alternator or generator?
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15822
Printed Date: 04 Feb 2025 at 10:43pm
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Topic: alternator or generator?
Posted By: Fred
Subject: alternator or generator?
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2010 at 6:05pm
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yesterday we bought and took delivery of a 1952 B which the man we bought it from drove it 7 miles to our house. It runs good. Right now it is equipped with an alternator that isn't even electrically hooked up. It is a one wire GM alternator and it has a 12V battery. My question is to get the correct pulley and mount this alternator correctly or go to a 6Volt generator and a 6Volt battery. I have in inventory a 3 brush AC generator from my 1934 Chevrolet. Tractors are new to us, old cars are not. Opinions are very much appreciated. Thanks
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Replies:
Posted By: CJohnS MI
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2010 at 6:27pm
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Hah, let me answer a question with a question: There's a reason why you would consider that generator over the nice shiny alternator - why is that?(hint, there is no wrong answer, and your tractor should be what you want) |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2010 at 6:56pm
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Those 1 wire GM alternators I'm told run the battery down if you don't use the tractor often and require high engine speed to get them to start charging. Unless you need more current than a generator can provide, I vote for switching back to a generator. I have a CA and Oliver 60 that were originally 6V, but I converted to 12V but stayed with generators. The CA's generator came from a D17, the Oliver's came from a JD. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: wkpoor
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2010 at 7:13pm
| I'm with the Generator. With good wiring and correct battery cables there is nothing wrong with the original 6V system. PLus they look much better with the original equipment. |
Posted By: CJohnS MI
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2010 at 7:32pm
Thanks for saying it first - the alternator works - but the genny just looks like it belongs there. But hey, there are limitless options: 6v or 12v alternators, 6 or 12v generators, mechanical or solid state regulators... The 3-wire 63 amp GM/Delco 10si works very well. That said, if I were going to need the extra juice of an alternator - well the next one will be a Denso - 3 wire, 1/2 the size, round, charges at lower rpm, lasts forever, already in use on thousands of ag & industrial machines - and can be had new with a proper width pulley for around 80 bucks. |
wkpoor wrote:Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2010 at 7:37pm
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The question is are you restoring to drive in a parade where correct police might see, or are you wanting to use it with minimal maintenance? I have 2 AC's with alternators because I had everything on hand but the proper coil and I don't have to worry about charging or jumping a 6 volt battery when everything else I own is 12 volts. The original 6 volt will do the job if everything is kept up to snuff.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: wkpoor
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2010 at 9:23pm
| I kinda take some pride in being able to operate all my antiques on the original 6v gens except a Farmall H but I converted it to 12V gen so appearance is the same and mounting remained the same also. I only went to 12V cause it has 220lbs compression and the 6V kinda struggles at cranking no matter how big the cables are. |
Posted By: Max(ia)
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2010 at 9:30pm
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Brian's right on the one wire alternator. My 37 WC will run the battery down if it wasn't for the switch I have to cut the alternator off. I do have to rev the engine to get it to begin charging. |
Posted By: Burgie
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2010 at 4:49am
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Where do you get the Denso alternators and wiring diagrahams? ------------- "Burgie" |
Posted By: Gary in Texas
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2010 at 5:09am
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I am with Burgie.
Where can I get the Denso with the correct pully, for that price? I am putting 12 volt system on thw 48 WC, and will be needing an alternator.
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Posted By: CJohnS MI
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2010 at 6:31am
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This place has them: http://dnlauto.com/proddetail.asp?prod=12188N&cat=15 - http://dnlauto.com/proddetail.asp?prod=12188N&cat=15 |
Posted By: CJohnS MI
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2010 at 6:41am
Here's a pic o one: |
Posted By: Jim-Ohio
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2010 at 6:44am
| Can you give a model # or part # for that Denso alternator? |
Posted By: CJohnS MI
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2010 at 6:51am
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The street rod shops sell them like crazy, they get upwards of 200 bucks for them. You can get them with dual groove pulleys, different offsets on flange and adjusting ears. Mitsubishi also makes one, but it doesn't have nearly the reputation for durability that the Denso has. The Denso actually has the regulator and diodes mounted externally, so if you do blow them out, its only a couple of Phillips screws to remove. The first one I did was many years ago - we had a 1989 Geo with a Denso that we scrapped out. Needed an alternator, the Denso was there on the shelf - so pulled the flat grooved pulley & machined a single groove to fit. THAT one was 40 amps, they have models twice that output now. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2010 at 7:03am
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Max, I don't know what alternator you have, but if your battery goes dead from sitting around you have a problem with your wiring or you have a bad battery. Alternators won't drain a battery, they charge it.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: CJohnS MI
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2010 at 7:28am
Here's what the Geo, Toyota and many others have on the back for wiring plug: BAT - the heavy charging wire and it is separate from the plug IG - goes to the switched 12v on the Ignition switch S - "Sense" measures the output - can be put right on the BAT lug L - Indicator lamp "IG" and "S" correspond to the same terminals on the GM/Delco 3-wire. Using the "L" terminal is your choice - not required for proper use. Then there is the two wire backs  A little simpler: IG - goes to the switched 12v on the Ignition switch L - Indicator lamp On these units, the "Sense" wiring is internal - much like the single-wire GM/Delco. I know for a fact that the auto parts stores carry replacement pigtails harnesses for the 3-lug style - spade connectors work, but the plugs make for a sealed, corrosion resistant hook-up. The big deal on the link I provided in the first post is that one has the wider, "B" pulley, and is an "off-the-shelf" item already being used on ag & industrial equipment - means you can pick it up anywhere. The big deal on that GEO one I first used - it turns out those 40 amp units start charging at less than 1000 alternator rpm - so 400 or so crankshaft rpm (depending on pulley sizes of course). Oh, and did I mention that they are SMALL?!!! JUST MAKE SURE THE UNIT YOU GET HAS THE INTERNAL REGULATOR |
Posted By: Fred
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2010 at 7:38am
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Thanks for all the good information. We are not trying to make a perfect restoration mainly need a tractor to move our camper around the yard as space is real tight where we put it. The tractor's electrical system you might say there is nothing there. Lights are missing, the wiring is in sad shape. Sometimes that makes the choice more difficuilt because you could go in many directions. There is a gentleman that makes 6V alternators for a Model A Ford we see him at the Hershey Pa. Car Show and Flea Mkt. I bought one for my 34 Chevy and was able to give me a negative ground. He makes the proper pulley. I don't have to rev my engine up high for this one to kick in but oops I do rev it up when I first fire it up.
I noticed that the headlight switch from the tractor is exact same one used my 34 Chevy.
I agree with the appearance of using a generator over an alternator but even if you are going down a parade a lot of the people looking wouldn't know the difference. You could drive the tractor backwards and they would think that's the way it's suppose to go!
I'm sure I will have some serious questions along the way so thanks for all the good comments. I like everything to work as it should.
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Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2010 at 8:57am
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If a 10si has bad diodes it will drain a battery, seems they leak juce back and discharge battery. They will charge but when setting for while you will find bat is low.
been there / done that. ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2010 at 10:20am
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An Alternator acts as a Dynamo when sitting and will absolutely drain a Battery. Doesn't matter if its a one wire or not. If you have it wired direct to the Battery, it will eventually knock the Battery down and drain it dead. This is the main reason why I designed my 12V conversion systems to where the Ignition switch controls all power. When the key is off, everything is off, and the Battery is severed from the system so no parasitic draws exsist. The Denso is a good unit. A little overkill for a Tractor, and not cheap, but a good reliable unit. When looking for a "pint size" Alternator, the "CS" series Delco's are much cheaper than the Denso, and just as reliable. If you're looking for a wiring system, 6V or 12V drop us a line. We offer numberous different systems that would work fine on board your Tractor. We also offer a 6V Alternator if interested. I don't advertise them much here mainly because if a person is moving to an Alternator to do the charging chores, a 12V unit is usually what they move the system over to. I build the 6V Alternators for special applications being I have the empty chassis' on the shelf... HTH
mailto:Steve@B&B - Steve@B&B
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