301 gas
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Other Topics
Forum Name: Pulling Forum
Forum Description: Forum dedicated to Tractor and Garden Pulling
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=171861
Printed Date: 23 Nov 2024 at 11:39am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 301 gas
Posted By: Carl(NWWI)
Subject: 301 gas
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2020 at 11:20pm
| Have a 190xt frame sitting here I’d like to strip down for farm class. Can’t run turbos below 9500lbs here so was thinking a 6500lbs class with a built 301 gas. Read a few different posts, big carb and diesel pistons machined down. Any simple options for longer stroke? What rods? Larger bore pistons that will work? Will definitely need some head work as well. |
Replies:
Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 6:44am
The simple way to BIG power is to write a BIIIG check  Great pullers can either be built or brought  ------------- If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 7:12am
| Diesel pistons with some machining on the tops to lower the compression a bit is the cheapest and obviously the least effective because the cubic inches are the same. A larger carb helps and then a huge carb with a worked over intake manifold comes next. I have done two 4.500" bore engines. One at 405 cubes with a stock crank and the other at 442 cubes with a stroked crank. All my 4.500" engines are custom made pistons and sleeves and cost $$$$$ to do. |
Posted By: Carl(NWWI)
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 12:21pm
| At 4.5” I’m guessing the block has to be machined? What’s a cylinder kit run for 4.5”? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 12:25pm
| Been about 15 yrs ago since I did my last one. Boring block runs me $900 for 6 holes. Pistons, sleeves and rings are probably $2800 to $3,000 by now for six. |
Posted By: Carl(NWWI)
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 7:20pm
| Ok, that’s not terrible. If I go that route are you able to get them made for me? |
Posted By: Robacpuller
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 8:38pm
| Don't forget cam grind and degreeING the cam. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2020 at 7:01am
| I'd have to look and see if I still have my drawings and design specs on those parts. If I do, it shouldn't be a problem. The downside would be they could be months away from completion, like not this Summer for sure. |
Posted By: d17brown
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2020 at 2:45pm
|
I have a complete 301 gas engine 350$ ------------- phil |
Posted By: bsallis180
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2020 at 5:11am
| I have a block that fresh from machine shop 100% redone for sale. Also Sleeves. Diesel pistons and if you want hardened rods can go with it and a gas cam. Not to cut The Dr off don’t want to take anything off of him |
Posted By: Carl(NWWI)
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2020 at 9:52pm
| Ok, I’m not going to do anything until winter. Just brain storming. Trying to decide between gas or diesel. Only bad part is no turbo classes below 9500. But pretty sure if I build a turbo 301 I could get some pulls to add a 7k or 8k turbo class. Gas would be fun to build. But so would a diesel. Was thinking gas would be cheaper but it would honestly be the same either route. And I already have a flower head with bigger valves for a diesel, so that saves a lot right there. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2020 at 7:37am
| When it comes to gas versus diesel without a turbo?? gas will always make more HP !!! |
Posted By: Carl(NWWI)
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2020 at 10:10am
| Absolutely! I will either build a gas, or a turbo 301 diesel. I had a diesel before, ran good with what I had done. Should’ve just coughed up the money for an s200 and I would’ve ran great. Tore it down planning on using one of OPS heads over bore kits. But changed my mind, still would have to pull against 1066’s. If I strip one down and build it like I had before I shouldn’t have a problem keeping towards the top. |
Posted By: frnkeore
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2020 at 5:37pm
|
I have a quick question, maybe :) What does it take to convert a 301 diesel to gas? Can you do it with just a head and lower compression pistons? The reason I ask, is I passed on a 180, last month, because it was a diesel. All my tractors are gas and I don't want to add a diesel. ------------- Frank 1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14 '55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861 Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2020 at 6:49pm
| The parts list to convert a 180 diesel to a 180 gas would be a long one: pistons and sleeves to a 301 gas engine......cylinder head and valves.....exhaust manifold (which there are none available) ..intake manifold.....distributer, cap and wires......different camshaft.....carburetor.....governor......different timing cover and front plate on the engine......air tube from air cleaner......fuel pump...….and on and on...……. |
Posted By: Carl(NWWI)
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 12:29am
| Sleeves and cam are the same part number according to parts books for diesel and gas. Nevermind. Depends on what page you look at....glad I double checked. Some I’ve found those for aftermarket the G2800 and D2900 sleeves are same part number. Camshaft is definitely different part number tho. |
Posted By: frnkeore
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 2:59am
|
Thank you. ------------- Frank 1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14 '55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861 Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more. |
Posted By: omahagreg
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 6:16am
|
My grandpa had a 185 that needed inj pump work again, but he was not crop farming much anymore, but was feeding cattle and wanted a gas tractor with loader. Talked to Wells Implement, Plymouth Nebraska. They took the parts off a combine and converted it to gas with oem parts! Sold him a Westendorf loader with grapple fork and he was smiling ear to ear! Never did hear what it all cost, but it can be done! ------------- Greg Kroeker 1950 WD with wide front and Freeman trip loader |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 6:44am
| It can be done with a complete gasoline engine from a model "G" combine, is what they did, utilizing parts from each engine to make it happen. They still had an issue getting the correct timing cover and front plate, as those parts still had to come off of a gas tractor engine. |
Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 8:24pm
|
For a puller engine that the most HP per CID would be desired, I believe that a Spark ignition engine running on E85 or propane would be the best choice. Both fuels would be 105 octane, low cost and a general consumer fuel. Some place have rules against "Racing Gas" High HP per CID in a diesel means TURBOCHARGING  or NOS (Nitrous Oxide) ------------- If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |