720 Not Starting
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Garden Tractors
Forum Description: A great place to discuss the Simplicity and Allis Chalmers Garden Models
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=176486
Printed Date: 06 May 2024 at 1:10am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 720 Not Starting
Posted By: Dave (NE)
Subject: 720 Not Starting
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2020 at 8:58pm
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I was using my 720 yesterday, driving it around pulling a yard trailer. Starting, stopping, etc. Shut it off at the shop to get something. Went out and it would not turn over or anything. Messed with various things for half an hour then hooked up the battery charger to this only eight month old battery. Turned over and started. Drove it to the shed and pulled the battery figuring it had somehow gone bad. Hauled the battery in to the store today where it had been purchased, as it has a 12 month replacement policy. Tested out good. Brought it home. Cleaned all the connections including the ground to the frame. Nothing when I tried to start it. Connected the battery charger, it turns over and starts. What is left to try to get the battery to work? Thanks for your help. Dave
------------- Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain. |
Replies:
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2020 at 9:59am
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Put a meter on the battery and see what voltage it reads, should 12-13v. Connect the cables and take another reading to see if it changes. If possible, have someone turn the key to see what happens to the voltage. Either your battery has a bad cell when the starter is applied or your voltage regulator is bad. My bet is on a bad cell in the battery. Ive seen new batteries go bad but test well at a parts store on their tester. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: Dave (NE)
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2020 at 11:04am
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Yeah, we did put a voltage meter on the battery. It was registering just over 13 volt. My bet is also that it is a bad battery. I don't have another one around with side terminals, or I would put it in to test it out. I'm thinking of waiting until they go on sale again and just picking up a new battery. ------------- Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain. |
Posted By: Dave (NE)
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2020 at 11:05am
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Ironically, now it won't even turn the engine over with the charger on it. Maybe the battery has gone far enough bad that it will register as such when I take it back. ------------- Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain. |
Posted By: mnoonan-NEWI
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2020 at 1:31pm
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Dave, it could be your ignition switch one of your pto switches going bad or a loose wire on one of them. ------------- AC CA, Ferguson TO-20, Ford NAA, M-M BG, AC #3 Mower, SC Plow, PH Digger, AC 720's with Ark 700 loader & Brantly Backhoe, "Mini B" w/flathead Ford V8 |
Posted By: Dave (NE)
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2020 at 2:39pm
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I initially thought maybe the starter button, but after getting it to turn over and on with the battery charger, my attention turned to the battery and cables. I discovered one of my vehicles has a battery with the side terminals available. I'm going to pull it out and try that battery to see if it works. ------------- Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain. |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2020 at 2:55pm
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Mike I thought about the pto switches but he said once he put the charger on it would turn over. Could be one of the switches now since it wont turn over. Throw the switches back and forth to see if that makes a difference. I had that happen before. Good suggestion Mike ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: Dave (NE)
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 2:26pm
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Well, pulled the battery out of the old truck. It is 800 CCA and readily turning over and starting the truck engine, so should have been good enough for the tractor. Hooked it up. Turned the key on. Push the starter button and just the click, click of the starter trying to go. Lights will turn on. Fuel pump is going. But no turning over the engine. Tried a different ground cable. Still the same. Would try a different positive cable, but can't access the starter to get one off/on. Tried messing with the PTO switches, but nothing. I am baffled! ------------- Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain. |
Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 8:11pm
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Could be the PTO safety switch. Mine is touchy sometimes as well. There is also a safety switch for the hydrostat so it will only start in the neutral position. There is also a 30 amp circuit breaker at the front of the engine on the right side. Mine was rusted up on the inside and prevented starting a few years ago. Guarantee it is one of these 3 items.
------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080 |
Posted By: mnoonan-NEWI
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 8:39pm
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Both PTO switches must be in the off position before it will start. The click you hear may be one of the electric clutches clicking on. Also the neutral lockout switch must be in the neutral sweet spot. ------------- AC CA, Ferguson TO-20, Ford NAA, M-M BG, AC #3 Mower, SC Plow, PH Digger, AC 720's with Ark 700 loader & Brantly Backhoe, "Mini B" w/flathead Ford V8 |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2020 at 9:10pm
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If it has the original Starter motor in it, it could be the Starter itself. The Starter is down underneath the engine, and it gets mighty hot down in there. Could also be the connection at the Starter also. If the thing is trying to start, that means power is making it to the Starter, so I wouldn't think any switches are bad. To me, it could be the Battery cable connection at the Starter motor or the motor itself.... HTH Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: Dave (NE)
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2020 at 9:05am
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Both PTO switches are in the off position. What is the PTO safety switch? What is the hydrostat safety switch? I'll look for that 30 amp circuit breaker at the front of the engine. What is the neutral lockout switch? How can I get to the starter to check it out and check out the battery cable to it? Thanks for all of this information and looks like I have some more checking out of things to do. Dave ------------- Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain. |
Posted By: mnoonan-NEWI
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2020 at 4:18pm
There is very good information in the service manual on diagnosing the Starter Circuit. If you haven't looked at that, it may be a very good resource for you. ------------- AC CA, Ferguson TO-20, Ford NAA, M-M BG, AC #3 Mower, SC Plow, PH Digger, AC 720's with Ark 700 loader & Brantly Backhoe, "Mini B" w/flathead Ford V8 |
Dave (NE) wrote:Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2020 at 8:28pm
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Neutral switch for the hydra is under the tractor. You can unplug it and place a jumper to see if the switch is bad. I always press in the clutch in case the hydro isn’t in the neutral position. Turn the key to see if the starter engages. If it does then the switch may be bad if the connections are good. The only way to get to the starter is by pulling the engine. I ended up replacing the starter on mine because it kept giving me issues. Best $80 I spent. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2020 at 8:34pm
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Dave, you mention you turn the key and then press the starter button? Ive never seen a 720 with this configuration. It should be just turning the key to start. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: Dave (NE)
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2020 at 9:36pm
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My 720 is set up with the key and has a separate push starter button. I've read that some of the 720's were adapted with this set up after market. Anyway, to start the tractor, I need to turn the key on then push the starter button. ------------- Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain. |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2020 at 6:59pm
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Ok, just wanna make sure we are talking about a 720. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: Dave (NE)
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2020 at 9:51pm
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Yes, 720. ------------- Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain. |
Posted By: Dave (NE)
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2020 at 11:47am
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Appears the issue was the starter. Pulled the engine. Took the starter in to the electronic repair place. They replaced the brushes and bearing along with putting on a new solenoid. Have to get things back together now. ------------- Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Mark Twain. |