my new HD6
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=170819
Printed Date: 28 Apr 2024 at 1:10pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: my new HD6
Posted By: krusty
Subject: my new HD6
Date Posted: 04 May 2020 at 6:39pm
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Folks.... Came across a local crawler loader. I have a JD40C, two D4s I need to combine into one and this was priced right. Fires on ether and the guy said he used it last year but it seems to only work for a minute after priming it. So it sat and now he is cleaning up. Undercarriage looks to be very good. No welds on it at all. Found the injector manual but if anyone has any other manuals....operations and or repair in PDF please do let me know. Will try and diagnose the injector issues and worst case I have a nice 4-71 to swap in! Looks to be an SAE2 bellhousing and same as my 4-71.  Krusty |
Replies:
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 04 May 2020 at 7:15pm
| Basic 344 Buda Lanova style engine, later model strictly Allis in this one as has the Heavy "V" Lift arm. Most likely stuck the injector plunger in the pump and once cranked is now broken, FEW to any will look into a PSB Pump anymore. Is a shut off valve bottom of tank Left Side. also has a plunger style lift pump on the injection pump and a manual shut off connection to left side of pump head which also could be stuck. |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 04 May 2020 at 10:10pm
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Could be fuel filters plugged or line to tank. ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: NomoreJohnDeere
Date Posted: 04 May 2020 at 10:23pm
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I like it ------------- HD3 |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 05 May 2020 at 4:55am
| Cannot tell of rails but shoes are decent, seems to have decent bottom rollers, may be just something small failed. Also check tank for debris and STOP running on ether, is not good on these. |
Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 05 May 2020 at 5:39am
| You could disconnect the air filter he could be clog and disconnected the fuel line who is comming from fuel tank to the fuel filter if he has full fuel. |
Posted By: krusty
Date Posted: 05 May 2020 at 7:42am
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Dont worry I do not like ether either. Will head back there tomorrow with some charged batteries and should be able to get the low pressure fuel system figured out pretty quick and ensure it is functional. Thanks for the tidbits, have been doing lots of reading on the forum and think I now understand the fuel path. Just out of curiosity where are the batteries located? I did not spend much time at the rear of the machine. Anyone have a pdf of the PSB4 service manual? Krusty
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Posted By: krusty
Date Posted: 05 May 2020 at 8:19am
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> manual shut off connection to left side of pump head which also could be stuck Do you have a pic of where this is located? Or are you saying the main fuel shutoff for the pump? For some reason I interpreted your comments meaning a less obvious shutoff.
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Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 05 May 2020 at 4:22pm
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" http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Ambac/Fuel1.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Ambac/Fuel1.htm" Dig here http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Ambac/Fuel1.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Ambac/Fuel1.htm
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Posted By: krusty
Date Posted: 06 May 2020 at 4:43pm
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I took a bucket of tools out to the machine today with some fresh batteries. I never actually turned it over when I went to see it. Just assumed what the guy said as he was brutally honest. Put in the batteries and it fired right up and purred like a kitten for about 15 seconds. Then died. Went into debug mode: -fuel in tank and valve open -fuel coming out of first filter without issue -fuel not coming out of fuel supply pump So either: -hose from first filter to fuel supply pump is collapsed or clogged -fuel supply pump is toast I had the hose at the outlet disconnected and not much if any came out other than when I first cracked it open. Is there some sort of check valve at the input side of the pump that could be stuck closed? I did not have a ratcheting screwdriver to get in there and take the pump cover off. Regular screwdriver was blocked by some of the chassis bits. Could I use an electric lift pump to bypass the fuel input pump to confirm the rest works fine or does the plunger pump on the injectors need a min input PSI?  Krusty
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Posted By: krusty
Date Posted: 06 May 2020 at 5:01pm
Question on this and I am not doubting your knowledge....the manual available from jensales on the PSB pump states that it is a gear lift pump. I do not want to waste my $$ on their manual if it is not correct!
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DMiller wrote:Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 06 May 2020 at 5:06pm
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Electric pump would doubtfully provide proper feed, is seals are weak on old pump could flood crankcase. If it started and died would remove the primary filter element, the head is set up for Tank to primary, primary to lift pump, lift pump to secondary to inj pump. Is possible has a blocked primary filter. |
Posted By: krusty
Date Posted: 06 May 2020 at 5:21pm
Sorry I was not clear. Tank is above primary filter. I took the hose of at the outlet of the primary filter, the hose that goes to the input of the lift pump. Where I disconnected it, there was substantial flow via gravity from the fuel tank. Connected it again and this time took the hose off the output of the lift pump. There was a bit of fuel at first but nothing more. Turning the engine over did not provide any flow out the lift pump. Hence why I am wondering what could be blocking in there or if it is a plunger, broken etc. There is no fuel in the engine oil. I would have thought that there would have been some flow come out while engine cranking, but not a drop.
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Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 06 May 2020 at 7:09pm
| Line off at entry side(Front of engine) of the lift pump, fuel present? It is a gear type pump, cannot remember if has a debris screen in the inlet fitting, check valves are inside the body of the lift pump, where has to be removed to access. |
Posted By: krusty
Date Posted: 06 May 2020 at 7:25pm
I will get it out of there tomorrow and see what is going on. Did not take the line off at the input of the pump as I may need to bring a stubby wrench or cut one down to fit on the fuel line fitting. Thx for the clarification on the gear pump. Something is constipated in there! That inlet fitting definately does something otherwise it would not be in the circuit. I have ordered the PSB manual and should get it this eve or tomorrow AM. Thanks as always!
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Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 06 May 2020 at 11:47pm
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Krusty, sent you a pm. ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: krusty
Date Posted: 07 May 2020 at 12:28pm
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Thanks for all the tips....it is alive! Must have sat for a bit as the key between the fuel pump shaft and the gear wash sheared. It is like nothing I have ever seen before, the key that is, and very small. Slight oxidation locked up the non shaft pump gear and must have then broke the key. It was easy to free up. I pushed the remaining length of key through and stuffed hockey tape there to keep in in place temporarily. Took a bit to prime the injector lines......anyone know where I can get such a key? I know the machine needs one front idler bearing as he said it was starting to go, and will do that once it is home. Hopefully that will be it and then I can take it to the woods to do some real work! [TUBE]sESdOvTRotM[/TUBE]
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Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 07 May 2020 at 2:25pm
| Be REALLY careful when disassemble the Idler, note where the shims are located, Try to NOT damage the seals as are made of Unobtanium and a specific design to Allis, bearings should be available any parts house by bearing numbers on them. If get on Minnpar web site they do stock SOME pieces yet for our machines. Measure your key stock, just purchase locally. |
Posted By: krusty
Date Posted: 07 May 2020 at 3:11pm
Unobtainium.....never heard of that before but like it! The key is not a standard key of any sorts. The shaft only has a round hole perpendicular to the key, it does not have a parallel key groove in it. The gear has a standard key shaft. The key that was in there was a half thickness square key with a perpendicular rod sticking up. Should not take much to make another using a spring pin and square key milled half thick.  |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 07 May 2020 at 5:33pm
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Unobtanium, as in No Longer Manufactured regardless where look, Unobtainable. Is there a Fuel Injection shop nearby? May have to check with them as to where to procure, Minnpar will not have that. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 07 May 2020 at 5:42pm
| May have to buy a complete transfer pump used, Try Hector Gemme(GEMDOZER) on here or General Gear in Boise ID. |
Posted By: NomoreJohnDeere
Date Posted: 08 May 2020 at 8:40am
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sounds good ------------- HD3 |
Posted By: krusty
Date Posted: 12 May 2020 at 3:10pm
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I put new filters on today as one was leaking badly at the gasket. The batteries did not have enough juice to get it bled and started up again. Will go back Th aft and get er done. Then I can have it hauled home. I was looking at the track to see if there was some type of removable pin on the track so I can get at the front idler once it is home. Am I missing one or how does the track come apart? My little JD40C does have 1 removable pin in it.
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Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 12 May 2020 at 5:25pm
Most master pins are marked, somehow, usually a center punch in the center, or 2 flat ears... ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 12 May 2020 at 5:53pm
Master will have a dimple in the face, none of the others will, and will take a Pin Pusher designed for track work or a Twenty Pound Sledge with a Drift to get it out then back in. Been doing this for close to forty years. The weld marks were from establishing my Helper now on the floor on the track link to Hold the Drift. |
Posted By: krusty
Date Posted: 12 May 2020 at 7:52pm
| Thanks! Is the 20 pound sledge something I should consider or just pay someone? I am rather stubborn so dont mind trying myself at least. Also have a 10 ton ram I could use, but the online videos show 100 ton rams. I assume it comes out towards the inside. When putting it back in, do you go from the inside to the outside? aka opposite? |
Posted By: HD6GTOM
Date Posted: 12 May 2020 at 10:54pm
| Does it not have the ripper bar and counter weights on the rear. If not you might find it a little light on the rear? Look on line and find a original AC service Manuel and operator Manuel. I had these machines and found off brand Manuel's to be a pain in the butt. Pictures would be black, pages out of order or missing. Good luck with it. They are fun. I hope yours has the decelerator pedal. And you will be very busy with the hand clutch, hyd levers, etc. But once you get used to it it will be fun. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 13 May 2020 at 6:30am
| Will need to be 40-60 ton to move pins if are not already loose from age, ten ton will just sit there. If have never swung a 20#, do not buy one and have a HE Mechanic with a Track pin press come take them off. Most small dealers will have a portable they can haul around but will cost you. These are NOT for the faint of heart or the aged as will flat wear you out. |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 13 May 2020 at 8:47am
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you can do it with a sledge if you have the fortitude but you need to buck the rail on the backside tightly so it doesnt bounce. ive had the pleasure of doing hd16 rail by hammer and driver. best driver is shaft welded to a long handle so helper can hold and be well out of way swinging sledge. even then you may need a little heat to expand the rail a touch and get it started. ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 13 May 2020 at 4:46pm
I am about to send my 20# to the scrapper or donate for a boat anchor. Have had one the better part of forty years and just about to the Done Moment!!! |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 14 May 2020 at 7:28am
well im a young buck yet (39) so can still swing a bit. I will tell you it wasnt much fun though! ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 14 May 2020 at 7:42am
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I have a couple decades PLUS on you!! And I can state unequivocally that 20# gets heavier EVERY Time used!! Dropped rails on the 7G as first bought it, then dropped rails on Donor when got it repeated process this LAST and FINAL time on it for me, next poor bustard owner is ALL HIS! I will use it awhile then she goes Ta Ta, Byebye!! |
Posted By: HD6 Merv
Date Posted: 14 May 2020 at 1:40pm
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Naah; don,t work like that Dave You will use it abit; then abit more; fall in love with it again. . . . And then bang. . .hiccup back to square one again lol. Cheers mate Merv ------------- tits tyres and tracks they all cost you money |
Posted By: krusty
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 9:50am
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Gang, It has been a stinkin hot summer which while I do love the heat, I can no longer work outside in it like a dog. Finally got the machine home and its getting back to seasonal temps tomorrow. Does anyone have a parts book of the front idler pages they could send to me? I figure I will order the bearings and have them on hand for when the guy is here to press the pin. If it comes apart easy will just make him wait while I change out the bearings and he can press it back together instead of a second trip. That of course if it is easy to do once apart! Krusty,
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Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 10:41am
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free parts book here. covers all 6g its at the bottom https://www.minnpar.com/manuals3.aspx?FName=FIAT%5FALLIS%5FPARTS%5FMANUALS&SFName=FIAT%5FALLIS%5FCRAWLER%5FLOADER%5FPARTS%5FMANUALS" rel="nofollow - https://www.minnpar.com/manuals3.aspx?FName=FIAT%5FALLIS%5FPARTS%5FMANUALS&SFName=FIAT%5FALLIS%5FCRAWLER%5FLOADER%5FPARTS%5FMANUALS
------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: krusty
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 3:12pm
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Cal Thx for that link! Also found the early parts manual here: http://www.tractorparts.com/PDFs/AC_HD6_PARTS_MANUAL_70626026_Early.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.tractorparts.com/PDFs/AC_HD6_PARTS_MANUAL_70626026_Early.pdf Seems to be the 3720/3780 Timken and I cant match a seal so will go with the equivalent seal dimensions as with the Timken unless someone knows the specific width of the Allis equivalent! I know I am not supposed to mess up the spring assembly for the seal but I wonder if it is even required anymore? The modern bearings I have access to are pre lubed and sealed as a unit already. Since I have yet to take it apart it may become obvious when it is actually apart.
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Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 4:39pm
| Allis seals were a spring loaded boot affair, keep lube in dirt out, spring load kept pressure on running faces that oozed a bit of lube to keep lubricated enough not to gall. No one makes a replacement. |
Posted By: krusty
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 4:53pm
| Indeed. I am aware of the allis seals but alas, there is obvious bearing wear and I suspect the seals in there are no longer functional. I will grab the bearings I guess from the store and 2 regular seals per side and go from there at least while the guy is here. |
Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 7:12pm
| I am still have some idler ring seals and bellow seals but no more bearings |
Posted By: krusty
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 5:45pm
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Had to reprime the fuel system. Last time I had it running at the dude's place there was a 1/4 tank of fuel. Not sure if it leaked out or what! There was none today when I checked it. Still need to make a pin for the lift pump gear but the machine has lots of power. Keep in mind my other functional machine is a JD40C which has hardly any weight to it. iI cant imagine working on an old machine like that for 8+ hours a day. Right side steers well but the left side wont lock up. Will look into adjustments this eve after dark with a frosty cold one in hand.
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Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 8:10pm
| You could check your motor oil if he is overfull by fuel or maybe the fuel line is leaking in pan maybe full dirt |
Posted By: JohnColo
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 10:22pm
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Or perhaps someone decided they needed a quarter tank of fuel... |
Posted By: krusty
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 2:25pm
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You know, the fuel is not in the oil. There was no obvious 10 gallons of diesel underneath the machine. Anyways it is bled and am now very pleased how quick it starts. The injector pump has a slight trickle at one bolt and will get a new washer for it shortly. It does not cause me concern. The left side clutch will not disengage. I have rebuilt both sides of my JD40C and have a general idea how these work. Played with the adjustment and it just wont release. Does not even feel right. The is far too much water in there so I suspect it is rusted up. http://www.tractorparts.com/PDFs/HD5HD6STEERINGCLUTCH_wm.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.tractorparts.com/PDFs/HD5HD6STEERINGCLUTCH_wm.pdf looks to be a reprint for the clutch service manual. for any of you guys who have taken it out before does it really come out the top like that magically? Man that would be great if it did. On my old JD you have to take the final drive housing off which can be a pain. If I can just lift this clutch assembly out I can determine where it is binding and get new fiber disks if needed. Am still very pleased with the machine so far. Also need to figure out the shift pattern 
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Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 10:55pm
| Yes....I'm here to tell you....the only way you will get that out....is through the top. But sometimes it's not quite magically getting it loose first ..to come out the top. Your earlier posts indicate to me you might have some trouble getting it loose from the flanges. But keep us posted. |
Posted By: krusty
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2020 at 9:45am
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A little pin pressing video.... https://youtu.be/pk9ybf0PBcI" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/pk9ybf0PBcI
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Posted By: krusty
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2020 at 9:38am
had some spare time yesterday so I took the front idler wheel off. one side had been welded to the track frame. buddy said a front bearing was shot but the bearing is fine, its the shaft that is bent! wonder how they were able to do something like that. should be able to turn a new one in short order thankfully. will take it apart tomorrow. the track adjuster is the hydraulic type. wondering if I should take it apart and clean it and put a new seal in while it is all apart? I put grease into it and it seemed to work fine as is. maybe I have answered my own question in my mind, new seal while it is apart. |
Posted By: krusty
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2020 at 9:47am
Got the idler apart and indeed the shaft is very bent. All I could imagine is that one side being welded to the track frame and the other side free. Someone must have tried to tighten the track and bent it. Am surprised more was not damaged but the bearings inside are fine. I did break one seal and think someone said they may have a replacement. The spring mechanism is fine. Will hopefully get a new shaft turned this week unless someone out here has a used one! |