B Backrest
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17918
Printed Date: 07 Feb 2025 at 6:03pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: B Backrest
Posted By: Charlie175
Subject: B Backrest
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 1:32pm
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For fun today I drove my B to work (it's only a mile) and a gentleman stopped in talking to me about it. He stated that they had a factory option of a pad that went on the backrest and he has made a few of them for replicas. I can't find any info on this, do you guys know? ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Replies:
Posted By: GlenninPA
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 3:29pm
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I had heard that was true for the first 5000 or so, but I have not seen it in a parts book or seen one that convinced me it was true. Would love to see if there was an engineering drawing of such an animal.
Guy Fay and Andy Kraushaar mention it in the book "Original Allis-Chalmers".
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Posted By: morton(pa)
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 3:41pm
| Sorry, as far as I'm concerned, never such a thing was produced. I have a parts book that has everything that was ever made or put on for the B, C, and IB. This includes every single variant of these models you can think of, and there is no B back rest. Maybe dealers put them on, but as far as I'm concerned, there never was one from the factory. Sure would have been nice though! |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 3:55pm
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So no "Deluxe" seat then.... ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 3:55pm
| only thing listed in the Allis Parts manual is the steel backrest. for both the B and C |
Posted By: GlenninPA
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 4:01pm
| I do not have an early B DPN, only a modern one and a copy of a manual that BillP SEMI sent me. I will have to look closer at that one, because it is from around 1942 I think. |
Posted By: Sandknob
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 4:05pm
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I have a 38 B that had a padded backrest that looked like the one in Guy Fays book, but its long gone now. It had wood backing and "vinyl" (same material as the seat) covering.
Adam
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Posted By: GBACBFan
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 5:04pm
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When I first look at this pic of the farmer on this early B, it looked like a pad on the back, but when I blew it up it looked more like a rag wrapped around it. What do you guys think? What ever the back is, he sure looks serious about his work!!!
 Circa early 1940's ------------- "The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - Mark Twain |
Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 6:21pm
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For what it's worth. The seat backs on both of our Bs were padded when I was growing up. Not a factory option if there was such pad. Dad just wraped a burlap bag around it several times and tied it in place with twine. The serious B driver above had a "Special" seat cover too. |
Posted By: GreenOrange
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 6:40pm
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Padded seat part # 207354 used up to serial 12016. The early '39 in the linked picture shows it. -John http://www.allischalmers.com/new/forum/uploads/24/Allis-Chalmers1939modelBtractor.jpg - http://www.allischalmers.com/new/forum/uploads/24/Allis-Chalmers1939modelBtractor.jpg |
Posted By: CJohnS MI
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 7:06pm
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The B shown at the end if this thread: http://allischalmers.com/new/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17705&PN=2&title=oldie-pics - http://allischalmers.com/new/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17705&PN=2&title=oldie-pics sure looks like it has a padded backrest too. |
Posted By: morton(pa)
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 7:20pm
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Looks like Burlap or plywood to me. Ken....Care to enlighten us as to what it really was?
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Posted By: Rog(NCWI)
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 8:21pm
| I have a piece of literature of advertising a 40 combine pulled by a model B and it shows a wooden back rest on the seat. Wish I could post a picture but can not. |
Posted By: GlenninPA
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 8:26pm
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Rog(NCWI),
What piece of 40 literature is it? I have a bunch of 40 stuff, maybe it is one I have and can take a picture of. Can you describe the literature?
Glenn
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Posted By: BrettPhillips
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 9:05pm
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GreenOrange beat me to it. I have a fairly early "Parts Book and Operating Directions for Allis-Chalmers Model B Tractor", Form TPL-28H that distinctly shows the cushioned seat back (Part No. 207354) on page 49. It was part of seat group 280850, and was discontinued with tractor B-12016. Interestingly, there was more than just the seat back that was different from the later style steel back rest. The seat frame (205692) and the back rest springs (205694) were different, but the bottom cushion remained the same (205693). This isn't the first time that I've run into changes in AC equipment that are not documented by later parts books, so I guess the moral is "never say never"...
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GreenOrange wrote:Posted By: Chalmersbob
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 9:10pm
| vinyl is also wrong for the seat. So if the back rest matched the seat, they were both wrong. Bob |
Posted By: GlenninPA
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 9:23pm
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So Brett.....
When did they change the seat frame and springs? Does it give a serial break?
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Posted By: BrettPhillips
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 9:39pm
| The break is at tractor number B-12016 as GreenOrange mentioned above. Then there was another seat frame change at tractor number 52718, but everything else remained the same. |
Posted By: Brad MI
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 9:48pm
| TPL-28B "Model B Serial # 101and up" is my earliest B book. It clearly shows a padded seat back in the seat assembly, part #20734. I have tractor B450 in the shop and it's what I believe to be pretty original. It does not have the padded seat back, it has the same metal seat back as all my other B tractors. I have never seen a B with a padded back like the one in the parts book, including any of the Wakashaw B's Ive seen. My B450 also has a cast clutch pedal rather than a welded pedal like most early B's, but it is a different casting than any other I've seen. Just another early production B mystery I guess. How about a radiator curtain, anyone have an original example of those? |
Posted By: Brian Ahart
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 9:57pm
I like this Purina padded seat back circa 10/39: ------------- A-C Weight ID reference and other goodies at http://www.brianahart.net" rel="nofollow - brianahart.net |
Posted By: pumpkin man
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 9:58pm
| It could be OIL CLOTH it was used for table cloths on the dinner table REMBER WW2 was just starting no one ever hered of vinyl then . |
Posted By: GlenninPA
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 9:58pm
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I've never seen remnants of a padded seat back, but have a couple '38 s that had no seat back at all. I will have to compare the frames and springs on them to a couple early '39 s I have.
I'm contemplating buying one of the first 10 Allis made B's (non-Waukesha) and if the padded seat back is correct, would like to figure out how to reproduce one.
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Posted By: Dale H. ECIL
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 10:04pm
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The 1937 Wakashaw B did have a wooden seat back and heavier springs than the later B's.
------------- Allis Chalmers Museum, Paris, Il.http:// www.allischalmersmuseum.com 217-275-3428 |
Posted By: BrettPhillips
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2010 at 7:04am
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Here is a scan of the page referred to above:
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Posted By: Sandknob
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2010 at 7:10am
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I was just saying that the back rest was the same material as the seat. I don't know what the seat is made out of, but it was the standard material.
Adam
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Posted By: Sandknob
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2010 at 7:12am
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I wish I still had mine, I'd post a picture on here, but it was obviously the one that is in the drawings above.
Adam
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Posted By: craigreavley
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2010 at 10:03am
I was given a 38 B from the original owner, and It had the remnants of a plywood backrest. I asked him if he had the original metal backrest, and he said it came from the dealer with a padded plywood backrest. I have a photo of the day I dug it out of the back of the shed. The motor was stuck. After some newer tires, and rims, a mag rebuild, and a good soaking, it broke loose. The funny thing is that it used to smoke like a house of matches, but after a couple of years of driving it around at tractor shows, and using it as much as possible it doesnt smoke at all. Go figure. I guess a stuck ring may have finally loosened, or a valve guide seated, I dont know, but we did leave the paint alone and just use it in its work clothes.
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Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2010 at 2:26pm
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Interesting B seat drawings. The seat cushion itself being taller in front than in the rear casts a new light on how a real seat B cushion should look.
Gary's 38 B751 , that I helped him restore, had what was left of a wood seat back on it when he got it. Close examination if it showed it was in fact a oak chair back. It had a row of holes in the bottom edge where the wood seat back support dowels would have fit into it.
The seat back supports on the Bs before B12016 were wider and had a different part number than the later narrow supports. I'm beginning to think that as the early padded wood seat backs deteriorated they were replaced mostly by the later steel backs.
I'm going to go out on a limb. After seeing the above drawings I conclude the Bs prior to B 12016 with the wide back support springs had wood backs with padding when new.
The B pictured above with the disk plow is a early 38 with the wide back supports. I think the seat back under the wrapper looks like it could be wood. It's a bit hard to tell for sure but the rear rims look to me like split rims also. By the shape of the clamps and how they fit in the groove is a dead giveaway.
I wish I had the above info on the seat back when Gary and I restored B751.
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Posted By: BrettPhillips
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2010 at 3:58pm
| It's not too late... |
Posted By: GlenninPA
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2010 at 8:56pm
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+1 on what Brett said....
winter project?
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Posted By: Rog(NCWI)
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2010 at 9:26pm
| GlenninPA,I have looked for that article about the 40 combine pulled by a Model B with a wooden back rest and can not find it. I have it somewhere with my Allis literature but where? Sorry I can't put my finger on it. |
Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2010 at 11:31pm
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Back to the AC B Drawings posted by Brett. The wheel, tire and Hub detail.
Are there any drawings of earlier wheel and hub details of the cast hub/wheel and the rivited wheel/hub? Do all the early drawings show a single rib 15" tire?
Miller Tire was going to reproduce the single rib 15 if demand would justify the expense. Lots of them single rib tires must have been OEM on early Bs.
I got a chance to zoom in on most all B&W pictures of the seat back on the 39 B bought new and used on our farm. It's steel. All the old pictures show it wraped with burlap for padding even when it was very new. Ken
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Posted By: GreenOrange
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 4:31pm
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By the serials, only the first 216 1939 B's had the padded seat back... the other 21,000+ '39 B's had the steel back. -John |
Posted By: GlenninPA
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 9:42pm
Do you suppose this one is an accurate reproduction?
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Posted By: john2189
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 9:55pm
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i kinda like the steel back on my B's. The vibration they make feels good on my old aching back.... ------------- '41 Allis B '45 Allis B '49 Farmall Cub '72 IH Cub |