Brake on WD PTO shaft
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=159636
Printed Date: 25 Oct 2025 at 6:13pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Brake on WD PTO shaft
Posted By: savedallis1953
Subject: Brake on WD PTO shaft
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 6:21am
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I put a nice brush hog on my WD and the tractor handles like nothing but when I want to shift to any other gear, no way, so does anyone know a way of shifting this machine smoothly while the PTO is turning or is my "disc brake assembly on the PTO shaft" idea going to come to fruition? ------------- 1953 WD, 1953 WD, WD engine with WD-45 crankshaft. |
Replies:
Posted By: truckerfarmer
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 6:38am
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Use the hand clutch. The foot clutch is at the flywheel. It disengages everything. The hand clutch is between the transmission and the PTO/hydraulic pump. When you use the hand clutch the PTO will stay engaged but disengages power to the transmission. ------------- Looking at the past to see the future. '53 WD, '53 WD45, WD snap coupler field cultivator, #53 plow,'53 HD5B dozer Duct tape.... Can't fix stupidity. But will muffle the sound of it! |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 6:44am
| You need to put and over-running clutch on the bushog. This will let the mower freewheel when you push the clutch and not push the tractor. |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 6:44am
| Put a overrun clutch on PTO Or like truckerfarmer said, use hand clutch. MACK |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 7:53am
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truckerfarmer, thanks for your explanation. Hadn't occurred to me that the hand clutch worked that way. I continue to be amazed at and grateful for this forum. ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 8:16am
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The hand clutch runs in oil, which causes a lot of drag, there for when you shift you need to do it quickly, and it is very difficult to go from neutral into any gear. ------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 8:44am
After a little run time the oil don't drag much.Use my hand clutch always when Bush hogging with no issues |
Dusty MI wrote:Posted By: Brian G. NY
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 9:24am
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[/QUOTE] After a little run time the oil don't drag much.Use my hand clutch always when Bush hogging with no issues.[/QUOTE] ____________________________________________________________________ Discussions of shifting with the hand clutch come up here quite often. In my opinion, I don't believe it was A-C's intention to have operators shift their tractors with the hand clutch. There is no way I can shift my WD with the hand clutch even though it has lots of hours and there is no drag when it is warm. Now.....having said that, I can shift my D-17 with the hand clutch and I do it all the time when brush hogging. You do have to be quick, though! You really need the over running clutch....it's relatively inexpensive and will make your life easier. |
Posted By: AaronSEIA
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 2:38pm
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My dad has a WD and a WD45 that you can shift with the hand clutch warm, cold, whatever. My WD and D17 I don't think Flash Gordon could shift quick enough with the hand clutch. I firmly believe the hand clutch was meant to stop and restart a load in the same gear for the Roto Baler. If you can shift gears with one, it's an oddity and not the norm in my opinion. AaronSEIA
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Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 3:06pm
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I'm not very familiar with the WD/WD45 and others with the hand clutch. Why do you have to be fast when shifting, if using the hand clutch? I guess I'm thinking of this wrong, as to me "drag" would be a good thing, to help the gears all come to a stop before shifting? |
Posted By: ac fleet
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 3:28pm
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Mine won't shift either!---They are not really set up for that kind of use. Over running clutch on pto is the only way to go. Then shifting is no problem, as stated earlier. ---Don't know how the D series work. 190 needs the over running clutch, at least the ones my buddy has do. --- I tried one of my wd-45's once and after a couple tries I got smoke from around the transmission shifter, so never used the hand jobber since. ---Locked that sucker down on all my wd and wd-45's so nobody gets hurt trying to use them. ---- haven't had any problems since. tractors work great! ------------- http://machinebuildersnetwork.com/ |
Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 4:07pm
The drag is in the clutch, which cause the gears to turn when in neutral. Because of the drag, as soon as you hit neutral the gears start to turn, so if you shift fast the gears are less likely to be turning. ------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 4:20pm
| drain the 90 wt out of the hand clutch and replace with HYTrans oil. leave the 90wt in the transmition you can shirt gears with the hand clutch and never grind a gear. you will have to push the foot clutch in to shift from neutral to any gear. once it ina gear you release the hand clutch smoothly shift from whatever gear you in to the one you want. I do it all the time using the loader and the snow blower. you cant be moving when you do this so come to a complete stop. if you screw up push the clutch in raise the hyd lever itll stop the pto from running much quicker than letting it spin down and start over. |
Posted By: savedallis1953
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 5:33pm
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Overrun clutch, Brilliant, yes I forgot about the ol overrun clutch trick. Many thanks. Love this site. ------------- 1953 WD, 1953 WD, WD engine with WD-45 crankshaft. |
Posted By: savedallis1953
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 5:34pm
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All your replies are appreciated. Thank you. 👍 ------------- 1953 WD, 1953 WD, WD engine with WD-45 crankshaft. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 6:04pm
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Dave,the hand clutch,trans & rear end run in the same oil. My 45 and dad's WD have 80-90 and have always used hand clutch for shifting between gears after it's first put in any gear with foot clutch starting out. WD was new in 49 and that's been the method since day one. Yes you need to be stopped before shifting but once stopped you simply change gears and go. Lots of 2nd to reverse and back over the years.Loader on the WD and blade and bush hog on the 45. Have not been on one that was different. Maybe it only works in Illinois?
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Posted By: truckerfarmer
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 10:28pm
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Use the hand clutch on my 45 all the time with the bush hog. If you get smoke coming out of the shifter boot, you have something seriously wrong. Did you have enough fluid in there? It is a wet clutch. For those of you saying the hand clutch is not meant for shifting the transmission, think about that for a minute, a clutch is a clutch. Wet or dry they both do the same thing, disengage power! The hand clutch was Allis Chalmers answer to live power. Instead of a 2 stage clutch, they went with 2 single stage clutches. With the hand clutch being a wet clutch, it is ideal for the roto baler or combine because you can slip a wet clutch at full power without burning it up. You slip a dry clutch long enough you will burn it up in short order. If you have problems with the hand clutch, it may be in need of adjustment. On my WD and my WD45 I use the hand clutch all the time for shifting gears, especially the WD with the loader on for moving snow. If I had to use only the foot clutch for loader work, it would make moving snow a very tedious job. Also works great for shifting into road gear. Slap the hand clutch forward, push the throttle up about 1/2 way, slip the tranny into 4th gear, pull the hand clutch back, drop the throttle wide open and away I go. Maybe it's my years of slapping gears in a big rig without a clutch, but syncing engine speed to transmission speed makes shifting a whole lot easier than grinding gears. I'll get off my soapbox now. ------------- Looking at the past to see the future. '53 WD, '53 WD45, WD snap coupler field cultivator, #53 plow,'53 HD5B dozer Duct tape.... Can't fix stupidity. But will muffle the sound of it! |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 12:40am
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People might use the hand clutch for shifting but the fact remains that Allis Chalmers did not design the WD to be shifted using the hand clutch. A WD with good clutch discs and proper adjustment using a feeler gauge and proper shims will not shift easily using the hand clutch. Can you do it? Yes, I've done it but the WD/WD45 are not designed for it. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: savedallis1953
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 6:21am
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When I start my WD, usually first compression stroke, I have the hand clutch forward (disengaged), push in the foot clutch and put it in gear, release the foot clutch and there is some grab which lasts about a 1/4 of a second, barely pull back on the hand clutch and a pinky finger of pressure and grabs like it should. Then pull the HC all the way back, sweet. Just need the overrun clutch. PTO brake.....what was I thinkin? ------------- 1953 WD, 1953 WD, WD engine with WD-45 crankshaft. |
Posted By: ac fleet
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 10:13am
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The hand clutches are too grabby for any serious use, adjusted or not. ------------- http://machinebuildersnetwork.com/ |
Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 11:58am
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The reason that the hand clutch runs in oil is that they are made to be slipped, I don't remember having ours grab. ------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 12:49pm
| If it's grabbing, you have no lining left on the disc. |
Posted By: Brian G. NY
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 12:51pm
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The beauty of the hand clutch running in oil is its smoothness.......should not be grabbing or "jumpy"!
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Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 12:52pm
You must have a different clutch than any I've ran. I slipped mine running a brush hog and with the pull type corn picker a LOT. It always engaged quite smoothly if you feather it. I also used the hand clutch for shifting from F to R when pushing snow. Just don't let it in neutral for any time at all and my foot was always on the brake before it came out of gear. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: AaronSEIA
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 1:27pm
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I'm with Charlie. Never once on the 4 or 5 WD/WD45 I've been around have I thought the clutches were anything but smooth as silk. Now the tranny clutch on my boys C...that thing is grabby. AaronSEIA
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Posted By: savedallis1953
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 2:33pm
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Mine also, smooth, smooth. What a great machine. I am going to always run an overrun clutch whilst mowing so as to be able to shift effortlessly and without grinding. ------------- 1953 WD, 1953 WD, WD engine with WD-45 crankshaft. |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 4:14pm
| If the hand clutch is grabby you need to put oil in it. The hand clutch and transmition only share oil thru the bearing there is not a pass through between the two it's very possible for the clutch to be low enough to be running dry and have oil in the transmition. |
Posted By: truckerfarmer
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2019 at 11:00pm
From the operators manual.  ------------- Looking at the past to see the future. '53 WD, '53 WD45, WD snap coupler field cultivator, #53 plow,'53 HD5B dozer Duct tape.... Can't fix stupidity. But will muffle the sound of it! |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 6:36am
After I read above now I remember I replaced the plates on that particular tractor .......... overhauled the engine and painted it before I sold it, not making a dime on it.  So yes as stated above by someone else I believe your plates are worn out.------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 1:22pm
| should be able to slip that clutch all day if needed as smooth as silk |