Another AC story:)

I have been working on restoring a family 1949 model C that lived on Lopez Island in the San Juan islands of Washington State. In the late 60's it was moved to Port Townsend, Washington on the mainland and became non-operable. In the 1980's is was given away and the family lost track of it assuming it was scraped.

When I became part of the family I wanted to find it and restore it but figured it had indeed been scraped.  Well a few years ago a picture was found of it being loaded on a tow truck.  We contacted the guy who got it and low in behold he remembered the tractor. Of course our first question was what did he do with it???? He stated that he had sold it to a farmer only a few miles away from him.

With that news I made a mad dash over to the farmer who had brought it and well yes he still had the tractor:) The sad news was that he never got the tractor operating.  He had broken the engine open to work on it but after years in the barn he pulled it out into the pasture and it became a poesy bed of junk and briers. It has been sitting out for about 30 years with the engine block open to the elements. Needless to say I brought it off his hands very quickly:)

This tractor has had many stories told about it by the children who grew up with it so I wanted to find it and do a complete restoration back into operating condition (big eye syndrome).

Below is a picture of the C as I found it on the farm.

A close-up before starting work

Here are pictures at the start of the process.  First removing the sickle mower.

As I start to break it apart

Yes it is a rusty bucket.  I have used a lot of elbow grease, heat, and BK blaster to get it apart:)

http://public.fotki.com/DickL/" rel="nofollow - http://public.fotki.com/DickL/

Steve@B&B

BTW, when your ready for a wiring harness, or any electrical, stop by to see us via the internet.  We can fix ya up with lottsa' cool stuff....!

Read that as the wife you had at the time needed a do over because she was under the tarp......lol

 Welcome! 

As one guys says on another tractor forum: if it casts a shadow it can be restored. This tractor is close to that. Good news is there are lots on donor tractor/s and parts out there. 

Thank everyone for your support!

Yes Dick these are slow but fun projects.  I now have 3 C's and 1 B models to work with:) I have been using your pictures a lot what a good resource.

The hardest part to work on has been the final drives.  Getting the brake pins out and then the brake drums off took a long time.  They were some of the most rusted and seized parts to get off.

I was very surprised how good of a condition the bearing and cups, and gears are.  There is some gunk but they were not dry and rusted out. I am replacing all the seals but the bearings are in great shape after a good cleaning.

Tim

My moto has always been (don't force it, get a bigger hammer) 

My bigger hammer !

 

I am making progress but I have several questions.

I have been trying to get the axles out of the final drives to replace the axle seals.  I have gotten the retaining nut loosen on the axle by the bull gear and have been trying to drive them out but have had no luck so far. I do not have any kind of puller (like shown in the service manual) that could pull the axle out from the hub end of the final drive.  Does anyone have suggestions on getting the axle out.

The other problem is getting the PTO shaft out so I can replace its seal and then remove the Belt pulley shaft so I can replace that seal also. I have wedged the gear and have tried to press the PTO shaft out with a 12 ton press but no luck so far.  I even had the press bend with the press force.  Again any suggestions with the PTO shaft?

Thanks, Tim

I have never been into a C. So cant help much. But two things. There will be a bunch of folks on here that will help you. And second when I am in doubt I call Bill at Sandy Lake Implement. He is a good recourse for these AC tractors.

We need more pictures too!

 Regards,

 Chris

The final drive axle is a press fit. Most of the time trying to beat them out will damage the threads on the end. As they are pressed out the inner nut will have to be loosened a littlie at a time as the axle moves.

 

 

hello folks sorry for the long time in getting back to ya'll on my model c work.

I owe ya'll a lot of picture but right now I need a quick bit of info.

I am rebuilding the oil pump and am trying to get the blades/vanes in the right direction.

The shop book saids to install the tapered edge of the blades/vanes leading in a anti/counter clockwise direction from the drive end!  What is considered the drive end for this purpose?

I currently have them installed with the tapered edge leading to the right as looked from the oil pump cover end toward the engine block.

I have several books and forum post but my brain is not getting this right.

Thanks for your help.

Tim

below are two pictures of my oil pump.  the second one shows the blades/vanes as I have them installed.  The first shows the inside of the cover cap with a little wear.  Is this two much wear? I have a rebuild kit that I am using.

Steve,

Thanks, I have cleaned (removed the old gasket) and sanded the cover and have it petty smooth.

What do you think about the direction of the blades?  I only got a little oil pressure with them this direction.  To me this is backwards to what the paper saids about the taper of the blade facing the counter clockwise direction of travel.

I am taking the drive view means from the driver seat looking toward the engine which would make the rotation counter clockwise.

Tim

its been a while since i read the book.. but i think i installed the blades as in your photo.... end clearance on the pump cover is CRITICAL.

for pressure, are you testing on the bench or in the motor ?  Cam shaft is hollow and there is a spring / piston at the front end that must be in  position to maintain pressure.

Manual says the vanes must be installed with tapered side towards direction of rotation.  Rotation is clockwise when viewed with cover removed, as the image above shows.  Looks like you have it right.

Ben

Thanks everybody for the oil pump replies.

I got the oil pump rebuild kit and new check ball in oil pump and tractor back together.  Tractor starts up but still not priming so I stop and prime oil pump the way Dick L. has stated (rubber hose on oil filter filler tub and fill with oil) I laid the rubber hose over in the head.

Start tractor and oil pressure come up to the 'N' of normal on the oi gauge and oil is pumping out of hose.

Stop tractor and 15 minutes later start tractor and no oil pressure:(  Re-prime oil pump and get oil pressure to 'N' of normal.

Every time I let tractor sit it losses oil pump prime.  Checked all fittings I could and everything is tight.

Any suggestions?????

Tim

Steve,

That is what I was afraid of:(

I have a completely new pump insides...rotor, new ball and spring, vanes and springs.

The new ball seamed to seat fine into the rotor but I did not tap it in to make a hard seat.  The new spring is tight holding the check ball.

Is there a way to bench test the pump operation before installing in motor?

I used both thin gaskets under cover which is what was on the pump before I rebuilt it.  There was some play but not much could this cause lost of oil prime?

I am getting a 0-30psi oil gauge so I can see what actual pressure I am getting.

Tim

another question I have is when did the model C's switch from a non-pressurized radiator to a pressurized radiator. Mine is a 1949 C and seems to have had a pressure radiator cap, from old photos,  but the book shows a cap like the gas cap.

If it is pressurized what cap is right?  I have a 7lb cap but I also see a 4lb cap used.

What Little I have run my C so far I had the radiator over flow at about 110 degrees with a a 7lb cap.  I have a rebuilt thermostat on the tractor. Is this normal??

Tim

If your radiator is over flowing at 110 degrees, it could be the thermostat is stuck, not opening, or in backward... It is spring loaded, right ?  I have several tractors and they have 4 or 7 psi caps.. None are "no pressure" caps.  Since there is no overflow tank, you can not fill the radiator to the top.. I have the top tank about 1/2 full. Keep level down an inch and give room for things to breath / expand.

Does anyone know of a source for rebuilt or rebuilding and checking these oil pumps? I am now looking for a completely rebuilt oil pump for a AC 1949 model C.

Thanks,

Tim

I contacted Sand Lake today and they can check out my pump. I also found a pump off a 1940 B block that I may try.

Steve I did place the spring and thrust plunger back in the front of the cam shaft - spring first and then plunger toward the gear cover.  Both looked good so I cleaned and replaced them.

I may take the gear cover off to double check and rule out the thrust plunger and spring as a problem.

Tim

here is a picture of the C as I have been fine tuning her:)

Well guys I have been making some progress:)

I now have good oil pressure and prime (most of the time)!!

What I did is take the tractor apart again and replaced the C oil pump housing with a B oil pump housing.  I put the new rebuild kit I had put in the C into the B housing.  The B housing looked a little better than the C.  I rechecked the new check ball. spring and its fit into the rotor and they were good. The main difference is I only used one gasket under the cover instead of two as on the C.

I had found an old 0-80 psi oil gauge off of a C tractor and tried it so I could see an actual pressure number. After I reconnected the tractor and tried the oil pump it would not pick up prime so I primed the oil pump and had some pressure on the old gauge.  The gauge measured about 2/3 way between 0-20 psi markers so this was much better:)

On Monday my new 0-30 psi oil gauge came in and I put it on the tractor to see what I got.  I did not re-prime the oil pump and tried it with the new gauge. 

Well amazingly it picked up prime from sitting over night and the new gauge registered oil pressure and it kept climbing to 20psi:)  It has settled being between about 15psi and 20psi depending on rpm and running temp it seams. It has keep prime all but one time when after running it 5-6 times it would not re-prime on its own.

Yesterday it had prime from the start and did not lose it

Below are a few pictures of the gauge and the rocker arm getting oiled

On the rocker arm you can see the oil being pumped and moved along like it is supposed to be soooo I got oil everywhere

What I have now run into after getting oil pressure is the tractor dying.

While working on the oil pressure issue I have run the engine a short amount of time i.e. 10-60 sec are so.  The engine starts up just fine and runs smooth with no signs of sputter and cutting out.

After I got oil pressure and ran the engine longer it has started cutting out and going dead.  I have gotten the temperature up to 170 degrees but the cutting out has happened at different temps.

I have a rebuilt mag. new plugs and wires and timing has been good.

The engine will be running smoothly and then just cuts out with very little signs of lugging down. The most it has run before cutting out is just under 2 minutes.

I have re-checked the fuel system and it all looks good.

Any ideals????

Tim

And by the way....WOW!!  Your photos went from rust bucket to shiny!  That thing is really looking good.  Were you able to save the original gas tank, radiator, tool box?

Steve@B&B

Thank guys...I will recheck the gas system all the way through. 

I had the carburetor rebuilt by Sandy Lake and have not done any adjustment to it other than the fuel mixture screw.  When I turn the screw there is not any noticeable change in the running.  Is there any other adjustment on the carburetor???

Here is a picture before I got the valves adjusted and started the engine the first time.  I was dry fitting everything to see how they fit but getting the radiator and cowling to fit was time consuming.

I have a lot of pictures on the rebuild and video of it starting and running but they are two much for this site to store.  I am working on getting them on my Dropbox account so everyone can view them.

Luke114 ... the oil tube in the oil filter is hollow with two side holes at the top along with a hole at the very top. The top of the tube is rounded.  Below is a picture of the tube and you can just see the side holes and the top hole and rounded tub. You should be able to zoom in to see the holes better.

Luke114....The new parts are the battery box, door to tool box, water pump, and seat.  The fenders, instrument box, gas tank, front rims and one rear rim are off a C parts tractor as original ones were two far gone. The tires are off a C and B parts tractor. The radiator core is new but housing is original. The cowling, hood, tool box, one rear rim, and all main parts are original but cleaned and rebuilt as needed.

Tim

I have gotten some of the videos I have taken of the engine starting, running and oil pressure gauge on my Dropbox so you can look at them.

This is the link to my folder with pictures and videos of the AC model C restoration.  I will be adding move pictures and videos as I can.

http://www.dropbox.com/sh/uq9xvwmaq741zow/AADXvSGoXa_Tyt9PyL5-7kkPa?dl=0" rel="nofollow - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/uq9xvwmaq741zow/AADXvSGoXa_Tyt9PyL5-7kkPa?dl=0

Below are the first two times that the tractor engine has been cranked in 40+ years.

http://www.dropbox.com/s/1ij09ry6xe6ii7i/First%20cranking%20in%2040%2B%20years-IMG_5708.mov?dl=0" rel="nofollow - https://www.dropbox.com/s/1ij09ry6xe6ii7i/First%20cranking%20in%2040%2B%20years-IMG_5708.mov?dl=0

http://www.dropbox.com/s/rkiqcot3nwb7yf5/Second%20cranking%20in%2040%2B%20years%20-%20IMG_5709.mov?dl=0" rel="nofollow - https://www.dropbox.com/s/rkiqcot3nwb7yf5/Second%20cranking%20in%2040%2B%20years%20-%20IMG_5709.mov?dl=0

We had no oil pressure at first and had to prime the oil pump if engine set 10+ minutes but it runs and sounds good

http://www.dropbox.com/s/du2nqp5i3f60i51/Priming%20oil%20pump%20and%20oil%20gauge%20reading%20to%20the%20N%20-%20IMG_5760.mov?dl=0" rel="nofollow - https://www.dropbox.com/s/du2nqp5i3f60i51/Priming%20oil%20pump%20and%20oil%20gauge%20reading%20to%20the%20%22N%22%20-%20IMG_5760.mov?dl=0

After we got good oil pressure the engine ran nicely but would just die.  You can hear it running and then die....trying to figure out what the cause is.

http://www.dropbox.com/s/cafyftlxhi4f9ku/Longer%20run%20before%20engine%20just%20dies%20-%20IMG_5805.mov?dl=0" rel="nofollow - https://www.dropbox.com/s/cafyftlxhi4f9ku/Longer%20run%20before%20engine%20just%20dies%20-%20IMG_5805.mov?dl=0

This is a video of the rocker arm being oiled. Oil pressure is running between 15-20 psi.

http://www.dropbox.com/s/d3suh5wve9yqpz8/Oiling%20rocker%20arm%20with%20good%20oil%20pressure%20-%20IMG_5802.mov?dl=0" rel="nofollow - https://www.dropbox.com/s/d3suh5wve9yqpz8/Oiling%20rocker%20arm%20with%20good%20oil%20pressure%20-%20IMG_5802.mov?dl=0

More to follow

Tim

Well guys I think I may have found the source of my engine dying problem. I have taken the carburetor and fuel line system apart several time and everything looked good as it was all new or newly re-built.

Today I noticed that the float valve was not dropping when the floats dropped down.  This is all new but I took it apart and worked on this making sure the float valve dropped every time the floats dropped.

The rubber tip of the new float valve must have been sticking and not letting fuel into the carburetor.

I put the carburetor back on the tractor and it cranked like normal and ran good for a little longer but still died.

Without doing anything different I cranked the engine and it ran for ~5 minutes and then for ~10 minutes before dying.  These are the longest times the engine has run before dying

Let's see what tomorrow brings

Tim

Out in the Sun!

http://www.dropbox.com/s/lp9sq7ypwgc985v/Out%20into%20the%20sunlight%20-%20IMG_5839.mov?dl=0" rel="nofollow - https://www.dropbox.com/s/lp9sq7ypwgc985v/Out%20into%20the%20sunlight%20-%20IMG_5839.mov?dl=0

Tim

Does anyone have a source for the lever spring (207883) used on the throttle control lever on a C?  I have one I got at a hardware store to fit the shaft size of the lever control bolt  but it's not strong enough.

Tim

For oddball hardware I've always liked McMaster Carr.  Big spring selection that you can spec both by size and spring rate, and one of the best online catalogs out there.    

luke114 good ideal.  I use MacMaster-Carr for bolts but have not through about them as a source for springs.

I have found an old throttle control lever spring so I have a sample to use to find a proper new spring.

If you are looking for a new throttle surge spring, we carry them in stock. Our P/N 1601-07C on our website if interested...

Steve@B&B

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