Notre Dame......
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=160069
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Topic: Notre Dame......
Posted By: Scott B
Subject: Notre Dame......
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2019 at 7:49pm
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Sad day in Paris. If you never had s chance to see Notre Dame, you missed an increbile piece of architecture. Be interesting to watch how quickly they’ll rebuild (our lifetime?”) And back to it’s grandeur..... ------------- D17 Series 1 Allis B- 1939 Allis B- 1945 |
Replies:
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2019 at 7:54pm
| Very sad indeed. I hope they can salvage some original structure and decor and that they rebuild to as near original as possible. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2019 at 8:13pm
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Yes, it's a shame but was bound to happen. I've never understood why structures like that get to 'bypass' firecodes meanwhile regular places have to have sprinkers,fire alarm systems, etc. I've seen small businesses up here go broke trying to comply with local building codes. If you want to add a plug , you need permits, inspections and the ENTIRE building has to be updated to meet current codes. AT least ND has the entire RC community to chip in. At least NO one got hurt ! Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Brian S(NY)
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2019 at 8:15pm
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Problem is... They were struggling to find the money to do the repairs thzat were in progress. ------------- God made man.Sam colt made man equal. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2019 at 8:17pm
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800 years old and took 200 years to build............. REBUILD ? That will be some project. Very SAD .. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2019 at 8:22pm
 ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 12:39am
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As far as I see it, it is done for. Their finances are really bad over there... and so much other stuff going on that it probably be faster to knock it to the ground and be done... unless the people pull together and bring faith back into the church that they can do it and get it done... but where are the old craftsman... now it will only be modern architect at work. jmo ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: HD6GTOM
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 12:48am
| Dad gum that's bad. 30 + years ago we took a trip to Montreal. One of the things be saw was their cathedral. They had just had a fire in it. Not nearly as bad as that. I think the guys said it would be 2 + years working on it. Ill bet the vatican will help these folks out. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 7:02am
| I too think it's done for. There is no money, no commitment for stuff like that anymore. It is sad, what a beautiful cathedral. |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 7:25am
| One billionaire already pledged 113 million towards a rebuild. |
Posted By: trace
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 7:59am
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just heard 400 mil pledged so far and just starting. they'll get er rebuilt. so sad. they did recover a lot of artifacts from inside.
------------- 1955 WD-45 WIDE FRONT W/ TRIP LOADER |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 9:21am
That’s my biggest concern. |
JC(WI) wrote:Posted By: trace
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 9:30am
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i am sure they will try to replicate original design and period craftsmanship. wouldn't be the same otherwise. ------------- 1955 WD-45 WIDE FRONT W/ TRIP LOADER |
Posted By: Gordy
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 9:36am
ALLAH EST GRAND’: Muslims laugh as blaze destroys Notre Dame cathedral during Holy WeekBy Kyle Olson, http://www.theamericanmirror.com/arabs-laugh-at-burning-notre-dame-cathedral/" rel="nofollow - The American Mirror, April 15, 2018: A whole lot of people with Arab [Muslim] names are finding the historic Notre Dame ablaze very funny. Twitter user Damien Rieu posted a video showing the amount of people responding to a video of the Paris church with a “laughing” face emoji. If France faces an Islamic future, a Russian author has already written about it. The novel is called "The Mosque of Notre Dame, 2048," Paris population is already 10% Muzzie and growing much faster than any other. Wonder if they had Muzzie workers doing the renovation. ------------- “If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough” |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 9:36am
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This time money will flow in from all over the world and will be hard for them to spend it all. I say a year to assess and shore up what is left and then 5 years from then it will be finished. Optimistic maybe but we will see. Hey, has anyone heard if Quasimodo is OK? ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: TramwayGuy
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 10:22am
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“A whole lot of people with Arab [Muslim] names are finding the historic Notre Dame ablaze very funny.” Are they the same ones who allegedly were dancing in the streets in New Jersey on 9/11? You know, the ones for which no evidence was ever found? |
Posted By: Scott B
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 10:49am
I agree. Money will (and already is) flow from donors world-wide. Getting the stone masons, the carpenters, sculptors, etc will be another story. Plus, I read some of the framing was made from old growth oak that was harvested 4-5oo years ago! May be a glimmer of hope in that there are craftsman throughout Europe that help maintain and restore these structures. There is really nothing like these buildings in the U.S. Incredible when you stand outside or inside and look. ------------- D17 Series 1 Allis B- 1939 Allis B- 1945 |
Posted By: Gordy
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 10:50am
A sampling of the Facebook users taking delight in the tragedy…see if you notice anything in common:
------------- “If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough” |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 1:27pm
| News has come out the lower areas of the building seem to have minimal damage, dropping embers and debris from the burning roof, fire department seems to have kept that to a minimum, Organ survived with minimal damage too. Mostly the Roof structure, building acted as a Hearth feeding air under the fire and feeding it fresh O2 where 850 years of drying out turned it to quick burning material. |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 1:48pm
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The oak used in it would be old growth 800 years ago, when it was built. I heard a construction expert in Europe say it would take a decade to rebuild but there are still a lot of skilled stone masons and other tradespeople in Europe who know how to build and repair buildings. I suspect steel will be used in the roof structure, certainly would have been used back in the 1100's if it was available. I saw it in 1970, a beautiful building, hope to at least see a picture of it rebuilt before I'm gone. ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 4:11pm
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depending on how it's reconstructed. if required to be 'as it was', you'll never find the wood anywhere in the world, period if to be built 'up to current bldg codes', super easy to use steel and LVLs, then clad in Oak veneer. be nice to install sprinklers too ! ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 5:51pm
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Confirmed: Notre Dame Fire Definitely Means Whatever You Want It To April 16th, 2019  https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A//babylonbee.com/news/confirmed-notre-dame-fire-means-whatever-you-want-it-to" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=Confirmed:%20Notre%20Dame%20Fire%20Definitely%20Means%20Whatever%20You%20Want%20It%20To&url=https%3A//babylonbee.com/news/confirmed-notre-dame-fire-means-whatever-you-want-it-to&via=TheBabylonBee" rel="nofollow - mailto:?subject=Check%20out%20this%20article%20on%20The%20Babylon%20Bee&body=I%20think%20you%20will%20like%20this%20article%20from%20The%20Babylon%20Bee:%20https%3A//babylonbee.com/news/confirmed-notre-dame-fire-means-whatever-you-want-it-to/" rel="nofollow - PARIS—A new report issued by an investigative team working on the Notre Dame Cathedral fire in Paris confirmed that the blazing inferno that consumed part of the historic building yesterday means whatever you want it to.
< width="300" height="250" border="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" ="0" ="0" allowtransparency="true" scrolling="no" allowfullscreen="true" id="aswift_1" name="aswift_1" style="-sizing: border-; left: 0px; : ; top: 0px; border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; width: 300px; height: 250px;"> In the midst of a flurry of online commentary on the disaster, the world waited with bated breath for the investigation to confirm their opinions, theories, and hot takes on the fire. Finally, the world was relieved to find that the fire is definitely symbolic of whatever each person wants it to be symbolic of. "If you think this is a symbolic judgment on the Catholic Church, sure, fine. That's what it means," one investigator said. "If you think it represents the downfall of Western Civilization in Europe, then OK. Yeah, you go with that." "You think this actually isn't bad because other bad stuff has happened that is worse? You think it's not OK for people to mourn the loss of the building? You want to use the fire to slam your political foes? Sure. Yup. You're correct." The report also indicated that it was either an accidental fire or definitely part of a coordinated attack by Muslims, cultists, Protestants, or aliens, whichever best confirms your preconceived ideas. Personally, I believe it is still too early to comment intelligently... ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: Lars(wi)
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 7:42pm
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I am sure donations will pour in from around the world, as long as it's feely given. I heard today that nut-job prime minister they have is promising it will be rebuilt, thats all fine and dandy, but why is gooberment official like him saying that? The Catholic Church is one of the most wealthy institutions the world has ever known. Surely they can pony up the funds to rebuild. ------------- I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science. |
Posted By: Scott B
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 9:35pm
13 million visitors per year is a whole bunch of euro for France and extends the need to rebuild beyond the catholic church ------------- D17 Series 1 Allis B- 1939 Allis B- 1945 |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 10:09pm
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Less than a day after a tragic fire destroyed much of Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris, donations have flooded in to fund the rebuilding of the iconic 850-year-old landmark — including nearly $700 million just from a handful of France’s richest citizens and corporations. http://money.com/money/4998873/francois-henri-pinault-net-worth-billionair-married-salma-hayek/" rel="nofollow - - richest man in Europe . Arnault’s current net worth is around $90 billion, which makes him the third richest person in the world, after only Amazon founder Jeff Bezos and Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates. The French cosmetics company L’Oreal and its http://money.com/money/4953599/worlds-richest-woman-bettencourt-alice-walton/" rel="nofollow - - donate 200 million euros for the Notre Dame restoration. Another major French corporation, the oil company Total, has committed to https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47943705" rel="nofollow - |
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 12:43am
| we too think it was aweful to watch that wonderful building burn. the old lady....oooops….I mean the loving wife and myself both thought....that if that building was here in the big city, they would have torn it down a long time ago for a parking lot, stating it was to old to use! it's their mentality! |
Posted By: ford8nwd
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 7:33am
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I hear they have an order in to Menards for some trusses and vinyl siding. |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 9:29am
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I don't believe the Catholic Church pays to build churches. It is the local parish that foots the bill. Thay will provide technical historical assistance but that is about it. ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 9:39am
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in that case the local parish can rebuild for free, considering the money they've saved by NOT paying property taxes ! At least up here churches do not pay property taxes on any 'church' land ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 10:18am
| there is already over 1 billion dollars in donations to help rebuild. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 11:04am
Right, beginning to wonder how much it will cost? I mean, I know it's quite a church, but seems a billion would build a LOT.
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Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 11:06am
What's your problem with that? I don't own anything as fancy as Notre Dame, yet if I stopped paying my property taxes, I would NOT have enough money to rebuild my house and farm, not by a long shot. Hard to save your way to prosperity.
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Posted By: TramwayGuy
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 12:36pm
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“Wahid Hadji Oubbad Jsk Yusuf Mohammedzai Hessam Massa Mohamed Hiadi Mohamed Bensalem Alaa Atfeh Raidh Khaled Ammar Sofiane Abdelhakim Noui Oua Mohamed Amin” Please provide a link to any one of these people and their comments. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 1:14pm
| Entire lattice roofing structure makes modern truss systems appear worthless. Was key in the design to place the weight out and down not side load to the buttresses. The amount of materials is daunting, the type of wood, the sizes of timber, what looked as match sticks was often 10" square to 18" square and upward of 40 feet full span one piece. Will take an army of Tradesmen in woodworking/master carpentry to rebuild that and years to do it proficiently where as noted the tough part will be securing the timbers. Will take wood carvers as long to duplicate the spire and ornamentation. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 2:12pm
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I read today where the called they attic and spire and roof structure area "The Forest" because each structural member was from a single tree. Amazing. Just very curious what the price tag would actually be. No matter how you slice it, a billion is a lot!
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Posted By: trace
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 2:37pm
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catholic church spends all their money settling lawsuits nowadays. ------------- 1955 WD-45 WIDE FRONT W/ TRIP LOADER |
Posted By: tadams(OH)
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 3:01pm
| They claim that there is no trees in France big enough to replace the main timbers so it will have to be imported |
Posted By: trace
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 3:33pm
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catholic church spends all their money settling lawsuits nowadays. ------------- 1955 WD-45 WIDE FRONT W/ TRIP LOADER |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 5:43pm
If I heard it right, the government of France actually owns the church. Also heard that they need like 3,000 trees, to do the job, likely they will come from the baltic area of Europe. ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 6:25pm
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Loyds of London says it will take over $6 BILLION to repair......... Some local "people" are estimating $2 BILLION............ Govt says it can be done in 5 years.... Contractors say probably double that EASY. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Lars(wi)
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 6:46pm
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church's here dont pay property taxes either, my point is, if the building is church owned, than it should not fall upon any taxpayers to fund the rebuilding. give as much as you want. ------------- I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 7:47pm
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I'm all for anyone donating but if the liberal SOB Trudeau decides to give MY tax money to the cause I'll be one really piZZED off person !! We've got Canadians dieing from bad water, I ain't got no doctor and have to pay to see.. I can't afford to have HIM give away any more of MY money.... Kinda hard to imagine 6 BILLION bucks for a 'roof' and pointy thing....then again repaired in 5 years ?? Heck it'll take that long to grease the palms of the 'achitects' to design something,let alone the bribes to city officials to look the other way. Hmm.. wonder if the 'yellow jackets ' will be there this weekend ?? I suppose if they 'restore' then no sprinkler systems will be mandated ?? cynical Canuck Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Ken(MI)
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 8:22pm
| Roman Catholic Church claims 1.2 billion members, so I'm thinking ten bucks each, and there is plenty left over, also thinking if I was a member my ten bucks would be on it's way. But on the other hand, after significant experience collection taking in church, there are a lot of church members who don't even support their own local congregation. |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2019 at 12:36am
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Glad to see money rolling in for the project, rest assured they will usa all they get one way or another. JBMiller, Was reading that the stone work might have to be taken down and put back up again because of heat and water saturation... mmm maybe before they start cutting the trees, they need to feed them fire retardant chemicals to get it in the wood. Had a wood pile given me that a fire department and sprayed retardent on, it sat for a couple years and that wood almost refused to burn after all that time and had to have some good wood to get that wood started. ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: chaskaduo
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2019 at 1:58am
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Fire Dept. spraying fire retardant on wood, isn't that anti job security? ------------- 1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp |
Posted By: Scott B
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2019 at 4:27pm
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The smoke damage and clean up alone, to the remaining structure, is going to be significant. That structure, and adjoining structures is huge. Hard to fathom without seeing it first hand. ------------- D17 Series 1 Allis B- 1939 Allis B- 1945 |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2019 at 5:25pm
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while they debate over the design( restore or NEW style spire) they better get a huge friggin tarp over it before too long ! Twiddle your thumbs and WINTER will be there. If that happens, all could be lost. Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2019 at 8:13pm
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Don't we have a bunch of those Sequoias or Red Woods out there in California that we can donate? They should do the trick. 😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳 ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: Scott B
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2019 at 11:26am
Well, France did give us the Statue of Liberty.......repay the favor? ------------- D17 Series 1 Allis B- 1939 Allis B- 1945 |
Posted By: chaskaduo
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2019 at 11:40am
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You'd have a bunch of tree huggers flipping out and probably threatening war if that were to happen. ------------- 1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2019 at 6:05pm
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OK, no french fry jokes, that would be inconsiderate... ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2019 at 7:10pm
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curley or "straight" ? ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2019 at 8:02pm
I think they need to clear cut a bunch of them big redwood trees to make room for about 12 million new residents. |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2019 at 3:20am
They have plenty of masons and brick layers that could be sent also..... ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2019 at 10:56am
The only people that can afford  to move here are the ones that are looking for free stuff. An they don't want out in the sticks. I am thinking I remember,
 if right Sequoias don't make good lumber. Very brittle , or something. But the Redwood's that some really good stuff, for somethings. It is not the strongest, but termites didn't use to eat it. But some are worrying the termites  are changing an will eat on it today. |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2019 at 1:16pm
Ray are you telling me they don’t have no redwoods in the sanctuary cities. |
Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2019 at 10:49pm
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Mostly the redwoods grow in the forest an just about all the sanctuary cities are in the city. An there have been some enterprising folks growing BIG BUCKS cash crop under the redwoods . But them folks was kinda clannish and did not want others just wondering around in there forest .But since the
rules are changing,probably just another over produced crop that ant worth growing soon. |
Posted By: chaskaduo
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2019 at 7:57am
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Then they will no doubt subsidize them operations. ------------- 1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp |