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1980’s FA 11b junk?

Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=175917
Printed Date: 28 Mar 2024 at 8:02am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: 1980’s FA 11b junk?
Posted By: HOFarm
Subject: 1980’s FA 11b junk?
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2020 at 7:20pm
Ive seen how the old AC hd-11’s can be a parts hunt. How bout the 80’s FA 11b, i cant seem to find a good parts site. Can Case or CNH get parts for these? Should one avoid these dozer even if for a good price. Looking at one of these possible over a case 1450. 



Replies:
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2020 at 7:25pm
MINNPAR is about the best access to what is available, CNH dealers that will go thru the effort CAN access some residuals still in system but these tractors are now forty plus years old with parts sourcing depleting as we speak.  Rails and UC is Unobtanium USA now, can Mod it for Cat Rollers and 6.91 Pitch Cat rails but is a Job.  Engine parts trans parts, finals, just not much that has not been picked over.  If would have one and have to got to that level of modification would be better off buying a old Cat.


Posted By: HOFarm
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2020 at 7:42pm
I appreciate that! Thank you for the insight and info! The problem im finding is a cat cost twice if not three times as much for a 40 year old 35k lbs machine. Like the finding something cheaper than that to use on our farm.


Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 3:47am
Been there done that and spent as much keeping it moving than had I bought a parts common machine in better shape to start.

Biggest concern became not the small parts I could interchange to industrial styles but the final drive gears, pumps that I had to convert the drive mechanisms, the fuel injection system no one would touch as no pieces and engine parts NLA beyond gaskets, for the subsystems that made it all functional.  My own is gone, had it really functional had a severe failure repaired that and sent it packing as had used up the last known repair part for the brakes.  Could have re-engineered replacement parts but expense was driving me away from that.  All too much was/is unique to Allis that is no longer made and would require a design change to repair.


Posted By: HOFarm
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 5:12am
Might be able to pick this up less than $10k. Blade looks to be off a IH dozer. Been in a barn for 15 years. “Recent” drive rebuild. New batteries. Hour meter doesnt work. I can try and up load other pictures.


Posted By: HOFarm
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 5:15am


Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 5:38am
Already see a problem, Right Side upper rear roller is drooping, has a failed bearing, NLA for roller or internals.

The ONLY way I would buy another FA Construction series would be if all the UC was Newly installed, Unused and that will not happen.

Has a IH Blade on it, not certain why that had to be swapped as blades can be rebuilt.  Again these machines will have parts availability issues you may not be able to contend with.


Posted By: HOFarm
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 5:41am
i agree! Look at the left side how the blade is attached to the UC frame... looks like the IH blade is smaller on that pin.


Posted By: HOFarm
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 6:07am
Again, thank you for your input. Definitely dont need another headache at all. I dont mind old machine if parts are easy to get, but easter egg hunts are terrible with work is pilling up. What would a machine like this be worth to you?


Posted By: farmtoybuilder
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 10:31am
Buy a Cat if you have work to do! and parts are available! 



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5 different TT-10's,5 TT-18's Terra Tigers,B-10,2 B-207's,B-110,2 B-112's,HB-112,B-210,B-212,HB212,2 Scamp's & Homilite T-10. Still hunting NICE HB-112 & anything Terra Tiger & Trailers for them.   


Posted By: HOFarm
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 12:03pm
i agree now. Done some more research on these FA’s and im thinking they are a head ache. Would a d6 be about the same size as a 11B?


Posted By: Eric B
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 1:31pm
[QUOTE=farmtoybuilder]Buy a Cat if you have work to do! and parts are available! 

Best advice on this thread!!! Clap

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Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!


Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 2:15pm
Almost bigger D6C to 11B


Posted By: Mactractor
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2020 at 9:01pm
You will be tearing down the Cat to do major servicing just as you would with any brand of crawler, so make sure you get all the specialized hydraulic pullers necessary to that with Cat tractors unless you want to pay the Cat agent techs to do it for you. You don't need all that tooling to service the Allis tractor. You will learn from expense and experience that the tractor you photographed is not 'JUNK' at all. There are a number of us on here that run them, and we did not arrive with the last shower of rain. We have many thousands of hours both running and wrenching on crawlers. I think you picked the wrong forum to use the word junk with them. Go back to the forum that told you they were junk, and get 'expert' advise there on what you should buy.


Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 4:37am
Sorry Mac as to being negative on here, but dealt with close to eight years of fussing, floundering, modifying pieces and parts salvaging used stuff where the stockpiles are dwindling here.  Rails Rollers, pins bushings and other hard parts are just becoming non existent in the states.  Can have pieces freighted in from Asia or EU or even AU but cost prohibitive as rates are near as much as components and the machines that use them failing across the country to be scrapped rather than salvaged as rode out slick.

No Fuel injection pieces for AMBAC PSB, tender old systems that are becoming ever more age frail do fail and no place to acquire adequate pieces to fix here.  I have been educated to pick my battles, with FA in the US is a problem Orphan anymore.


Posted By: HOFarm
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 10:48am
I was asking if they were junk. Maybe you failed to notice the “?” on this thread. Notice most the discussion is about parts and how hard they are to find. I think we have addressed only that. Pretty sure no one has come out and said they were/are junk. 


Posted By: Mactractor
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 12:48pm
In that case, there was no need for you to use the word?


Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 1:53pm
Not so much 'Junk' as Job Security maybe?


Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 8:04pm
Now we are on my favorite topic- Allis Chalmers HD11 Series B.  This is a 100 percent Allis Chalmers product- no need to think about FIAT!  That one looks like a late 72 or early 73 model, judging by changes made to ROPS and front hardnose during that time.  Robert Bosch injection pump, 140 HP- competed directly with Cat D6C in that time period.  The best part about them has already been mentioned- extremely cheap horsepower, and if you aren't afraid to get your hands dirty, it's a match made in heaven.  Might want a parts machine though... 


Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 8:10pm
As to the carrier roller- these machines had a weakness there- shafts on the carrier rollers were too small and subject to bending in tough conditions, especially if there was mud or debris packing in the tracks to the point where the track release would be needed.  There have been various mods to deal with this problem, most commonly re-working the tower to take a Cat D5 roller (heavier shaft).  Sadly parts are getting scarce, but only makes it easier for the buyer to make a deal.


Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 8:25pm


Posted By: Steve allis dozer
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2020 at 7:14am
Is that your cab heater the black hose on the bonnet ?


Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2020 at 9:34am
Friend of mine should have parts for these HD11


Posted By: Tad Wicks
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2020 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by DMiller DMiller wrote:

Sorry Mac as to being negative on here, but dealt with close to eight years of fussing, floundering, modifying pieces and parts salvaging used stuff where the stockpiles are dwindling here.  Rails Rollers, pins bushings and other hard parts are just becoming non existent in the states.  Can have pieces freighted in from Asia or EU or even AU but cost prohibitive as rates are near as much as components and the machines that use them failing across the country to be scrapped rather than salvaged as rode out slick.

No Fuel injection pieces for AMBAC PSB, tender old systems that are becoming ever more age frail do fail and no place to acquire adequate pieces to fix here.  I have been educated to pick my battles, with FA in the US is a problem Orphan anymore.



My uncle had an early B that had the  International Harvester 100 series pump used on the 300 and 400 series diesel engines.


Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2020 at 12:52pm
The AMBAC style did not remain on them long swapping to Inline Bosch style IIRC in 79 or 80 on the B series.  Looked at a fire damaged 11B near Mexico MO a year back was a early variant or had an engine swap where was AMBAC equipped.


Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2020 at 8:15pm
The black hose is my "redneck heater"- made out of misc. plumbing parts


Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2020 at 9:06pm
Have you suggested that to KOO?



Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2020 at 10:10am
All may become a moot point as our elected officials change here.  EPA is set to gain a decisive if not controlling aspect to what machines are allowed to stay serviceable due to emissions levels.  The 'New' camp is more entuned to CARB guidelines as to rule making for Older machinery.


Posted By: HOFarm
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2020 at 2:20am
getting my hands dirty is definitely not an issue and something i enjoy with these type of machine. I am bummed about the lack of parts. I dont mind tearing into rebuilding almost anything on our pc220-3, but i have a Komatsu dealer 30 mins away and several other parts dealers local. Id love to pick this thing up cheap for our farm to reclaim more pastures with, im afraid it will become an expensive deer stand with lack of parts. However im new to AC and FA so maybe i got it wrong, maybe i should buy it. Guy down the road might sell his 77 Komatsu d65e, but for a lot more money :(


Posted By: HOFarm
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2020 at 2:23am
looks like your using it for what id want to use it for!!


Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2020 at 9:15pm
I saved that one from the scrapper- bought it in the fall of '17, it had spun a rod, undercarriage was completely shot, I rebuilt it with mostly used parts and put it to work the next summer.  Should turn over 900 hours tomorrow, all paid custom work for neighbors and friends- I don't have any land of my own.  Dad has a small farm, and has the exact same machine, we've put about 500 hours or less on that one in 8 years- his track chains still look like new.  Both of these machines have paid for themselves, I tore down another unit for parts, so we do have lots of extra parts.  I keep my eye out for NOS parts and buy the occasional piece I think I'll need.  If I use a part from my stock, I try to replace it.  I've re-powered two HD11s with N7 engines for other people.  
It would be nice to have new parts available, but then again, with the price tags a guy would probably be looking used anyway...  I know guys running old Cats that mostly buy used too...



Posted By: Orangeisgreat190
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2020 at 5:47am
You may want to try Crane and Tractor in Columbus, Ohio.  They had a huge surplus of parts for AC and FA crawlers.  It has been quite a few years since I have been there, so maybe they do not have the inventory they once did.  Might be worth a call to see what they have available for this machine and see parts prices from them if still available.  Their number is six one four- 443- zero 5 nine 4.  Hope this helps.


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2020 at 8:24pm
My brother had a 71  11B. We both had ran D6C's before. The Allis would out work the Cats.


Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 11:12am
I've never had a chance to compare it to D6C or D6D.  I work with a friend who used to have a D6H- it was definately a class higher than the 11.  It was the XL model with 185 Hp- and it would haul!  Now he has an older D7H, it will almost do double what the 11-B will.  We tried tandem pushing but the D7 is actually faster too, and the Cats keep a steadier pace- the speed of the Allis is very dependent on load.


Posted By: HOFarm
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 11:53am
what would you pay for the machine I got listed? Also thank you for your opinion. Seems like we both have the same interest. I dont mind doing a parts hunt if the initial cost is low enough. I am glad to hear a good review, appreciate it!


Posted By: HOFarm
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 11:54am
did yall clear all that with dozers? Very impressive. Will the keep those stumps windrowed like that or eventually burn?


Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 1:09pm
It will all burn eventually- sometimes the "locals" will go at the windrows with their chain saws for firewood.  It's probably not a good idea, with the price of carbon going up- maybe the new oil?  I just do what I'm told..Wink
I think 10K is a buy on these machines if everything still works and there's still enough undercarriage left to get some work done.  I figure machine rent at 60-70 dollars per hour, so, that would be 150 hours of work, plus its still worth scrap when you are done.
Things to check:
Fan drive bearings (in front of injection pump- these need to be replaced every so often)
Equalizer bar pin (lift the front of the tractor and see how much it slops- I use the condition of the equalizer bar to estimate hours on the machine, as the hour meter usually can't be trusted)
Final drive leaks- I wouldn't worry about seepage, but if it is pouring oil that is bad.  If final drive is over full oil is leaking in from steering clutches, or there is water in the housing.
Run the machine and see if it will pull right away- as the transmission clutches wear it can take a long time before they will lock up.
BOttom rollers- lift the machine with the blade and have a look for loose ones.
I've found that the ones with the Bosch pump start best with the throttle wide open...

Probably the IH blade was installed when they broke the push arms- very common on these, push arms were designed for 100 HP and 25000 pound machine, not 140 and 32000.


Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 3:38pm
Wouldn't any HD11 new enough to be a FiatAllis, have a Roosa/Stanadyne pump? The PSB went away in the late 60's I think. There's lots of listings in the Stanadyne Application guide with HD11's. 

-------------
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!


Posted By: Lazyts
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2020 at 5:29pm
HD11s went like this:
PSB from 1955 to 1967
Roosa Master 1968-71
Robert Bosch 1971-74
Roosa Master 1975-77 -also changed oil pan and oil pump configuration at this time (discontinued early 77)


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2020 at 5:51pm
My brothers 71 had the P pump. Horsepower increase was no challenge.



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