Cavitation issues in 180 diesel
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=157384
Printed Date: 30 Apr 2024 at 5:15pm
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Topic: Cavitation issues in 180 diesel
Posted By: 17 roadster
Subject: Cavitation issues in 180 diesel
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 7:58am
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Tore down my 180 diesel for overhaul. Engine block lower o ring webbing for sleeves is getting corroded. Sleeve O rings were not leaking before tear down. Looking for options to repair old block or looking for good used block. Local machine shop wants $250 a hole to sleeve (ouch). Anyone have a good block to sell? Saw where some guys are using jb weld and then sanding. If cavitation is wearing metal in block what does it do to jb.weld? Also read about using some belzona 1111 super metal repair on webbing area after sleeve has been installed. Tractor is going back to work on farm doing hay and fitting fields. Looking for advice Located in western Ny Thanks, john |
Replies:
Posted By: rw
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 8:12am
| we did the machine shop sleeve thing to ours in about 1988 - still holding fine. Chore and hay tractor and has been a good fix for those many years. Cannot remember the cost may have been 600 or 800 for the job. Just saying if the sleeves are done right it can be a good repair. |
Posted By: mruhlig77
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 8:23am
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In the old days...we would clean everything up, install sleeves and o-rings and pour aluminum paint in the bottom of the block deep enough to seal...then let it set up real good...Mark (remember, this advice cost you nothing.) |
Posted By: Alex09(WI)
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 8:32am
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Welcome to the forum! Whatever repair you decide on, after you get the tractor going again, keep an eye on the PH level of the antifreeze. When the PH gets too bad, it allows cavitation pitting to happen. Keep the antifreeze good, or change it every few years and you will have no cavitation problems. I do have an extra 180 block in the shed, but I haven't pulled the sleeves to know if the counterbores are good. ------------- www.awtractor.com A&W TRACTOR 920-598-1287 KEEPING ALLIS-CHALMERS IN THE FIELDS THROUGH THE 21ST CENTURY |
Posted By: 17 roadster
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 6:11pm
| Will look at counterbore real closely on Monday and look for a used block. Then its decision time. The aluminum paint sounds interestiing. Thanks to all for your suggestions and help, John |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 9:37pm
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The least expensive repair is to cut a 3rd oring grove in New sleeves. The JB weld thing does not work. The best is to sleeve the block. I have sleeved some blocks with good success, but is time consuming, which makes it expensive. MACK |
Posted By: 17 roadster
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2019 at 6:30am
| I mentioned the third groove idea to my machine shop guy and will look into that. I assume you would use 3 o rings. |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2019 at 7:21am
| I use two black and one red. MACK |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2019 at 7:22am
| You will still have an issue if the block looks like I think it does. The block is damaged at the top of the lower bore, right ?? How can you slide 2 or 3 Orings thru that rough area and not damage them?? Good quality high temp RTV smeared into the rough spots with your clean finger will make them smooth. No excess. No RTV where the Orings will finally rest. Let it cure and reassemble. Then, be sure to use the proper type HD diesel treated coolant and change it once in a while. |
Posted By: Hurst
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2019 at 7:40am
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I’ve got almost 2000 hours and 8 or 9 years on JB weld repaired counter bores. Mine were pitted but still in good enough shape the overall shape of the bore was still there. If you have large parts eaten up, I wouldn’t consider it as an option. If you clean the block up and use a hone and fine grit sand paper to smooth it until you can put the sleeve in without the o rings and spin it with your fist easily, I don’t see why you should have a problem. The JB weld is only giving a smooth sealing surface. If you don’t keep up with your coolant system it will happen again no matter what repair method you use. Hurst ------------- 1979 Allis Chalmers 7000 5800 Hours |
Posted By: 17 roadster
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2019 at 8:01am
| Will post some pictures of bore tomorrow after clean up. |
Posted By: allisrutledge
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2019 at 11:58am
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Loc title instant gasket, no substitute, it is an elastomeric rubber and is superior to silicone. Oil and antifreeze resistant. cost about 30.00 a can Put a light coat on the block after cleaning good and a light coat on the end of the sleeves and orings. Quickly install the sleeve and bolt down one at a time .let cure for 24 hrs. before installing the oil pan clean up any from the bottom side. This is providing you have at least 50% of your old surface left in the block , any less have it sleeved as in previous post. Or start over with another block. The third ring is good as well but I'd still use the loc tite. Just my opinion. Good luck ------------- Allis Chalmers still exist in my mind and barns |
Posted By: 17 roadster
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2019 at 5:23pm
| Thanks for the info. Shop was closed today due to illness. Hopefully back at it tomorrow |
Posted By: Clay
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 11:49am
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I have had much better luck using Belzona 1111 (Super Metal) than Devcon Titanium Putty or JB Weld. I have repaired many John Deere, Cat and other engines with the Belzona. My dad and I did our Allis 180 diesel a very long time ago with Belzona 1111. It is still functioning properly, for more than 20 years. Cravitation and electrolysis is caused by antifreeze additives gone bad. These additives wear out over time. This is why antifreeze needs to be periodically changed or supplemented.
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Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 4:11pm
| Belzona dealer told me they make "liner bore fixer" sold under Cat name. |
Posted By: 17 roadster
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 5:36pm
| Decided to rebuild this block. Thinking we may add third o ring and after installing sleeve and bolting down with a metal plate would Like to pour some epoxy around sleeves and let cure for a while. Would belzona be a good product for this? My machine shop guy has two other products he's experimenting with. I'll post names of products tomorrow. |
Posted By: allisrutledge
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 8:06pm
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If you keep good antifreeze in and ph checked there should be no need for any other sealer than the o rings ------------- Allis Chalmers still exist in my mind and barns |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 9:06pm
| The Belzona I worked with was 111 and was like body putty....not something you could pour. Don't know what else they have but google can help. |
Posted By: allisrutledge
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2019 at 9:25pm
I'm sorry I thought you were going to sleeve the block. ------------- Allis Chalmers still exist in my mind and barns |
allisrutledge wrote:Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 8:44am
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On ones I've been around, the area where the orings sit was in great shape, the lead in chamfer was where it was rough and pitted. Beings it was a puller engine we put together in a short time-frame, I soaped it up real good with dish soap, and some on the orings themselves. Carefully inserted the sleeves one at a time soaping right before insertion. They went in nice and smooth, rocking in a circular motion while pushing down, and I kept watching down there to make sure they didn't cut or roll. Went together just fine. The whole point of smoothing the area above is simply to install the sleeves, I've heard of epoxy, or even bondo being used. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: Mike Kroupa
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 9:24am
| I have experienced the same thing Ed. Just got done doing a 185 and the o-ring seating area of the block was good. I used a little JB too fill in the worst eroded areas, not much just enough to prevent cutting or rolling of the sleeve O-rings during installation. I've always used John Deere Sleeve Soap, just my preference. Mike |
Posted By: 17 roadster
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 11:12am
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I think we r going to 1) use jb weld or some other epoxy to smooth up holes. 2) push in new sleeves and bolt down 3) pour one of the following items around sleeve and let set up. Morosso or pioner or seal lock fluid weld. Leaning toward seallock fluidweld since the others are setting up awe fuel slow. Will try and post pictures of 2 worst holes |
Posted By: 17 roadster
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 4:35pm
  
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Posted By: 17 roadster
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 4:36pm
| That's the same picture 3 times I'll try the ther one now. I'm computer challenged. |
Posted By: 17 roadster
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 4:37pm
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Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 9:54pm
| In the top picture, at top, it has eroded under top oring. Best to put third oring while it is apart. MACK. |