7050 - why weren’t many built?
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Topic: 7050 - why weren’t many built?
Posted By: allispicker
Subject: 7050 - why weren’t many built?
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 9:34am
Were there issues with the 7050? Why weren’t many built? What are the main differences between it and the 7060’s?
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Replies:
Posted By: DanD
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 9:51am
7030 and 7050 were first 7000 Series on the market. Only built 2 years. 7050 became 7060 with a little more hp. I think 7060 had slightly larger axles too but don't know if problem in 7050 or not. 7060 was in production clear until end of 7000 production. Also 7060 could be had with power shift while I believe no ps in 7050. Others will chime in with more info I'm sure.
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Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 9:52am
I always wondered this about the whole 7000 series, weren't many of the whole series built- 7030 + 7050 started it off , wasn't nothing wrong with them but only put therm together for a few years then jumped them up to more hp and other changes Im not aware of
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Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 10:45am
Why? because dealers did not order them... these were RADICAL in looks and off the norm for AC dealers and customers. Prior to these units everyone had a cheese box hood. (How many modern tractors have a sloped hood today like the 7030 ? About all - it was a leader again before its time as were a lot of AC stuff) The price tag for the upgrades in hydraulics and brakes and clutches and drive line was a 'sticker' shock as well. The books only recognize 1973 models but some were built in and hit the lot on 72 and hold over in 74 was told. The first one that hit our lot was met by farmers looking at the new styling like a calf looking at a new gate. There were quite a few updates to the units while becoming 7040 and 7060's . The biggest difference was a different style oil cooler, fuel setting, better remote hook ups and later a heavier torque limiter. Power shifts didn't come along til 1976.
------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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Posted By: jiminnd
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 11:11am
Had a 7030, really liked it, was a good tractor that just needed a few minor updates to 7040.
------------- 1945 C, 1949 WF and WD, 1981 185, 1982 8030, unknown D14(nonrunner)
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Posted By: allispicker
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 11:14am
This has been very informative, thank you!
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 12:59pm
Their plan was to have the Power Director AND the Power Shift transmissions available in the 7030/7050. The PST wasn't ready, and it still wasn't quite ready when the 7040-7060's came out. A-C lost a lot of time trying to work with Allison transmissions before they went out on their own and built one. Similar fate happened to International Harvester when they came out with the 5088-5288-5488. They were to have the standard (Synchro-Tri-Six) transmission and the optional full Power Shift. The PST wasn't ready until the Magnum tractor and by then Harvester went broke and sold out to Case-Tenneco.
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Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 3:50pm
So did AC build some cookie cutter tractors in-between the specific dealer orders ? Or did they just build what dealers ordered ?
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Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 4:50pm
Not to hijack this post, but what I find ironic is that when allis came out with the 7000 series, it was to cater to the latest, greatest,state of the art, modern farmer. But, at the same time period they were building the 70's run of white top Roto balers, which was to say the least, at the opposite end of the spectrum. Darrel
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Posted By: Lynn Marshall
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 5:16pm
If i'm not mistaken,7030 & 7050s had several gear selections that were actually the same speed. The 7040&7060s had some different ratios in the power director transmission to give them more of a true twenty speed selection.
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Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 5:27pm
AC lost a ton of money on the last production run of Roto balers... I sold one which was robbed of parts from a dealer close out to Ronnie Hill Farm sales for $600; Memphis Region had over 20 that went for not much more than that that were 4 years old and still new unsold. There was one in Russelville Ky if my memory serves me correct that was in a shed til the 90's...
------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 5:49pm
There were different high range speeds for the power shift.. there were two types of main shafts in the PD and some had 3d gear left out to make a 16 speed. The 7030 7050 had an issue that caused a gear to seize on the main shaft - we had 2 do it but am fuzzzy on the details - think they added a seal to better lube the gear.. There were only 2 gear speed changes that I can remember one is the mentioned range speed... seems there was one other maybe 2nd gear.
------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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Posted By: jiminnd
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 7:09pm
If I remember right there were 2 speeds of 4.2 mph. One was in high button and one on low button so you had a shift up or down from those. I think the 4,2 went to 3,8 on downshift, the 4.2 went to 5.2 on upshift. I think these were 3rd gear low range or high 1st gear, been a lot of years so my memory may be all wrong.
------------- 1945 C, 1949 WF and WD, 1981 185, 1982 8030, unknown D14(nonrunner)
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 7:31pm
4th gear slow range HIGH button was 6.8 MPH. So was 5th gear slow range LOW button and 2nd gear fast range LOW button. So, right there you have three selections that were 6.8 MPH. 5th gear slow range HIGH button was 8.5 MPH as was 2nd gear fast range HIGH button. So, there was two more duplications. Then, 3rd gear slow range LOW button was 4.2 MPH as was 1st gear fast range HIGH button. Two more duplications of 4.2 MPH. All-in-all on the 20-speed transmission you had 16 actual different speeds. These MPH numbers are for the 7030 tractor and the 7050 is similar. The sad part was there wasn't any gear selection that was 6.0 to 6.2 MPH which for my area is thee perfect speed for many tillage jobs. The 7040-60-80 rectified that situation.
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Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 7:48pm
Speaking of the "looks"...when 7000s showed up I couldn't believe how ugly they were....today I'm used to them and nothing seems odd. Maybe if they'd put a square nose like a 220 on them they'd sold. Who knows. Too late now.
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2019 at 7:03am
Dad never liked the looks of the 7000 series, especially the maroon ones. He thought the sloped hood looked too much like a 4020. I like my 7050. It does have some duplicate gears but still a great selection compared to a 190. It does need a 6 mph speed but I get along. The 7030 duplicates the 6.8 mph three times while my 7050 duplicates the same gears, they are at 7 mph instead. Mine has been a good tractor for me with no more than a remote cable, range cable, light switch, temp gauge, alternator and one injector line needed in the 20 plus years I've owned it. My brother's 7030 had a couple scored sleeves when he bought it and has been recently overhauled and ed rebuilt the injector pump. Ran great for a while but I'm suspecting a scored sleeve again. The shop my brother took it to to get overhauled used an A & I kit even though he requested an AGCO kit. They normally work on Deere because they used to be a Deere dealer and when working on Deere engines they use only Deere parts but they wouldn't use an AGCO kit for the 7030 and Deere supposedly owns A & I. Kinda disappointing after all the expense. I'll be working on it myself hopefully over winter.
The 7030 doesn't have piston oil cooling jets..... I can't remember if the 7040 did or didn't.
------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot
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Posted By: AC7060IL
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2019 at 11:27am
Timing. In short, farming economics comprise of world crop commodity marketing adjustments that coincide (or derive?) currency value(s). The new AC 7030/7050 tractors offerred a radical, but necessary advancement to embrace AC’s past 1960’s issues. Some issues were Load sensing hydraulics, safe roll-over quite/comfortable cabs, effective reliable power-shift transmission, reliable economical turbo-charged Diesel engine that encompassed inter cooling & oil/piston cooling dynamics. AC addressed, maybe better put, heavily invested in those improvements. But, the mid-late 1970s US farming economy challenged facilitation of the extra price associated with the AC improvements.
During the 1960s, Dad had switched to narrow rows(30”), co-owned a self propelled combine & grain drying facilities, plus embraced diesel power. The 1970s herbicides enabled no-till after wheat double crop soybeans. After realizing $8 soybeans during 1973-74, he seriously looked to upgrade his farm equipment. Our local AC dealer though was only able to offer him a series 3 190xt for field plowing demonstration. So I gotta think the newer 7030/7050 tractors impacted the local dealerships too. AC had numerous smaller dealerships that may not have possessed the newer improved tractors?
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2019 at 11:57am
The previous owner of my 7050 bought it new. It was hard to get a new tractor in 1974 and he bought that 7050 sight unseen and it had to be transferred from a dealer out of Iowa. Before that, from what I'm told, the farmer got to drive the new tractor on the lot before he bought it, maybe even got to try one on the farm first.
My old parts manager boss, when I worked at the CaseIH dealership, told me his father bought a 7060 because at the time he couldn't get a 4630. He was a Deere man at the time and no one had a Deere to sell let alone try at the farm at the time.... I think this was sometime in '75 or '76. Marzolf Implement brought out a 7060 for him to try on the farm so that's what he bought.
I don't remember what he said they had for a combine but by the late '70s he was on the ropes and lost it all in the '80s. Today that farmer is 87 years old, has about 1/4 the farm he had back then, has an old 1086 or 1586, a 3020, a 175 and a 190XT Series III (til my brother bought the XT a couple years ago), and he just traded his F2 off for an R40 last year.
BTW he really liked that 7060 and it was a power shift model.
------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot
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Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2019 at 6:58pm
I always have liked the looks of them , as I was a kid when they came out they were huge monsters ! Always liked the maroon color , but do remember being at an auction and a couple fellas joking that Allis must have ran out of paint to leave them primered,, as they didn't understand
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Posted By: jiminnd
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2019 at 2:11pm
After reading all these and responding, I got my 7030 in Jan of 74, it showed up at the dealer. He knew it was coming and when it got there I had 24 hours to make up my mind, tractors of all kinds were hard to come by at that time. He had others who wanted it too.
------------- 1945 C, 1949 WF and WD, 1981 185, 1982 8030, unknown D14(nonrunner)
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Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2019 at 3:50pm
I have seen where Harison Noble turned his 220 puller back to a farm tractor because of the shortage then,, Allis had a big investment on the 7000 series , as they put in a new computerized manufacturing assembly just for this , and future too,, I have an internal shop guide that details how they used the floor space from the now gone electrical business to acomadate more tractor production,, as they said - NO END IN SIGHT- ,, yeah that didn't turn out too good
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Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2019 at 6:10pm
I was just browsing T/H and they had 3 listed, 1 was a true open station, another was advertised as a 4 post "canopy". These machines were on the east coast states. Just how big of a tractor did Allis produce that were open stations ?
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Posted By: Leon B MO
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2019 at 6:49pm
I was born in 66, I remember as a kid 10 or 12 or so, our neighbor chopping silage with an open station 7030 and 3 row head Gehl. We chopped with a 200 bought brand new in 74 and 780 2 row, crawling along. We never owned a 70xx, went from the 200 to an 8050. I will say this, watching that 7030 roll through that corn field blowing black smoke is part of the reason that 30 years later, I had to buy a 70xx tractor. I enjoy chopping stalks with my 7020 pd or scraping dirt with my 7060 pd as much as I like to plant with the 8050 ps or field cultivate with the 8070. The 7030 and 50 were ahead of there times. My 2 cents. Leon B MO
------------- Uncle always said "Fill the back of the shovel and the front will take care of itself".
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Posted By: VAfarmboy
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2019 at 8:23pm
Lonn wrote:
It was hard to get a new tractor in 1974 and he bought that 7050 sight unseen and it had to be transferred from a dealer out of Iowa.
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It was hard to get any farm machinery new or used back in the mid 1970s. One day when I was about 4 years old so this would have been circa 1976 I was riding in the cab with dad cutting beans in his 1965 Oliver 525 that was so wore out it was basically scrap on wheels, and some guy in an IH Scout stopped on the road and came out in the field and offered to buy it on the spot. Said he needed a combine and couldn't find one anywhere. Dad told him it was not for sale. After Dad closed the cab door and the guy walked away he said: "Buddy if I didn't have 200 more acres of beans to cut this piece of junk would be on the way to your farm."
A year or so later the Chrysler engine in that Oliver got so worn out it didn't have enough compression to run so dad went to the AC dealer to buy a new F2. They didn't have any F2s and said they didn't know when they could get one but they had a slightly used Deere 4400 diesel that some guy had just traded so he brought it home. Dad advertised that old Oliver in the newspaper classifieds and said "will not run, needs overhaul" and the phone in our house was ringing off the hook with farmers wanting to buy that combine because you just couldn't find one anywhere back then.
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Posted By: matador
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2019 at 12:22am
The 7000s really were ahead of their time. Someone mentioned the styling of the hood above. That's not what stuck out to me. The fact that you could fuel them standing on the ground was such a good idea- I can't think of anyone else putting a fuel filler low like that until the 1980s.
The looks are kind of a "Love it or hate it" design, but simple things that make the machine work better will make me okay with almost any styling. I remember the first time I saw a 7000 series- that cab just looked hideous to me. But, over the years, it's grown on me. Who knows- we might have one in our yard in the not too distant future....
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Posted By: randy
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2019 at 7:53am
Oscar Mayer weiner wagon is what they called them here! At one time there were a lot of them around here.
------------- CA WD WD45 D17 D17 Diesel 7060 8050 8070
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Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2019 at 8:26am
matador wrote:
The 7000s really were ahead of their time. Someone mentioned the styling of the hood above. That's not what stuck out to me. The fact that you could fuel them standing on the ground was such a good idea- I can't think of anyone else putting a fuel filler low like that until the 1980s.
The looks are kind of a "Love it or hate it" design, but simple things that make the machine work better will make me okay with almost any styling. I remember the first time I saw a 7000 series- that cab just looked hideous to me. But, over the years, it's grown on me. Who knows- we might have one in our yard in the not too distant future.... |
The swing out battery tray was the thing of envy for the off color guys as well.
------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50
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Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2019 at 10:08am
I love the style of the hood, the grill, the forward rake of the grill. Rear end looks good. The cab looks like a box a kid would play with on Christmas morning to pretend he's in daddy's tractor! BUT, it is an impressively quiet box.
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Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2019 at 10:08am
Swing out battery tray is AWESOME!
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Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2019 at 5:57pm
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 7:09am
Four batteries were an option especially for northern areas. I don't remember if it's my 7050 or my brother's 7030 but one only has only one swing out battery tray. I use just two batteries anyhow and today's batteries, I'm guessing, are so much better that I don't think I would ever need four. I haven't needed more than two batteries since I've owned the tractor anyway.
------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 7:35am
Back in that time, even D-21's, 210's and 220's had the four battery option, as the batteries were only about 500 CCA's each. By the time the 8000 series came along, batteries had gotten up to nearly 1000 CCA's, so two batts were enough most of the time.
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Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 7:38am
I've got room for 4 batteries on my 7045. It had 4 in it when I bought it. Currently has 3 in it. If I recall correctly, the 4 were 550 cca, the 3 are each 800? So with these 3, I actually have 200 more cca than before. Made up all new cables, spins over nicely. Takes a lot to move 426 cold cubes of beast!
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Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 7:46am
DrAllis wrote:
Back in that time, even D-21's, 210's and 220's had the four battery option, as the batteries were only about 500 CCA's each. By the time the 8000 series came along, batteries had gotten up to nearly 1000 CCA's, so two batts were enough most of the time. |
Just think, with 4 batteries, you'll always have one bad one somewhere lol!
------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Posted By: ryanschott
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 2:32pm
Hey guys with a few more years on earth then me. I was born in ‘80. My wd45 was bought new in yale at a dealership in the middle of town they maybe sold 10 tractors a year and where open in the early 70s would any of these little dealships like “ bobs garage “ have sold any of those big 7000s series tractors back then. That’s what I missed when I bought my new John Deere is I wanted to go to a little dealership and buy it like in the old days but around here there’s only a few mega john deer dealerships that bought up all the little ones.
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Posted By: jiminnd
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 6:16pm
I bought my 7030 from small dealer, on a good year sell maybe 3 or 4 tractors and one combine. He had one really good year at the end of 200 production, sold all he could get, some without cabs and even one without three point. Even at that I think he sold 6 or 7.
------------- 1945 C, 1949 WF and WD, 1981 185, 1982 8030, unknown D14(nonrunner)
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