D17 running rough
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=168329
Printed Date: 19 Apr 2024 at 5:04pm
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Topic: D17 running rough
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Subject: D17 running rough
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 12:44pm
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I bought a d17 last year and used it only to cut hay 1 time. It ran great until the day I went to use it( when I filled tank up full) I think this washed out what I later dug out of the carb sediment bowl filter what looked like to me was a spider nest ( maybe in upper part of tank) which made it run terrible until I stopped and found it. My question is, what is the best method to clean everything out so I know the entire fuel system is good this coming year? Any tips are appreciated, thanks Matt |
Replies:
Posted By: TimNearFortWorth
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 6:49pm
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I have had good luck by siphoning all but maybe 1-1/2 to 2 gallons out, then pull the bowl/petcock assy. completely out and let her drain. Have found some over the years where the standpipe in the assy. was entirely gone including one found loose inside the tank and some that were corroded partially away or restricted by crud including Stabil fuel treatment. If it still has the standpipe, crud usually settles in that last inch below the top of same and gets stirred up when filled/ran as it sloshes it around. A clean bucket with a large mouth funnel and a paint filterwill show you what was in there and you may have to bung it off and repeat with a couple gallons to get more out unless you want to remove the tank entirely. Removing the tank may be needed if you have chunks of the old cork floating around that are too big to come through the bottom pipe thread port. How does the tank look inside with a flashlight? 17's use the larger bowl and NAPA has a pleated filter that fits inside the larger bowl nicely. Sounds like your carb needs to come off for cleaning/rebuild also? Rigging up a temporary tank off a lawnmower is what I use when they show up with a tank looking nasty, just to check carb status.
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Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 8:12pm
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I have had good results on small engine fuel tanks with filling them with pour in the tank injector cleaner and letting them sit overnight. For a tractor tank a handful of roofing nails with enough cleaner to get half an inch in the bottom and put it in the back of your truck for a few days. The sloshing around will break up bad fuel deposits so you can rinse them out. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2020 at 4:28pm
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Well I found part of the problem today. There were a couple spiders in the bottom of the gas tank looking in with a flashlight so I decided to pull the bowl/ assembly off after draining all the gas and I found a ladybug jamdown inside of the assembly that the glass bowl clamps onto and was clogging/ restricting gas flow. I figured that I had found the reason that it was running so rough, after putting it all back together it starts right up with the choke on but stalls within 10 seconds unless you keep pushing on the choke then it will continue to run but not the greatest... I pulled the carburetor off and plan to go through it and see if there are any obvious problems and give it a good cleaning. There's probably a good reason why when you push the choke it continues to run that I'm unaware of... Any ideas?(before I filled the entire tank up with gas when I bought this tractor it ran great, so I'm guessing when I filled it and sloshed gas around it dislodged a lot of stuff and got into the carburetor) Thanks Matt 👍 |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2020 at 4:35pm
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hmm... PULLING the choke knob should put choke ON, PUSHING should shut it off. at least that's how all 3 of my D-14s work.... pull to start, push to run..... Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2020 at 4:52pm
| It's on a spring return ( let go of knob, choke off) |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2020 at 5:33pm
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My choke is not spring loaded. Back is to choke, forward is off choke. May want to check fuel flow again through the sediment bowl assembly. stirring up the tank may have made some other items float into the neck of the sediment bowl assembly too. Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2020 at 6:06pm
| Does anyone know how the little critters get into a tank-provided the cap was always on ?? Seems like they can get anywhere :-( |
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2020 at 6:07pm
| My guess is they're in the spout of the gas can when you dump gas in they get flushed in and drowned... |
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2020 at 6:09pm
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I'm wondering if mine is spring loaded because of the exterior spring someone has added to it because they had problems with the choke somehow staying on? When I disassembled it there was a funky looking spring attached to the arm of the carburetor so that it has tension on it all the time... I did check that everything was cleaned out after I found the lady bug and spiders in it and I also flush the tank out and looked in it to make sure there was nothing left... I almost have to believe that something is in one of the needle seats in the carburetor or particles have something plugged off has anyone seen because it ran fine when I bought it but only started this running rough after I filled the tank all the way full and it's sloshed around and got plugged with ladybugs and spiders... |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2020 at 6:16pm
| Our choke cables were/are a "friction" type deal, in fact, the 180 is somewhat a "tug" to pull out. Seems like the WD was spring loaded though ?? |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2020 at 6:26pm
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My uneducated no data behind it guess, is that most were not spring loaded from the factory but someone may have added the spring to avoid the choke being left on? That being said. The choke on my Ford Jubilee is spring loaded and if cold I have to put a clip on it to keep it running for a while till it warms up. Most of the Allis tractors I have played with WD series mostly did not have a spring on the choke. Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2020 at 6:51pm
 here's my ladybug where I found it( it's yellow) d**!? I thought for sure once I find it along with 2 spiders that I'd reassemble and be running great again but now I'll dig into the carb.I'm wondering if I'll need a carb kit( not sure what make/ model of carb it is yet) I know my "b" is a marvel s.) Any info is appreciated 👍 |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2020 at 6:55pm
Parts Book lists #70210742 as the choke return spring. We had a clip to hold the choke rod 1/2 out during warm-up as the spring would pull the rod back :-) |
Sugarmaker wrote:Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2020 at 8:53pm
| I'll take some pictures and post them of carb tomorrow maybe... |
Posted By: Keith M
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2020 at 9:19pm
| My WD-45 does Not have a spring on the choke and never did. Mine got to where I had to pull choke out to keep it running while raking hay last fall. Rebuilt the carburetor and she ran fine pulling the grain elevator. So in guessing you need carburetor kit put in. Just guessing mind you. Duh I just realized this was D-17 post. My D-17 is a diesel so idk about cable 🙀 |
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 6:01am
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No cable on mine it's a rod(1959)ok thanks Anyone know what carb kit I'll need? And yup, have no idea why this changed to a wd45 talk( header says d17)🤪 |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 8:12am
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Your carb could have jets partially blocked from particles that came along with the ladybug! Take it apart, remove all the jets and clean with carb cleaner and compressed air - maybe a couple of times. Same thing with all the passageways in the carb body. And the fuel line and float valve in the carb. All it takes is a tiny bit of crud in the carb to really mess with how it performs. If necessary, rinse and repeat. ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 8:14am
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Yep, probably doing starting in a bit so I'll see what I find. I need to clean about a quarter inch of crud off the outside just to hopefully be able to see what brand it is then I can maybe get a model number from it also... |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 8:35am
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My D17 has a zienith carb, and seems to run fine with it. I like the Marvel carbs better for some reason. Just used to them I guess. Your tractor may have a Marverl TSX464. Look for the small brass plate riveted on under the flange area. I liked the kit I got from Sandy Lake when i did a 464 carb refurb this winter. Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 8:49am
| Ok thanks, I'll look for it. |
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2020 at 8:54am
It looks to be a TSX 773 with a number 59 under the TSX part and number three under the seven seven three part  here's 2 pictures of my carb off d17.
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Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 5:05am
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I bought a carb rebuild kit just incase after I open it up I think I need new parts, on my time off work... More to come. Thanks Matt |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 9:25am
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Matt, You will need some of those parts in the kit. I used all the new parts and put the old ones away for spares. Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2020 at 10:07am
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Right, gaskets and other stuff I'm sure. I'm cleaning up the outside in a parts cleaner now... Thanks Matt 👍 |
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2020 at 8:20am
| I'm really hoping it's a issue with carb and not the gov or something else, but it seams like it should be b/c all this issue started after I filled tank completely and drove 200 yrds.before that tractor had no issue with running although now that I'm thinking back when I initially test drove it it was sputtering under load of a hill at owners place where I bought it🙄.but this is completely different in the fact that now I found the orifices blocked completely by a ladybug and spiders( got that taken care of last weekend) and even after all that cleaned out including the tank itself it would only stay idling when I pushed the choke lever every 10 seconds or so and if I let it go more than that it stalled... |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 8:41am
If you are using a rubber gas line between the sediment bowl and the carb, that may be adding to your problems. They can look fine on the outside, but start breaking down internally and fill little holes in the jets with pieces of rotted rubber. I know it's the easy way, with rubber hose, but the original steel lines worked fine for decades and are still the best way to go IMO. I had the neighbors 770 Oliver here some years ago and it would run fine for maybe a couple minutes, maybe 5 or more, then die like you shut the key off. I kept thinking the coil or condenser was bad. Come to find out, there were about a dozen of those stinking 'Asian' lady bugs in the tank. They must be able to skinny in thru the gas cap somehow,, when looking for a winter home. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 9:59am
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I know, it's on my list to do( came this way last year when I bought it) I'm not sure if there's a premade one I can buy or not? Either through the crevices on cap or follow my thought here... Spiders catch them and retreat into the neck of you gas cans which in my case would explain why I found 2 spiders and Asian lady bugs in tank.you are putting all of it into your tanks inadvertently. It has made me check all my gas/ fuel necks before I use them( which I never thought of this before my findings in my d17 tank/bowl assembly and possibly the carberator ( I'll update this post after I clean carb out) Thanks Matt |
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 11:20am
   Just cleaning the years of gunk off the outside, inside and rebuild to come. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 6:03pm
Just out of curiosity, if the exterior of your 'carb looks like that, what does the rest of the block look like
 ? That thing is a disaster externally IMO. |
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 6:42pm
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It's no show tractor, definitely has work clothes on😁 It does look rough, but at least there's not a quarter to a half-inch of gunk covering the whole thing anymore. It makes me laugh because it's kind of like other guys at work that have 60 to $80,000 trucks that never even used the four-wheel drive or tow anything or even put mulch in the bed (a waste, imo) I'm more concerned with how well it operates not looking for a showpiece that never leaves the concrete floor of someone's shop... Thanks Matt 👍 |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 6:48pm
| Just saying that if the carb is that oily on the outside of "it", maybe you've got some leaking seals/ gaskets elsewhere that might make a carb rebuild "moot"? |
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 6:58pm
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Next project maybe, For now my curiosity is in fixing/ cleaning carb to run like it did before it got clogged with bugs. One thing at a time... They used a rubber hose that is 6" long to connect to carb instead of running the steel gas line the whole way from bowl to carb( which I'm sure has been leaking a long time creating a wet exterior all the time letting it collect 60 years of dust and dirt on it) |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2020 at 9:54pm
| Not sure about this but I think there is a screen inside the 90deg elbow on the carb. Leave that fitting screwed into it to turn it out or you may distort it. I guess you know to remove tube above power screw(inside)to get bowl off? |
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 7:01am
| Okay so you're saying the 90-degree elbow that the gas line attaches to has a screen before the carburetor? No I am not sure what you are talking about with the screw to get to the bowl? |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 8:07am
Some TSX carbs have the power metering screw come in from the top half and are long and extend into the bottom half. This carb has the power metering screw in the bottom 'front' side of the bowl and does not interfere with splitting the halves. Here is a Marv Schebler PDF file that may come in handy. http://fergusontractors.org/nfs/wp-content/uploads/technical-articles/Carburetor-Information.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://fergusontractors.org/nfs/wp-content/uploads/technical-articles/Carburetor-Information.pdf ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 8:17am
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Matt, Your on your way to a good working clean carb! Good job. These are good projects and I am sure your tractor will probably run better too. These may or may not have a screen at the carb entrance? Most of mine have not, but i have not done one of these carbs like you have. Looking forward to following your work. Good pictures of your progress too! Thanks. Good pictures prompt more good questions and we can all learn some things! Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 9:50am
Some do have the screen. You won't know until you remove the fitting. Been a long time since had mine apart but I thought it had the tube behind that external power screw...like a Briggs &Stratton. |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 10:42am
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I think this is the elbow/screen Steve M C/IL is talking about: https://www.tractorpartsasap.com/elbow-strainer-new-ford-9n9553-international-69938d-110005.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.tractorpartsasap.com/elbow-strainer-new-ford-9n9553-international-69938d-110005.html Has anyone used this screen that goes fits snugly into the top of the sediment bowl assembly, inside the gas tank? I just got a couple. I'm hoping they will help the plugging the inlet of the sediment bowl on a mildly dirty tank. https://www.tractorpartsasap.com/fuel-tank-screen-new-allis-chalmers-case-oliver-white-114940.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.tractorpartsasap.com/fuel-tank-screen-new-allis-chalmers-case-oliver-white-114940.html
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Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 1:29pm
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I use a similar fuel tank filter in my Model A Fords. Works fine there - doesn't fit the sed bowls on my AC tractors, though. Haven't used the elbow version. Dave ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2020 at 7:43am
It does have a 'tube' behind the 'external power screw' but that screw is on the bottom front of the bowl, not the top, and doesn't interfere with splitting the carb in half. If the power adjust needle is on top, the needle goes way down into the bottom and has to be removed to split it. Pic 1 below. The TSX B has the power metering screw on top and has to be removed first. Pic 2 The TSX C has the power metering screw on the bottom and does not have to be removed for disassembly.   ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2020 at 3:24pm
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Ok, I have a question about one of the floats in my carburetor was bent when I disassembled it (not the arms that hold the floats but the actual float is bent in, in other words it does not look the same as the other side and I'm wondering how do I check the floats to make sure they're not damaged or allowing gas to get inside of them? |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2020 at 4:28pm
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Hey Matt - submerge the float in a bucket of water. Should try to float. If you see air bubbles, it's got a hole somewhere. ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2020 at 4:45pm
....and after doing that for several minutes, you should be able to hear water moving inside it, when you shake it.
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Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2020 at 5:19pm
| Submerge it in a small container of gasoline. Gas will leak into it quicker than water if it has small leak. Water may not leak where gas will. |
Posted By: Alberta Phil
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2020 at 7:31pm
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I just submerge them in a small container of warm water. The expanding air will come out of any bad seams or pin holes and you will see the bubbles |
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2020 at 7:36am
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Before and after Got her all cleaned up/ rebuilt with new carb kit and ready to hook back up and give it a go🤞   There were a lot of the small ports that were closed off completely and a lot of junk pretty much everywhere inside of the carb, I don't think it's ever been cleaned since manufactured in 1959 so it always feels good to do your best at getting something back to decent condition. |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2020 at 7:58am
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Matt, That is looking a lot better! Hope the D17 runs better for you too! Thanks for the updates on the carb rebuild. Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2020 at 8:13am
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Yup, thanks I'm having trouble finding carb setting for lower main adjust needle screw in/out? I did adjust / bend float where directions showed to a measurement of 1/4" between float and gasket |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2020 at 10:12am
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Matt, I'm having the same challenge with the carb on my WD45. It's likely a partly blocked passageway or jet in my case. Could be the same with your D17 just from running it as the crud moves around inside the carb. It can take several cleanings to get all the passageways cleaned out. One thing to try is submerging the two halves in carb cleaning fluid - I think you can still buy it - for a day or so. Then blow every passageway dry. Also try gently reaming out any passageway you can get a reamer into. I use a light paperclip - unbend it, then shape it to get into passageways. One other thing that can happen. In some of these old carbs, some of the needle screws tighten against seats that are built into the casting. Those seats can be damaged by overtightening, crud buildup, etc. If that happens, adjusting them can be frustrating - adjusting the needle screw doesn't seem to change much. HTH Dave
------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2020 at 11:11am
| Yep all cleaned now and reassemble it yesterday but don't know where to set main jet needle( rich/ lean setting I believe?) |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2020 at 11:35am
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Ah. I think I misunderstood your earlier question. Try closing it - gently - all the way. Then open 1.5 turns and try that. Adjust from there. ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2020 at 1:00pm
| Oh, I know the idle adjust screw is all the way in then out one to one-and-a-half turns but did not know that the main jet bottom screw on the very bottom of the carburetor was the same? |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2020 at 1:14pm
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I'm no expert, Matt, but my understanding of these carbs is to start with 1.5 turns out on the idle and main and tweak from there. You want the engine warmed up. Tweak with engine not at idle - you want the high speed circuit engaged. ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2020 at 2:48pm
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Well, Yahoo! D-17 is up and running again and actually idles all the way down to its lowest setting on the steering column lever and stays idling very low speed... Thanks to all who gave me information on getting this fixed 👍 It does however seem to have a misfire about every 10 seconds or so probably needs new components in the timing I'm guessing plugs wires etc... Man it feels great to know that if I need it to clean up the pasture with the rear blade now and grade our driveway, I have a tractor that at least starts and runs like it should( for the most part) Thanks Matt |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2020 at 4:46pm
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Well, good to hear, Matt! About your misfire...I have a similar thing with my WD45. Could be a valve not set properly or wobble in the distributor shaft or ??? Have you worked it hard recently? Maybe it just needs to be pushed hard for a few hours. Dave ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2020 at 5:53pm
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Very well a valve needed to be set correctly. I bought this tractor last Summer and the only thing I've done with it so far is cut our three acre hay field with a 80t sickle mower that I fixed up, so no I have not really run it very hard at all and while I was using it to sickle mower it was spittering and sputtering so bad that I almost couldn't finish the field (hopefully I've got that issue taking care of because it was mostly an issue when it was trying to go up a hill under load) |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2020 at 6:02pm
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Matt, Good job getting the tractor running with the rebuilt carb! Just one of the many things to keep these old tractors functioning! Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |