Farm Equipment - Studs got too short

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Studs got too short

Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17328
Printed Date: 05 Feb 2025 at 7:58pm
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Topic: Studs got too short

Posted By: powertech84
Subject: Studs got too short
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2010 at 7:36pm

I've finally collected all the pieces to put my 201 (wd ish) back together. Got the lower end all done, torqued the head studs into the block, went to put the head on, and the head covers most of the stud. Barely enough thread left to put a nut on, much less the washer. Any one else run into this before? Are the studs supposed to be left loose? Nothings changed, same block, same studs, same head. This one's kinda got me scratching my head. I must be missing something, hopefully someone can tell me what i'm doing wrong.

Replies:

Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2010 at 7:49pm

Sounds like somebody put it together wrong the last time. Studs for a WD and tall head of a 45. How tall is the head? Actually I don't know if the tall head takes longer studs just a thought.

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Posted By: powertech84
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2010 at 8:13pm

The engine i'm working on has never been apart before, been in the family since new. The head is exactly three inches thick, same as the head on my wc. Althought i cant guarantee the head on the wc is right.

Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2010 at 10:53pm

You don't usually torque studs to the bottoms of the holes. You run them in far enough to handle the load, leaving enough sticking through the head for the nuts. Originally the block end of the stud was oversize so it was a tight fit. Today you can achieve that with a couple drops of locktite. You only torgue to squeeze the head gasket between the head and the block.

Gerald J.

Posted By: kev/ont
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 5:55am

did you put the stud's in the block with the shorter set of threads into the block or the longer set. Makes a big difference as to how much stud is sticking out.

Posted By: powertech84
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 6:56am

I guess i'll have to break out the ruler and the loctite. Kinda seems like its defeating the point of a stud, but whatever it takes i guess. Thanks. Cant put them in upside down, threads are different.

Posted By: CJohnS MI
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 7:13am

powertech84 wrote:

I guess i'll have to break out the ruler and the loctite. Kinda seems like its defeating the point of a stud, but whatever it takes i guess. Thanks. Cant put them in upside down, threads are different.

Not too long ago, I reassembled a friends WD that was acquired in various buckets. Pulled all the studs to check deck flatness before putting on a fresh head. Had to double-nut AND use a "helper" pipe wrench to get some out

Reasonable ASSumption was to reverse process and double-nut again to run them down. Luckily for friend, I noticed that the studs were cutting new metal as I wound them down - trying to get them seated.

Here's the upshot: Studs meant to seated with torque will have either a shoulder, or a bottom in the threaded bore.

The studs are NOT shouldered, several places on the WD engine the threading goes right through into the water jacket, and the others are deep-bored. The studs are harder than the cast iron and will joyfully act as a shouldering tap, removng and spreading the cast iron as they continue to wind their way down.

You are on the right path - pull studs, run in loose, set head and measure the height to get nut & washer on - then use Loctite thread locker to get & keep correct height.

Additional: Studs and bolts tend to "pull" material up around the threaded hole, so a practice often recommended is to use a counter bore ( thing with a 45 degree cutter) or a large drill bit to "relieve" the pooched up metal. Even if there isn't any excess now, cutting that slight relief at the top of the hole helps prevent future stress cracks.

I am sure no such thing was done during manufacture, and that engine runs only a fraction of the stress a modern engine sees, but heck, its only time, and on our own stuff, we can invest a little more against the "what ifs".