WC won't start hot
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18385
Printed Date: 07 Feb 2025 at 12:04am
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Topic: WC won't start hot
Posted By: AaronSEIA
Subject: WC won't start hot
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2010 at 8:32pm
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Haven't had the chance to check for spark, but it will not start when hot or really even warm. 35 with a hand crank and all I get is blisters and tired. I'm thinking it's something in the mag. It was rebuilt 10 years ago when I put the tractor back together. Anyone here want to fix it for me? I'm no good with mags. Or is it something simple that is probably wrong. Again, no good with mags.
AaronSEIA
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Replies:
Posted By: Alberta Phil
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2010 at 8:34pm
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Sounds like a bad coil. Better take it off and send it to Steve @ B&B.
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Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2010 at 8:42pm
Aaron, you need a guy like my sister in laws dad. He would grab each plug wire one at a time to find out if there was spark and to what cylinders. If she runs good when hot but just won't start, it might not be the coil in the mag. Maybe timing not just right?? Does the Mag impulse click when you crank it over by hand?If it was worked over 10 years ago have you checked or set the valve lash since then. My 45 ran pretty good for years but was finicky starting. I had the head off to mill the manifold surface so I went ahead and milled the bottom of the head and ground the valves. It made a huge difference in how she started.
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http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2010 at 9:24am
When hot, and being cranky, does it respond to a shot of something flammable in the carb? If so, check for vacuum leaks in the manifold... either gasket, or a crack somewhere that's opening up when she's hot... if not, try raising the carb float level just a smidgen.
Last one I found like that had a crack nicely hidden in the upper back of the intake manifold, when cold, it sealed fine (and of course, I used the choke), and once changed, it has been a two-flip blip ever since.
And some fascinating notes for guys that're really interested in Orange. The chamber design here... meaning, both the head, and the piston, AND the port/runner shape, makes the the Allis engine run well 'lean'... great for fuel economy when loaded less than 100%. It takes more localized heat energy to ignite a very lean mixture, than a rich one, so lean-burning cylinders will drop off first. Allis's engineers did a really good job with the design here- the incoming charge spins right in front of the spark plug, so it'll light off well under most conditions. The AC fours couldn't beat the two-cylinder Deere in the Nebraska fuel economy tests under full dyno load... but they'd clean house on 'em at three-quarter and less throttle. (My Grandpa gave me a stern lesson on that one back when we were raking hay...). The 2-cylinder, at full snot, was very efficient at generating horsepower per hour per gallon... but at partial throttle conditions and light loads, the big whomper was substantially thirsty. The Allis's fuel consumption drops rapidly when throttled back under light load.
Honda actually employed the same concept in their CVCC engines of the late 70's and 80's, by actually running lean around the periphery of the chamber, but rich enough to fire reliably close to the plug... anyone that had a Honda CVCC eventually experienced a condition where the extra carb throat or dedicated manifold passage wasn't flowing right, and the darned thing wouldn't run worth a hoot, on account of the entire cylinder running lean. A hot engine accellerates the evaporation, so Honda actually 'stratified' the charge by keeping the 'rich' passage cooler while the 'lean' passage ran hotter. When it worked, it worked well, but those times when it didn't... well, it was frustrating. Ran more reliably than an Austin-Healey, though.
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Posted By: AaronSEIA
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2010 at 6:39pm
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Doesn't respond to ether at all. That makes me think mag without even checking for spark. I'm gonna check to make sure, then see what Steve can do for me.
AaronSEIA
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Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2010 at 7:39pm
Aaron, will it die when it warms up? If it runs OK up to temperature and stays running but just won't start after shutting it off, I don't believe it would be the mag unless it really warms up after shut down and the heat gets to the mag.
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http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Posted By: AaronSEIA
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2010 at 8:11pm
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It'll idle all day long after being worked and idle at what sounds like an idle so low it should die. Like I said, I need to check for spark when hot, just looking for ideas.
AaronSEIA
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Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2010 at 8:07am
run a quart of transmission fluid through the next tank of gas and see if it helps . had a 351 ford truck engine with stuck rings would do the same thing . couldnt beg it to start hot. acted like the timing was advanced way to high but wasnt .
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people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra
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Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2010 at 9:40am
I would check cold compression and then check it again when hot and won't start.
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1957 WD45 dad's first AC
1968 one-seventy
1956 F40 Ferguson
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