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Heated Shop Cement Floor

Printed From: Unofficial Allis
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Forum Name: Shops, Barns, Varmints, and Trucks
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=166642
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Topic: Heated Shop Cement Floor
Posted By: Kurzy
Subject: Heated Shop Cement Floor
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2019 at 5:35pm
  Howdy,
   Just getting ideas in order for spring. Need to build a shop, thinking heated cement floor. Some of you must have one. Just need the good and the bad for starters. 

Thanks Kurzy



Replies:
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2019 at 5:45pm
Check out some this old house videos, those guys put them in just about every project they build...Wink

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Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!


Posted By: trace
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2019 at 6:35pm
hydroinic heated  floor can do with water heater and pumps if not too big. wonderful heat. put two layers of 2" foam under flr.

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1955 WD-45 WIDE FRONT W/ TRIP
LOADER


Posted By: Bill_MN
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2019 at 7:11pm
There are some nice videos on youtube of laying out different types of systems. Neighbor has it in his farm shop, laying on warm concrete sure beats cold and damp floor and your tools and parts stay bone dry.


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1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow


Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2019 at 7:52pm
The farm shop has a heated floor. And when I helped my niece build their house it has a heated floor. Heated floors are great they have a very stable heat. And are very nice to work on. The shop has a large door we drive a combine with a header on in when you open it it takes a while for the air temp to cone back up. So we also run a corn stove and a wood stove to bring the temp back quickly. Heated floors take a long time to change temp so if it's like my shop it's turned down until the day I'm actually going to be working in there I went with forced air propane. I wish I would have went with infrared heat. We have infrared in our aircraft hangers and recovery time is increadably fast. The floor is also warm and instlation can be done any time fairly cheep


Posted By: DanWi
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2019 at 9:25pm
We have a heated floor in our shop, keep it between 50 and 55 degrees Your feet are warm and you can work on the floor under things. We keep the skidsteer in the shop all winter so it is ready to go to feed cattle or plow snow. When you are working in there a sweat shirt is warm enough and if you are doing something outside and going in and out it isn't so warm with winter clothes, If you would be working in there all day you can turn it up to short sleeve temps. Floor heat is pretty adaptable you can run it off outside boiler, gas or electric water heater or a small inside boiler. You could even set it up to take heat off a wood stove.


Posted By: HaroldOmaha
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2019 at 11:15pm
I have a Geo thermal in floor heat + air working off 2 wells. 40 x 52. back of barn is in the ground about 3 feet.( southwest Omaha ) average daily cost $1.92 for this year. Have 2 -10x 10 doors and 1 - 12 x 14 don't keep the doors open too long when its cold, but seems to recover heat wise real quick. so far it's holding at 60 degrees. 12 x 28 tool-work room stays about 62 degrees.


Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2019 at 11:26pm
Can't beat a heated floor... I put down PEX before pouring the floors of my enveloping addition... the south porch, and the north and east basements all have PEX tubing in 'em.  Having insulation under the slab, and around the foundation, make all the difference in the world.

My main shop project is still amidst the site engineering, but when done, I'll actually have foam topped with 4" of compacted lime, inside which will be PEX tubing, then a 6" reinforced concrete slab that stops about a foot from all the outside walls.  This is where my PEX will come up, and once my sweeps and manifolds are up, I'll fill it with pea gravel and use just a few inches of concrete on top to 'seal' it.  Since I don't drive anything heavy that close to the wall, it'll allow me to easily break out the area if I need to get in there to work on the PEX.


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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.


Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2019 at 8:56am
Take pictures of the grid  BEFORE you pour the concrete ! Be sure to have reference points. Otherwise when some 'helper' decides to drill a hole to fasten a tire changer down YOU won't have to fix the PEX.....
Saw one install, just a 40G gas hot water heater, NO pump... worked same a 'G' engine cooling system though I'm betting a small pump works faster.


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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water


Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2019 at 9:43am
Jay just noted one of the two reasons why I'm putting my big shop's PEX down in the filler material BELOW the slab, but above the insulation...

First... when you drill into the concrete, if the PEX is BELOW the concrete, chances of hitting it are much less.  Second... if the concrete expands, contracts, or cracks and shifts, and the PEX is BELOW the concrete, the shifting of concrete will not shear the tubing.

And one other thought... the tubing is MUCH less expensive than it was 15 years ago... and much less expensive than the concrete.  Putting tubing down before a pour doesn't commit you to heating it with that tubing, and it doesn't LIMIT you to heating it hydronically- it simply gives you the option.  You can heat it with IR burners on the ceiling, or a forced air furnace.  Furthermore, hydronic doesn't care WHERE the heat comes from... as noted previously, you can use any old water heater, and for control and circulation, just put an old-school mercury-switch thermostat on the wall controlling a relay that powers the pump.

My neighbor's attached garage is an excellent example... he's got most of 30 x 36 floor less a spot for his basement stairway and kitchen/hallway doorstep.  He's got about 1000 square feet of concrete, and under it, 400ft of 1/2" pex .  The first loop goes all the way around the perimeter, about six inches in from the edge under the overhead door seals, and about eight edges from the outer walls and back yard door.  The second loop goes back and forth for two passes on 1 ft intervals at the overhead door end, and the third loop fills in the rest of the floor. They're all about 110ft total, fed with a simple manifold and a 3gpm pump.  The water heater is a 15 gallon, and temp is set on the absolute-lowest-setting.

Concentrating more heat towards the edges makes up for the fact that most of the floor's heat is lost there.  Concentrating heat under the door thresholds helps keep the doors from freezing to the ground.

The water heater is a high-efficiency unit, with it's exhaust in PVC going out the east wall.   Most building codes will require a furnace or water heater to be elevated a certain height off the floor... this is so that motor fuel vapors can't concentrate high enough to contact the burner or pilot light, and cause an explosion...

As Jay noted, thermosyphon WILL work on hydronic heating, however, the water heater's highest point MUST be below the floor, and to work effectively, there must be only one loop, and the water heater's cutoff point MUST be able to go all the way down to whatever room temperature you want to limit to.  Better control and efficiency is to run a for-purpose pump with a relay and thermostat.


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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.


Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2019 at 9:48am
Dave brings up a GREAT point !!!
Use SEVERAL 'zones' NOT just one !  Better to have 4, 100' runs than 1,400'. That way if one pipe gets a leak, the other 3 will keep working !!


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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water


Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2019 at 9:56am
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

Dave brings up a GREAT point !!!
Use SEVERAL 'zones' NOT just one !  Better to have 4, 100' runs than 1,400'. That way if one pipe gets a leak, the other 3 will keep working !!


That's one part of it, but theres other part that are important:

1) pipes don't flow water for free... they have restriction which increases with length.  When you run three short loops, the restriction is substantially less than one long loop.

2) heat loss from a tube is a function of temperature differential.  Temperature of the coolant is highest at it's first point, thus tubing will lose it's heat more at the BEGINNING of the loop, than at the end.  That means a one-loop system will distribute more heat in the earliest-fed areas, than in the latter.

3) Volume is more important to even heating than velocity or pressure, as it's the volume of water carrying the energy, not the speed or pressure of the water.


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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.


Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2019 at 9:56am
1200 sq ft. 12ft ceiling. Thermostat maintains 62 degrees. 1000 gallon summer fill will cover the heating season in east central Iowa. Actually around 750 gals used. Set the temperature and forget it. One could add auxiliary heat you want it warmer but I'm comfortable with set up. Can't wear heavy boots while working cuz it's too warm. The downside is you can't use programmable thermostat the change temps quickly. I just love this set up. Water heater also works well but I did not go that route.


Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2019 at 11:31am

I love my in floor heat, set at 53,havent checked but have heard the ceiling temp would also be at 53 unlike forced air.

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2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040   R50       


Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2019 at 11:34am
Originally posted by plummerscarin plummerscarin wrote:

1200 sq ft. 12ft ceiling. Thermostat maintains 62 degrees. 1000 gallon summer fill will cover the heating season in east central Iowa. Actually around 750 gals used. Set the temperature and forget it. One could add auxiliary heat you want it warmer but I'm comfortable with set up. Can't wear heavy boots while working cuz it's too warm. The downside is you can't use programmable thermostat the change temps quickly. I just love this set up. Water heater also works well but I did not go that route.


What year cyclone?? Maybe looks clean?

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2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040   R50       


Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2019 at 11:43am
Originally posted by DaveKamp DaveKamp wrote:

Jay just noted one of the two reasons why I'm putting my big shop's PEX down in the filler material BELOW the slab, but above the insulation...

First... when you drill into the concrete, if the PEX is BELOW the concrete, chances of hitting it are much less.  Second... if the concrete expands, contracts, or cracks and shifts, and the PEX is BELOW the concrete, the shifting of concrete will not shear the tubing.

And one other thought... the tubing is MUCH less expensive than it was 15 years ago... and much less expensive than the concrete.  Putting tubing down before a pour doesn't commit you to heating it with that tubing, and it doesn't LIMIT you to heating it hydronically- it simply gives you the option.  You can heat it with IR burners on the ceiling, or a forced air furnace.  Furthermore, hydronic doesn't care WHERE the heat comes from... as noted previously, you can use any old water heater, and for control and circulation, just put an old-school mercury-switch thermostat on the wall controlling a relay that powers the pump.

My neighbor's attached garage is an excellent example... he's got most of 30 x 36 floor less a spot for his basement stairway and kitchen/hallway doorstep.  He's got about 1000 square feet of concrete, and under it, 400ft of 1/2" pex .  The first loop goes all the way around the perimeter, about six inches in from the edge under the overhead door seals, and about eight edges from the outer walls and back yard door.  The second loop goes back and forth for two passes on 1 ft intervals at the overhead door end, and the third loop fills in the rest of the floor. They're all about 110ft total, fed with a simple manifold and a 3gpm pump.  The water heater is a 15 gallon, and temp is set on the absolute-lowest-setting.

Concentrating more heat towards the edges makes up for the fact that most of the floor's heat is lost there.  Concentrating heat under the door thresholds helps keep the doors from freezing to the ground.

The water heater is a high-efficiency unit, with it's exhaust in PVC going out the east wall.   Most building codes will require a furnace or water heater to be elevated a certain height off the floor... this is so that motor fuel vapors can't concentrate high enough to contact the burner or pilot light, and cause an explosion...

As Jay noted, thermosyphon WILL work on hydronic heating, however, the water heater's highest point MUST be below the floor, and to work effectively, there must be only one loop, and the water heater's cutoff point MUST be able to go all the way down to whatever room temperature you want to limit to.  Better control and efficiency is to run a for-purpose pump with a relay and thermostat.



   As a cement finisher I love the idea of the tubes in sand, there is nothing worse then finishing cement on top of foam insulation. I also like the idea of the rebar not touching the tubes.

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2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040   R50       


Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2019 at 1:29pm
N.G. It is a 68 with a 390. I had a repaint done in the 80's and now it needs floors.
My tubing is half inch pex using six loops not over 300 ft. using a single pump and single zone. As stated the hottest water leaves the boiler and begins the circuit on the perimeter of the building. The first two runs are 6 inches apart and the others are 12 inches apart.
I had two buildings done this way. The contractor for the first building did not want the tubing stapled to the foam therefore the installation was difficult cuz it was tied to wire. And I suspect the tubing is in the concrete not near the bottom. The second one I used a different contractor who was fine with it stapled to the foam and it stayed.
I have never heard of anyone putting it in sand.


Posted By: DonBC
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2019 at 6:28pm
You can get thermostats designed for in-floor heating. They use a floor temperature sensor in conjunction with the room sensor so that the floor doesn't overheat before the room temperature is satisfied. I just completed designs for a child care facility that wanted warm floors. Because there are  several rooms there are 31 loops any where from 125' to 310'. The majority average about 250'.

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Jack of all trades, master of none


Posted By: DonBC
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2019 at 6:32pm
i forgot to add that you want the loops under air pressure during the concrete pour in the event that a loop gets damaged during the pour. A lot easier to find and fix than later after the concrete has set.

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Jack of all trades, master of none


Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2019 at 7:18pm
Originally posted by DonBC DonBC wrote:

i forgot to add that you want the loops under air pressure during the concrete pour in the event that a loop gets damaged during the pour. A lot easier to find and fix than later after the concrete has set.

X2


Posted By: DanWi
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2019 at 10:47pm
When we did ours we attached the tubing to the wire mesh and then we poured concrete over the top. I dont remember what it was but it seemed like when we did it there was some kind of recommendation for how long each run should be.


Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 12:06pm
Since this is the subject, I have tubes in my shop floor but it was installed 30 years ago- just a countinous piping 3 ft apart -30-50ft shop, 1 hook up in and 1 out - I have a Hardy wood furnace to heat it and the house but darn it eats the wood , finally unhooked the shop- so my question and thoughts are now is this- was thinking of hooking up a 40 gallon electric hot water heater in the system as a helper to heat the water, the pump on the wood furnace would be the pump as it is hooked to the thermostat already , would run the water into the water heater from the wood furnace then it goes to the floor and return to the wood furnace , the furnace temp is set at 150, the water heater would be set at the lowest setting- will need check valves on in and out to the water heater - why wouldn't this work ? Just looking for opinions and advise , thanks


Posted By: tadams(OH)
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 1:58pm
WhenI put up my garage & shop, building size is 28' X 56' with 9' ceiling I used a 50 gallon electric hot water heater to heat it and it worked great, when I added the house I put raidiant floor heat in the basement and we love it set at 68 degrees it keeps the main floor warm and the furance for the main floor doesn't run till it get below freezing outside. We love it, working in the shop your feet don't get as tired on a heated floor.


Posted By: bradley6874
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 2:11pm
Doug it would work as a back up but not a helper the 150 boiler temperature won’t let the water. Heater come on now if the fire goes out the water will cool of and the water heater will come on and help keep from freezing   Ps we are building house now it gets radiant through out but also getting a hot water coil in with the ac system radiant is slow and steady but if ya need to warm up the house quick turn the stat up on the ac and get it warm quick

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You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul


Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 11:09pm
Another thing one can do... if the floor isn't subjected to extreme focused pressure...

We have a building off the corner of the garage that was originally an ice house, and it was originally located down the hill, not far from the milkhouse.  It was moved closer to the house and used as a pony stable oh... probably 4 decades prior to us buying this farm.

She wanted it to be turned into a garden shed... and half of it, as a hen-house for our layers.

I tilled up the dirt floor, leveled it, and compacted it with plate compactor.  Then I put 2" foam down, then 2" of lime, with one PEX circuit in it... then a little more lime, then we brought in barrow-loads of used paver brickes.  My kids placed the bricks close, then I brought in bags of premix mortar, dry, and dumped it out on the brick, then swept it around with a broom, 'till it was full to the bricks.  Then I got the garden hose and misted it down really good, and walked away for a few days.  That resulted in a nice, solid brick floor.

on the wall, is a 500w engine heater, with a 2gpm electric pump, and about two-quarts' worth of 4" PVC as a reservoir/expansion tank.  The whole thing runs off a relay and an ordinary thermostat set to 40F.  With insulation in the walls, and vaulted ceiling (only 12ft to the peak) and south-facing windows, the shed/henhouse would stay ABOVE 20F on a -20 night.  We never had problems with our birds freezing... and with the water trough being a constant-feed/overflow with heat-tape in the drain, they always had fresh water 24/7.

Time to clean it out and prepare it for a new flock, though.  Last four birds finally aged out a year ago this time... been too busy to start over.


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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.


Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2019 at 7:41am
I like to use radiant heat. The one that is a 4" tube that hangs 10 or 12 ft. above the floor and runs the length of my shop.
I don't use my shop every day, so I turn the heat down when I'm not using it.

Dusty


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917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"


Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2019 at 7:42am
Whats the brand Dusty ? What does it use for energy ?


Posted By: TimNearFortWorth
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2019 at 9:12am
We ran radiant on NatGas in WY, large wellhead shop full of forgings with pallet racks 3 & 4 high. When boys pulled in at 4-5:00 AM with Power Strokes via the overhead doors originally set up to drive tractor trailers through, recovery time was truly impressive as all that iron on the shelf held that heat. Pulling equipment down off racks it was always warm to the touch.
20-30 minutes later, could hear the burners going off as shop was back to 50+, this when we were well below zero in January.
Floor was tolerable for working and we rarely had a jacket on during the day.
Was not cheap to install but payback was worth it vs. the efficiency of forced air used previously.


Posted By: Kurzy
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 7:11am
  Howdy All,
  O Boy lots of great ideas! What different ways to go. That's what i wanted to hear. Hopefully by spring will have some plan.

Thanks Kurzy


Posted By: Kurzy
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 7:36am
  Howdy,
 After reading again and again all posts I come up with 1 question. By putting the pex tubing under the slab or down so deep in the cement don't you loose or slow heating?

Thanks Kurzy


Posted By: cabinhollow
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 8:30am
Originally posted by Kurzy Kurzy wrote:

  Howdy,
 After reading again and again all posts I come up with 1 question. By putting the pex tubing under the slab or down so deep in the cement don't you loose or slow heating?

Thanks Kurzy

The slab is used as a heat sink.
Very slow warm up, very slow cool down.


Posted By: tadams(OH)
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 2:12pm
the styrofoam under the cement keep you from lossing heat and cement puts off a lots of heat for faster recovery when you open the door. I aways fire up my boiler around October 1st so I don't have to start with a cold slab of concrete.


Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 3:53pm
you need to remember ... 'heat goes to cold' for 99% of all thermal problems EXCEPT how icy cold female  toes find YOUR warm body.


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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water


Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 5:38pm

One more thing with forced air, way more dust, hate dust on my clean parts!

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2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040   R50       


Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 5:57pm
Originally posted by DougG DougG wrote:

Whats the brand Dusty ? What does it use for energy ?

The first one I got for taking it down, it was somewhat in the way. I didn't know what I was going to do with it when I took it down. A couple years latter I built out first shop-garage and I installed it there, and was very happy with it.
In 2012 we moved and built a new shop there. I wanted the same type of heater in that new shop. I shopped around a little and bought one from W.W. Grainger. If I remember right it was built in Michigan. I use LPG for it, I'm sure you can use natural gas in it, and maybe fuel oil.

Dusty


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917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"


Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2019 at 10:01pm
The key element to hydronic comfort, is the fact that you have heat at floor level, going UP.  Heating concrete means you have a very large solid mass at a comfortable temperature.

Very few of you will remember, but our ancestors had a neat trick for staying warm in bed at night... build a fire in the fireplace early, get it roaring, and stack some soapstone bricks around the front of the fire.  The fireplace, chimney, and mantle are all stone, and they're warming up, as are the bricks in front.  When it was time for bed, a brick or two was put in a metal container on a stick, and slid under the bed... and it warmed the bed pretty well.

Now, think about walking into an unheated shop... on a 15F day.  Close the door, and fire up a heater or shop furnace... let it burn for an hour, and let's say the room temp makes it all the way to 70F.  The heated air will all flow straight up to the ceiling, and as the furnace runs, will eventually get it so that down near the floor, it'll be at the proper temperature.

The floor, however, will still be VERY cold, as will be the soles of your boots, and your feet... very soon, your ankles, then your shins, then knees will be cold, and at that point, you'll start having back pains, your hips won't move, and your arms and hands will be unuseable, even though you might be sweating out the top of your head.

Warming the floor does NOT change the fact that heat rises, but it DOES mean that you're not standing on an ice-cold floor with a gas furnace set at 70F.

You can run a forced-air heater of ANY type, and the concrete will not warm up substantially... by simple thermal stratification, the floor will ALWAYS be coldest part of the shop, even IF you insulate beneath the slab.  Radiant heaters shining down from the ceiling WILL heat the floor eventually... but not evenly.  Changing out the air in the shop (by opening the doors) WILL be recovered fairly quickly by a radiant tube ceiling heat system, but only the first solid object that it sees.  The concrete directly beneath a truck will not warm up until LONG AFTER the truck has warmed up, too.

The concrete floor is an incredible mass, which means it takes lots of energy to CHANGE it's temperature.  The amount of 'thermal mass' in an object determines how much energy it will hold, and of course, it will not gain or lose that energy very quickly... so once you get the floor up to temperature, it will tend to STAY at that temperature, even with air changeover events...

And you're still standing on a nice, warm floor.  Your tools will stay warm, you won't have condensation forming on everything... you won't have sweating, rusting machine tools, tractor parts, engine blocks...  they'll be warm and dry.

I always recommend to EVERYBODY... even if it's just a pole barn... to put down styrofoam, then a couple inches of compactible fill, with PEX in the fill, then put in the wire or rebar on chairs, and pour the slab.  The perimeter can ALWAYS be finished around the last half-a-foot with a small mixer and trowel later, but get insulation and tubing under that slab, and later on, when you want to put heat in the floor, it goes in easy and fast, and works really well.

It does NOT matter what your 'primary source' of heat is.  A wood-burner, a coal furnace, waste oil, propane, fuel oil... even coolant from a generator engine (it's just throwing away heat anyway)  will warm that floor.

IF you feel need to manage the temperature of the floor with automation, the process is really easy-  when you pour the slab, take an extra 10' scrap of PEX, plug the far end, and place it into the slab about 9 feet.  Once the concrete has cured, you can slip a temperature sensing probe up that PEX, into the slab, and use that as feedback to control your heat distribution system.  Works a whole lot better than a wall thermostat when excessive zone temperature is a problem.




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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.


Posted By: Kurzy
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2019 at 7:39am
  Howdy,
   One more question. Cost. 28 x 36 floor. Just  ball park figure. Doing yourself or contractor doing it?

Thanks Kurzy


Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2019 at 9:26am
That's at least 12 cubic yards of concrete ( FULL, BIG truck) !!!  That's a LOT of concrete to deal with AND you'll want it level,smooth and done right the FIRST time.
It's one job best left to the pros..... If you're in good health, you can shave coins off other areas of a build to make up for the cost.


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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water


Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2020 at 11:37pm
If it's a workshop, I wouldn't go thinner than 6"... I calculated 18 yd... 6" thick... 28*36=1008.  Divide that in half for a 6" slab, and you got 504 cubic feet... divide by 27 and it's 18ish yards.

For that size, I'd pour in three segments... I'd pour left and right sides 12 wide x 28 long, and finish those, then come back to pour the center section at 12x28... saw cut them down 14ft down the center...

A 12yd load is pushing road and soil limits for many situations... and the square footage will require lots.  For a 12x36 pour, I'd recommend five sets of hands... two on screed, two on rakes, and one on the chute, and following behind, at least two finishers.  If you pour the first two slabs about  two-and-a-half, mebbie three hours apart, your finishers will be on the first slab, then floating the second about the time the first one is in a wait... and after that, they'll be back-and-forth between the two, checking on the first, while following the second.  I'd strip the forms two days later, let them shrink for about two weeks, then drill for rebar ties, lay reinforcement, and pour the last strip.  Using the cured slabs for your screed surface, you'll get a nice, even result. 

You're looking at 6yds per segment, so multiply that by your local rate.  Where I'm at, that can be anywhere from 80 to 130/yd for a 3500psi (@ 5 slump) mix delivered to my property.


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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.


Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2020 at 3:06am
I agree with Dave to a point, I poured a LOT of mud in my lifetime and I do like he says, pour the two outer pieces first and then finish with the center.  I'd drill holes in the 2x8s (frames) and put re-rod sticking IN the side pours at least 4' and out so the center piece 'connects' to the side pours.  Again, at least 4'.  This way your rod is IN the concrete and you don't have to drill.
I wouldn't cut the sections either, IF they crack, that's not gonna help and it's an unnecessary step.
Around here, the operator from the concrete company is the chute man, so you can take him out of the equation.  You can get by with one raker and have the other guy with a shovel.  You'll need one guy on a bull float almost as you go along.  He's gonna be the most important as he's GOTTA KNOW what he's doing!!
If it's not being poured in HOT weather, you need to have a finisher starting when you're half poured.  Otherwise it'll get away from him, but now a days they are using a machine and it's easier, faster and you can wait longer.  I don't think they do as good a job as a man finishing though.  They don't get the rock down and a guy can.
I didn't see where anyone mentioned what bag mix to use?  If you're going to go 6" deep ( I would ), then you should use 6 bag mix.  Most guys will tell you 5 is good enough, but for the little bit extra, the 6 will give you a better surface and will outlive you!
And DO NOT let anyone talk you into any expansion joint material.  Pour concrete to concrete.  That stuff will eventually rot away and make good places for stuff to fall into and weeds to grow and for water to get into and expand causing problems.  The idea behind it is OK, but is worthless.  ALL 3 pieces are going to rise and fall at the same time so you won't need it.
Enough ranting, I'll follow along and try to help if you have any other questions, but concrete was my specialty!


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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17


Posted By: Sherman Farms
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2020 at 3:47pm
Just poured a 60x136 foot floor with 2 inch insulation and tubing. Cost for 150yds of concrete, insulation,tubing,labor was just short of $40,000. This building is connected to our shop, which has the same heating system,it works great and keeps you comfortable all day long. The upfront costs a little more,but in long run its worth it.The new building will house our AC collection and some our newer Agco equipment.

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B, C, RC, 3 wc,2 wd,3 wd45, d15, d17, d19, d21, 190, 440, 7040, 918 backhoe, 12 roto balers, 7 60 combines, 40, 66,2 72,90 super, sp100, Gleaner E, F3, 3 L2, R62, and much more


Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2020 at 3:50pm
Sherman Farms,
Thanks for the costs! I would like to have something about 1/4 that size. Heated floor would be on my list too. 
Regards,
 Chris


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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.


Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2020 at 3:53pm
re:...
I would like to have something about 1/4 that size.

gee, I'm thinkin it about 1/2 what I need considering what the 'contractor' dropped off last month...



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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water


Posted By: Kurzy
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 7:35am
   

    Howdy,
   All you fellows are great info. I got a much better idea now. So going to the MATE show in Billings this February. It is Montana Ag Trade Expo show. All contractors, building and much more to do with Farm/ranch services. Been told by others that went make sure you go last day of show, thats the day for deals! So will be looking for new ways of doing things too. Might come back with cement slab and building!!

Thanks Kurzy


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2020 at 9:19am
Do you best to do it right the first time. A cringe at the cost can be a smile years later knowing the expense was worth it.


Posted By: tadams(OH)
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2022 at 1:24pm
  If your working on your feet all day on raidiant floor heat they don't get as tired or sore from standing all day


Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2022 at 3:23pm
I just checked with our local concrete place (east central NE) and the price is $150. a yard, what is the price in ya'lls area?


Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2022 at 12:16am
This thread was dead as of 2020. 

It was brought back up by virtue of spam posting on 7/29.


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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.


Posted By: ransesbutton
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2022 at 12:09pm
If you need an underfloor heating system, you must first take care of a quality grout finish on the floor and foundation. What kind of foundation are you planning to build for your future store? Do you want to do it yourself and without the help of professionals? Maybe one of your friends has had experience with a concrete finish, concrete floor, or concrete walkway? When we were building a boutique from scratch, we turned to https://www.almightyconstructionnw.com" rel="nofollow - almightyconstructionnw.com . The experts from this company suggested we do a concrete foundation and then granite tile. Granite slabs look expensive and spectacular. I was pleased with the way our boutique looks. What kind of business do you want to do in this store?



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