Discbine or Haybine
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=166735
Printed Date: 28 Sep 2024 at 3:20pm
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Topic: Discbine or Haybine
Posted By: Jersey Allis
Subject: Discbine or Haybine
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2019 at 9:31pm
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Hello, I am starting a new topic and here it is Discbine or Haybine. I am really torn between what to do here. I have around 25 acres of Red Clover/Orchard grass mix for dairy use, and I want to trade in the old mower for a newer used mower, but I do t know what to go for I really like the New Holland 488 Haybines and their 1411 Discbines, as well as New Idea's 5409 cutditioner discbine. What should I trade in for?!? Opinions please I use a 185 as the power unit. |
Replies:
Posted By: DanWi
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2019 at 10:45pm
| A 185 will be a good match for a 9 ft discbine on smooth fields you will mow all day in 5th and 6th gear. it is such nice mowing and not stopping and backing up to unplug. Once you mow with one you will never go back to a sickle. The only downside is you are looking at a $10,000 range for a good used one. Some people in rocky conditions may recommend a cab as they could potentially throw a stone out the front. We have a kuhn fc283rtg behind a 190XT |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2019 at 11:46pm
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I second DanWi, if I had to go back to a sickle mower, I'd quit making hay. Disk mowers are soooo much better. Years ago my cousin was having trouble cutting some thick grass hay with his NH haybine, called the dealer to bring out a New Idea diskbine, after making one round he told the salesman to tow the haybine away. ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2019 at 4:55am
Also, look at drum mowers. Fast, and less moving parts, and a lot cheaper!!
[TUBE]_KQh_9q7GzU[/TUBE] ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: allisbred
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2019 at 5:46am
| If you fertilize that grass, you will be glad to have the discbine. I do about the same acres of hay in alfalfa and grass. 1st cutting grass can be brutal when it goes down (fescue is worse). We modified (2) NH haybines and they still only are fair at best in thick down wet grass hay (standing hay, they do great). JMO |
Posted By: albatros_3
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2019 at 6:21am
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Discbine over anything is my choice, but cost is a big driver for me. When you find a cheap one, it probably needs lots of $$$ in repairs. Even cheap haybines should be avoided. I learned the hard way with the NH 469 I had. The downtime for repairs just didn't make it worth it. I am currently running two drum mowers on 17 acres of grass hay. In 2020, the plans are to move up to 32 acres so I hope I can keep up. The down side to the drum mower is the lack of conditioning and the smaller widths found on the machines. I have yet been able drive faster than the mower could handle. Even damp hay gets mowed with ease. If you can, go for the discbine. |
Posted By: rw
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2019 at 6:44am
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I'd recommend a disc mower conditioner for speed and ability to run in down grass and thatch that plugs a sickle. They help you stay on schedule mowing and drying due to higher ground speed. I expect the tractor will burn a bit more fuel per hour but per acre it probably balances out. Be aware of the potential for a catastrophic cutter bar/gearbox damage either when you are using one or buying a used machine. Our area has granite stones thanks to the glaciers. They worst ones for a disc mower are the size of a soccer ball and might have worked their way to the surface. Disks that have some sort of shear protection are on many of the newer machines and they are the only thing I would consider. Advice I received and follow is to mow a little higher with the Disk machine like three or four inches stubble. "There is more trouble than hay in that lower level." This has kept me damage free for years. That said a 488 New Holland on 30 acres is probably OK and they are the reliable and affordable to maintain. The swath laid down is fluffed up and loose and even. The disk sort of puts down little windrows. First choice for me is a disk conditioner with cutter bar shear protection of some sort. Second would be a 488 that is almost new and with non clog guards. I'd have a hard time spending/risking money on any other machine, might consider a custom operator. rw
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Posted By: cabinhollow
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2019 at 6:52am
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I have been using drum mowers for over 30 years. This is the one I have now. 6' 11" cut, it will cut as much per hour as a 9' discbine.  |
Posted By: allisbred
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2019 at 8:21am
| I will say this— about 5 years ago we had a 12 acre field of fertilized 1st cutting fesque that was lodged terrible. Started with the 489 and was all the way down to 1st on the 185. We tried our old MC rotary scythe until it wrapped up and Burt a bearing. Neighbor came in with 150hp tractor and a JD MoCo and dropped about 5 acres before burning up the clutch. He wasn’t cutting much faster toward the end and made a heck of a mess with it just pushing over the grass. Went back to the 489 NH and finished. Had a cleaner cut with the 489. |
Posted By: westfork
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2019 at 8:26am
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I went back to a sickle this past year. For me there was no advantage to the disc. My fields are such that 5 mph is tops. Can do that with a sickle. No more broken glass. No more wondering when the disc gears/bearings are going to let go,$$. Can run the tractor in E pto, or use a lower hp tractor, cut my fuel bill way down. With a sickle the field looks like it just came from the barbershop. Have considered a drum mower for ease of maintenance. No other advantage that I can think of for my operation. So sickle it is for me.
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Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2019 at 10:29am
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Discbine makes cutting hay fun again! I can shove enough hay into it to make a 8030 talk. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: bauerd44
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2019 at 12:46pm
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We still use a sickle mower conditioner with stub on stub guards. Run at 5 mph and do not plug. Maybe we are just lucky. ------------- Missouri Allis-Chalmers Club CA Allis, 175 Allis, 185 Allis |
Posted By: ac fleet
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2019 at 1:00pm
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The disk thingies seam to be the most used around here, BUT as already stated, they expensive, ALSO expensive to run! Last hay I did was in 1999 and I used a jd I dont remember the model, but it was 9' and at the time I only had the ih 560 to work with. Yes they plug a lot, but so do sickle mowers, and combines!--anything with a sickle will plug. I would still vote for the haybine! --- LOTS cheaper to buy and run! ------------- http://machinebuildersnetwork.com/ |
Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2019 at 2:53pm
Same with me I cut all my hay with a New Holland 456 trailer mower,pulled by a 31 HP Yanmar YM 330.I can steady cut in 5th gear at 4 1/2 miles an hour could run faster but rather take it easy on me and the equipment.The key to using a sickle bar is a very sharp sickle and know how to set the mower up.For the cost of some of these mowing outfits and the size tractor it takes to pull one,I can put in a couple more hours a day with the money I save on equipment and fuel.Mower cost me $500,tractor cost me $2000 20 years ago and neither has cost me much $$$ other than normal maintenance.
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westfork wrote:Posted By: Mikez
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2019 at 3:11pm
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Few things to consider. Are you a patient easy going guy. Are you going to want to cut the whole 25 acres at once. Gues what I mean. I see guys around here buy cheap haybines but have more on there plate then can handle and fly around and destroy them. But if your going to go out and take it easy and mow to what your haybine can handle. I started doing hay with sickle bar then haybine and now discbine and I personally don't think I'd go back. No matter what you choose your gana want to look at cutter bar and roller condition. If you go with discbine the newer the better for the fact that over the years they've done a lot of changes for the better. I think the new idea has one shaft driving all the turtles where the new Hollands each one is separate which saves you a little, if you hit something it only busts that one. Prolly wouldn't hurt to check the oil in each one of the little gear boxes for metal. |
Posted By: allisbred
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2019 at 6:32pm
| I always thought if they would design a haybine reel that had variable speed and settings on the go that it would be a nice set up for a small operator. I don’t know how the self propelled units are designed as you don’t see many in this area because the get stuck fairly easy. |
Posted By: HD6GTOM
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2019 at 7:54pm
| I have a 488 New Holland that dad bought new in 1977. It still cuts great. I rebuilt the wobble box when I got it over 20 years ago. I have replaced all the guards once and replaced all the sections with serrated chromed sections two times. I put regular guards on it, not the more expensive ones. It has cut hundreds of acres of hay for me and cut many hundreds of acres of hay for dad. I did replace the real drive belt on it last year. I believe the one I took off was the original belt. This machine has set outside since it was new. Yes it will plug up once in a great while. Would I buy another? YES I would not be afraid to buy another. I pull mine with a series 4 D17 diesel. |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2019 at 7:54pm
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Neighbors can cut 150-175 acres in a day with their discbine. If video posting was easier I’d show a video of me cutting shoulder tall sorghum Sudan grass in 2nd in high range with the 8030. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2019 at 7:59pm
| We use a New Holland 499. It cuts very nice the only time it's plugged is when it picked up a tire in a ditch. It easily mows a 160 acre field. It'll swing left or right far enough to clear the duals on the JD7800. The hydraulic drive is great no ujoints to tear up turning. |
Posted By: allisrutledge
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2019 at 9:28pm
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I've had mostly hesston haybines 1010,1110 and now I got a 1320 discbine and a late model 488. NH with stub guards. If you can afford a discbine and can get a good used one I don't think you will ever regret your purchase. Good luck ------------- Allis Chalmers still exist in my mind and barns |
Posted By: wekracer
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2019 at 9:50pm
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I used to cut with a D17 IV and 488 NH. About 10 years ago we bought a used 13’ NH center pivot. It has individual gear boxes on each pod. We cut about 150 acres a year. The only expense so far has been knives at $2 each. We pretty well replace knives every year. It makes the 8050 work but I can cut 15 acres in the morning in an hour and a half before work and bale the next day. The same field would have take 4 hours and 3 days with the old 488. Plus i love mowing hay in the 8050 cab as opposed to the the D17. Dad and I have discussed fuel consumption. We don’t think the 8050 burns much more fuel than the old CA and 7’ sickle that dad mowed with when he was young. I will never go back to a sickle machine. They were great for their time but the new disk mowers are so much nicer. Below is a video I took this spring in 4’ mixed grass hay running 7 mpg (6 low on the power shift). It made right at 100 80# square bales per acre. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kMXkAUhpkvs" rel="nofollow - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kMXkAUhpkvs |
Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2019 at 6:35am
That had to be the biggest CA fuel hog in history.(LOL)
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Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2019 at 8:28am
On a per acre basis, I wonder how far off it really is?
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Posted By: allisbred
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2019 at 8:49am
| I wonder as well. I burn about 3 gallons to do 10 acres in the 185 with a 9’ haybine ~2 hours of run time. Time would change some depending on how thick it is but that’s cutting 2nd gear hi. |
Posted By: BillinAlberta
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2019 at 9:21am
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I also use a drum mower.Kuhn PZ170 model so about 6 foot cut. Redoing the whole underside with new bearings ,blade holders and saucers was cheaper than one disc assembly on the neighbors JD disc mower. I mow 30 acres of alfalfa and rocks every year.
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Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2019 at 9:48am
This right here. Amazing how many people know how to hook up to a cutter bar machine and just go. And that's it. Knowing how to set one up goes a long way
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Posted By: Jim NEIN
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2019 at 5:30pm
| Don't get a New Idea. 2 neighbors have nothing but trouble with theirs. |
Posted By: wekracer
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2019 at 8:06pm
I can mow all our hay without fueling the tractor. It probably burns 50-60 gallons. I don’t know how many acres it is exactly. More than 100 for sure. Roughly 1/2 gallon per acre. I know with a D17 and the 488 NH an 8 acre field would take 3 1/2-4 hours and would burn close to a 1/4 tank. So roughly 1/2 gallon per acre. These are estimates but as T Bone said. Not far off on gallons per acre. I would guess we burn more with the disk bine but not a lot more. |
Posted By: Joe(TX)
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2019 at 8:58pm
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I have had a couple of NH mower conditioners. They will run with a lower HP tractor than a disc mower. I run 90+ HP tractors now so it is not a problem I am sold on my disc mower since I can run faster and have less problems from clogging due to fire ant mounds. Probably not a problem further north. ------------- 1970 190XT, 1973 200, 1962 D-19 Diesel, 1979 7010, 1957 WD45, 1950 WD, 1961 D17, Speed Patrol, D14, All crop 66 big bin, 180 diesel, 1970 170 diesel, FP80 forklift. Gleaner A |
Posted By: Mikez
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2019 at 9:17pm
| Joe maybe not fire ants but woodchucks. Same results. Some cursing lol |
Posted By: captaindana
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 5:18am
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Wow Wekracer what a hay hog you have there! What model are you pulling there? We have to replace our 489 and 492 eventually and after seeing your short clip I’d think I had better lay off buying orange tractors and snow blowers and tillers and wagons and building pole sheds and balers and twin rake setups and focus on a discbine! 😳 What am I waiting for? Thanks! Dana ------------- Blue Skies and Tail Winds Dana |
Posted By: wekracer
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 5:49am
| Captain I understand. So many toys, so little money. We have a 1431, 13’. It is an older flail model. We wanted rubber rolls which I think is a 1432 but we couldn’t pass up the deal we got on it. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 7:17am
This too.....I'm surprised a bit by the suggestion of putting a 185 on a discbine. Not that it won't do it, but I'd think you'd want a little more to take advantage of what one can do.
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Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 7:25am
| Discbines take more power. They're also harder on drivelines. I had a friends DX101 take the flexplate out of his 826 hydro twice before switching it to the 1066. |
Posted By: allisrutledge
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 7:59am
Ca at 20 hp with 6 ft cut---- 8050 at 140 hp÷ 20 Ca hp = 7x6ft =a 42 ft cut sickle. I think if they used the same power required equipment the 8050 would be more fuel efficient. Sure would get finished quicker. You got to compare the same mower. Yea I know that's crazy but how wide of cut discbine would a Ca pull ? 2ft- 3 ft? In good hay. Just thinkin ------------- Allis Chalmers still exist in my mind and barns |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 8:35am
Hmm...well, since we're just thinking and it 6 months 'til hay makin' time.... I don't think of it that way at all, as in having to compare the same mower. In this case, we're talking acres mowed per investment in fuel. To me, that's the story, and the reason why I phrased that "question" the way that I did. That's just me. More than one way to think about it.
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Posted By: Brad in WA
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 8:49am
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Posted By: DanWi
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 11:03pm
| If you are getting the hay cut on time the 185 will do just fine with a 9ft discbine. The past couple of years because of all the rain we have had to finish 1st crop around the 1st of July to get dry hay and with the 190xt you could tell the mower was back there running in 6th gear. |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2019 at 7:32pm
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We continue to use our AC390 haybine. Recent upgrades were tiger teeth knives, bolts instead of rivets, and new guards. Cuts the thick orchard grass much better. We cut less than 30 acres each cutting. It has been a good machine but eventually it will need to be replaced. Ive run the NH discbine for my best friend a lot. It is a flail machine and is an absolute mowing machine. We will probably upgrade to a nice used one some day. Looked a really nice one this summer, but it was $14k!!! Ouch. Hard to justify with the limited acres we have. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: Mikez
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2019 at 2:43pm
| When I first bought the discbine. Was hired to do some custom straw baleing. So I had done a 4 acre hay field of my own then went to the spring wheat, after about another 4 or 5 acres found an abandoned guide wire anchor and it took one of the gear boxes to one of the turtles. Luckily the power company paid for it. Other then that haven't had any issues with it. Ten or eleven years now. |