Really baffled by carb issue please help
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Topic: Really baffled by carb issue please help
Posted By: 2011dandd
Subject: Really baffled by carb issue please help
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 12:08pm
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Hi again Sorry to post about my carb again but I really have come unstuck and wondering if anyone out there can shed any light please. Feel like a right idiot. Firstly My carb number is 212844 9706 I bought the correct carb rebuild kit from agricultural & industrial products which stated that it was right for the 9705 and 9706 model. Rebuild pack came with a fuel valve needle and spring, but on dismantling there was no fuel valve needle spring just a smooth fuel valve needle with no spring grove. The carb has been cleaned up and reassembled great but the new fuel valve needle and spring seem to stick out to much and don’t allow the float to sit perpendicular and well and there hardly seems like any movement at all. The new fuel valve seat is bigger than the old one so I can’t use the old fuel valve needle. Hope this makes sense. Please help. Thanks Dan |
Replies:
Posted By: Alvin M
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 12:20pm
| spring was added to make sure needle with rubber tip wont stick in seat |
Posted By: 2011dandd
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 3:05pm
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Oh I haven’t got a rubber seat I don’t know what on earth to do. How much up and down movement should there be of the float at the moment it’s about 2mm. This is turning into a nightmare |
Posted By: 2011dandd
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 3:13pm
| So I don’t need the spring? The float still doesn’t look like it’s sitting right |
Posted By: chaskaduo
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 3:46pm
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I'd contact the supplier, as I've gotten the wrong parts from suppliers before. There was a topic on here earlier about a coil for a tractor that in no way was for the tractors listed. It does not sound like it is the right part the way you describe it. ------------- 1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp |
Posted By: 2011dandd
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 4:23pm
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It basically seems to be slightly longer than the original which causes it to protrude from the valve needle seat more than it should which makes the float sit at an angle limiting its travel/movement. How can I upload photos to help with explaining the issue? |
Posted By: Alvin M
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 4:32pm
| go to mike's carburetor parts put in under search 212844 it will show the parts you should have |
Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 5:40pm
Simple enough to make it shorter.
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2011dandd wrote:Posted By: 2011dandd
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 2:54am
What do you think? Just file the head down a bit that the float rests on until it’s right? |
Posted By: Jim.ME
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 5:21am
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I see you say the needle seems to be out of the seat more than it should. Did the new seat thread in fully and seat tightly on it's gasket? I ask that as I have had a couple that the seats went in hard and did not screw in all the way until I worked on them for a while. That would have thrown the float level way off and might have leaked. Just a thought. The rubber tip would be on the needle, not the seat. |
Posted By: 2011dandd
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 5:41am
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I worked on getting the seat nice and tight for quite some time. I t got very tight and appears to be tight on the gasket. Maybe I’ll have a go at seeing if I can get another turn from it but I’m not sure I will. There is no rubber tip on the needle. |
Posted By: 2011dandd
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 5:42am
| In terms of the needls actual movement. Homuch travel does it need? Just enough to move of its seat and let fuel past? |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 6:28am
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The 9705, 9706, 9707, & 9707C Zeniths use all the same Carburetor rebuilding kits. Is it possible the kit was packaged with the wrong needle/seat assy? Possibly. But, in general, the Zeniths usually don't have much float movement to start off with. Mainly, as long as the pontoons sit relatively straight, you should be okay. Some kits come with a needle valve that has a Viton tip, some don't. Just depends on the mfr. of the kit. One thing you do not want to do is crank that seat in. They're only brass, and that seat should install with your fingers. If it doesn't, there's a bur in the theads of the Carb lid and you need to either run an 1/8" NTP tap in it, or run a bore brush in it to remove the bur. Its easy to strip the threads. Jim in ME made a good point about the seat bottoming out on the gasket, but as I said, the seat should install with your fingers till it seats. Another spot you want to make sure that's it's clean is the fuel inlet. Dirt, rust and debris get trapped in the threads and at the back of that passage way. Run a bore brush in that inlet and get it shiny clean in there. The debris in that passage way causes a lot of needle/seat issues. The Viton needles work good making a good seal when closed, but debris sticks like a magnet to the tips causing overfueling problems, high float levels etc. When I rebuild our customer's Carburetor's, there's a process I go through with every Carb to make sure they are spotless internally so they work and adjust correctly. Make sure the fuel tank and fuel delivery system is super clean also. Avoid rubber fuel lines when you can. Todays gasoline that is equipped with Ethanol plays havoc with rubber products. Tiny pieces of hose that loosens from the Ethanol head down and get caught in the needle valve. Not sure if you have Ethanol in the uk. HTH mailto:Steve@B&B" rel="nofollow - Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: Alvin M
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 6:38am
| if you don't have needle with rubber tip and spring you have the wrong one the seat is to thick at the top gets to close to float |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 6:45am
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what is the recommended height of the float in the carb.? That is an
important spec. maybe need to bend float arms? Better choice is to
find a correct length for needle and seat. ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: 2011dandd
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 10:38am
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Thanks everyone for the replies. I’m lost, I can’t find anything with a rubber tip. Everything I’ve found looks the same in all honesty. But the point of the seat top being to thick is definitely true. The seat top is a lot thicker than the old seat top. All a bit strange. Would of thought that would have been a very simple part to obtain and swap out. I think I will search more and try and find exactly what I need. Then take the installed one out and start the cleaning process again. So with that said. Where’s the best place to get the absolutely right seat and needle? |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 11:05am
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I didn't mention that we sell rebuilding kits for the Zeniths and Marvel Schebler Carbs if interested. Drop me an e-mail or give a call. mailto:Steve@B&B" rel="nofollow - Steve@B&B (973) 632-5596 bb-customcircuits.com ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: 2011dandd
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 5:02am
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As usual over thinking and not enough time to have a proper look. So found a spare half hour and had another look. I took out the seat and gave it a thread clean like it’s never had before, found lots of crap stuck to the bottom and up the side that the carb cleaner and brushes had not shifted. I guess this was stopping the seat screw up properly. Cleaned and cleaned and cleaned then went for it again and got the seat in another half turn at least I would say. It’s made all the difference and I’m happy the float is sitting right. Going to be going through all the timing once I have a spare day. Unless one of you nice gents from America fancy popping over to the UK to do it  Thanks for all your help. This bloody forum is great Cheers |
Posted By: TimCNY
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 7:03am
HEY! It's NOT "this bloody forum is great," it's "This forum is bloody great" - there's a difference!!! 
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Posted By: chaskaduo
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 9:44am
Got to ask, is Bob your uncle and how's the Governor? 
------------- 1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp |
Posted By: 2011dandd
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 1:13pm
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Yeah and Fanny’s me aunt. One of my other vehicles is an old London black cab. Marvellous bit of kit. I can highly recommend, really enjoy driving the Bin Lids around in that! Ha ha. Any particular settings as a starting point for refitting the carb? |
Posted By: chaskaduo
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 4:43pm
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Is that Fanny Hill or the other part? Last page of this manual. http://www.kd5byb.net/Wisconsin/Manuals/Zenith%2061%20and%20161%20Series%20Carbs%20Operation%20and%20Service.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.kd5byb.net/Wisconsin/Manuals/Zenith%2061%20and%20161%20Series%20Carbs%20Operation%20and%20Service.pdf This is from Dick L It does not matter the size or make of the updraft carburetor. The idle mixture screw adjusts the air for the slow idle circuit. It is to adjust the slow idle fuel mixture to cause the engine run smooth at your desired slow idle RPM's only. A starting point can be any place but I use one and a half to two turns. The desired RPM's are determined by the stop screw setting not the adjustment screw. HTH ------------- 1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp |