stang conv,67 stang conv(yeah 2),76 cj5,75 cj5,73 cj5,78 cherokee, 57 willys pu, 58 willys stnwgn,57 willys sed del,56 chev sedan del,58 willy pu,68 dart,73 jeep commando,76 ? mustang,85 toy van, 72 honda cb125, honde cb450-2,cb450-4,yam xt225...probably a couple I've missed.

While living in 3br apt, had 7 of them lic and ins ......

..sigh, I miss the good ol' dayze !

TBone has pointed out, more than once on this thread, and rightly so, economics 101, market (demand and competition), determines selling price, not cost.

No one manufactures over the road tractors...well Mack may be the exception. Pete, KW, etc assemble trucks from off the shelf parts and/or subassemblies. And, many that are produced are to customer specs. That may explain, at least in part, the spaghetti bowl of wires and cables in new trucks. The CAN BUS does save weight/cost on the passenger vehicle fleet, results may vary elsewhere.

A lot of what we see on new vehicles that add cost and complexity, air bag, intelligent valve stems, side lights, occupant restraints, daylight headlights, side marker lights, pollution controls, right side mirrors, etc result from Federal regulation.

Air-conditioning actually increases fuel milage. So, I think that is why I insist on air-conditioning in my vehilcles.....ya, I'm saving fuel. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

And the concert quality stereo system, well that is a necessary safety system! If I turn that up, I cannot hear all the horns beeping at me, so I avoid potential road rage situations. And the power windows? well, necessary to quicker response to those horn honkers I DO happen to hear! Power steering, and Power brakes....well I think they speak for themselves. Upgraded engine package? The better to intimidate the little foreign 'roller skates' with the fart can exhausts. Oh, and the marker light package? to be seen, of course, and besides when I slide down out of the cab, it makes me look like I am driving a big truck, adds to the swagger! real important

No 'Need' or essential purpose except to over complicate the machines where requires SPECIAL tooling and Access Codes that ONLY the Dealers are allowed (Right to Repair Laws are crushing that), it also delineates Specialty Components ONLY available thru a Dealer or Manufacturer leading to where we are now, Dealer Lots PACKED with Warranty repairs to these elaborate garbage piles that will not run as the electronics will not speak to each other with limited parts resources causing further loadings, cars and light trucks are headed that way, Farm Equipment has been there awhile.