What did AGCO do with New Idea
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=154804
Printed Date: 15 Nov 2024 at 7:03pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: What did AGCO do with New Idea
Posted By: EPALLIS
Subject: What did AGCO do with New Idea
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2018 at 9:30am
| I thought AGCO bought out New Idea awhile back. I checked out the AGCO site and no where do I see New Idea. Gone just like Allis. Does anyone know did they sell it to someone or like Allis did it just "disappear"? Thanks in advance. |
Replies:
Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2018 at 9:49am
| When agco purchased White - New Idea in 1993, they discontinued the Uni-Harvestor. In December of 1998, agco closed the doors on New Idea, discontinuing all of their products. |
Posted By: Daehler
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2018 at 12:19pm
|
AGCO took the disk mower line and kept it in production just rebranded it under AGCO, massey and challenger, just like they did with Hesston. Most Hesston products dont even say Hesston anymore, or says Hesston by Massey Ferguson which is a lie ------------- 8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more! "IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!" |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2018 at 12:34pm
| That Hesston by MF is so dumb,,, Hesston had its own greatness, then drag it down with Massey Ferguson name???? Makes no sence |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2018 at 12:48pm
| AGCO PARTS BOOKS still shows "New Idea" by itself for those who need repair parts. |
Posted By: clarkscreek
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2018 at 4:15pm
| I have to give agco credit for the parts support for the many line of older machines. However if it was me Massey would be tractors, hesston hay equipment, gleaner combines, white planters and tillage equipment, new idea spreaders and various farm lot equipment. I know I left out Allis but anything they would put together today would disappoint me anyway. |
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2018 at 8:21pm
| sooooooo….AGCO bought the new idea line from AVCO? |
Posted By: matador
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 7:26am
|
In 1984, New Idea went to White Farm Equipment (Not a part of AVCO), and was then sold to AGCO when White left the farm equipment market in 1993. AGCO announced they were closing the New Idea factory on December 8, 1999. You could still get New Idea branded stuff later on though (I remember we looked at a new manure spreader of theirs around 2005). Stuff like this: http://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/27017671/2008-new-idea-3726 " rel="nofollow - https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/27017671/2008-new-idea-3726 was still made, but I think it had a connection to another brand (Like "Hesston by Massey Ferguson") Side note: That whole "X by Massey Ferguson" is just stupid branding. If a brand cannot stand on it's own, just close it and call it a Massey Ferguson then. But, why the heck Hesston needed to be dropped is beyond me
|
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 8:39am
|
Massey Ferguson is the least popular anything in my area. You mention Massey Ferguson to someone and their face minces in disgust. Their couldn't be a more disrespected name in farm machinery as far as I'm concerned. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 10:29am
I dont think anyone in the US really likes messey and couldnt agree more. We have a Massey self propelled swather. wish it still said hesston, i hate looking at it but its an amazint machine. ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Lonn wrote:Posted By: cwhit
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 7:07pm
| I,ve watched those vids too. |
Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2018 at 10:20pm
|
Agco really wanted the Coldwater plant - however there was the issue of the EPA - the old plant was so bad it went into the govt superfund clean up. I heard one of the Agco founders talk about some real horror stories they found.. leaded paint etc...most of the stuff went to Hesston... as to the comments on MF... listen to me as you read this - Agco and what is left of the AC heritage - and I WAS an AC employee and have a ton of AC equipment and love the brand = owes its life to the Massey brand - Agco would not have survived if it were not for the MF brand acquisition. I was told this point blank by Jim Seaver and he knew the books best of any of the founders. Every time I have to have a 'captive' part for my Gleaners or AC's or NI mowers or other Agco purchases that saved them from chapter 7 , I have to thank the MF guys for being there to sell the AGCO to allow them to have the revenue to survive the tough times. MF may be the ugly mother in law in the family but if it were not for her you would not enjoy the pretty wife you enjoy daily...I could say more but I learned to the bitter taste of swallowing ones pride was a medicine for survival in a tough field of farm equipment. ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2018 at 11:37pm
|
I imagine you are right tbran, but that still doesn't explain the stupid decision of dropping the orange line in North America. I know of people around here that will drive 20 miles further to deal with the Challenger dealer rather then the MF. They just don't like the MF name on their machines. ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2018 at 5:07am
| Can understand most of your point about the MF brand, AGCO screwed up by just painting Same- Deutz tractors Or whatever they were, but gotta remember AGCO was working with no debt from the start, and buying companies aggressively,,,, hard to think of a chapter 7 in the company |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2018 at 5:35am
|
So I remember AGCO coming out saying they only want two colors. Massey Red and Challenger yellow. They drop orange then why is Fendt still here and Valtra and now Ideal? I don't care how you slice, I mean no disrespect to folks on the forum, but AGCO s%$# on orange owners and for a big lying reason. Two brands my butt. It's killing some of the dealers we have and we don't have many already. Just ask Lodermeiers or Marzolf how many new Massey tractors they sell. I have asked and it is almost none, even when corn was $8. Only Masseys they sell are the small utilities to townies that moved to the country. Massey will never sell in my area and most of the orange people, after being flogged once by Deutz and then again by AGCO have gone to Deere, Case or Versatile. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2018 at 6:06am
|
Kind of look at FIAT over on the side with part of the farm line of Ford, New Holland, as well as CASE/IH and Allis Construction line, Case Construction, as well as fingers in Chrysler Motors . Seems the Italian Giant has fingers into many things . ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2018 at 6:38am
|
And another thing......... people say we can thank Massey for saving AGCO. Where was Massey before AGCO bought them? Well Canada had to bail them out. And why did Massey sell out later? So who should thank who? Without the Allis Gleaner Company there would be no Massey Ferguson. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Daehler
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2018 at 10:13am
Lonn, I couldn't agree with you more. I have just finished a letter last week stating almost exactly what you said. After reading what tbran said, I can see MF could have been a lifeline, especially if you put in overseas sales. Though in the US, I must be blind because like most others just dont see it. I remember the Massey dealer in town shut down in 2005 when AGCO forced a consolation with another one. They sold a few tractors but not as many as I saw go through the one that sold AGCO's. It shouldnt that hard for AGCO to paint something a different color and badge it differently with some cosmetic changes. There cant be that much cost difference to do it, heck they paint Valtra what ever darn color a person wants. Piss poor US marketing in my book. ------------- 8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more! "IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!" |
Posted By: VAfarmboy
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2018 at 7:55pm
I am curious why Massey fell out of favor in the US? Back in the 1950s Massey Harris tractors were some of the best, and they pretty much owned the self propelled combine market.
|
Posted By: EPALLIS
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2018 at 10:10pm
| Wow. Hard to believe that New Idea is celebrating 20 years this year of being a "goner" under AGCO. Very unfortunate. Great discussion and many thanks to all the contributors for chiming in! |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2018 at 10:34pm
|
Anyone know the history of Perkins engines? I assumed they were a engine company in the UK that may have wanted to grow but couldn't swing financing and got bought out by MF, who was using thousands of engines per year. Massey got in trouble and sold the Perkins division to Cat or did some other company own it for a while. I'm thinking that if AGCO could have bought Perkins, things would have worked out different. And then there is the deal AGCO made with Cat for their ag division, who thought that would be a good idea, and was it? Lots of questions but no answers... ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: fourthgeneration
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2018 at 11:12pm
|
We bought a new Massey tractor this spring . I hate the Massey color scheme and it does feel like AGCO took a giant crap on AC fans. Everything AGCO aquired should have become AGCO. They have a brand party issue in my opinion. I may repaint is someday. When dad went to replace their David Brown in the early 70s who went to the local Massey dealer. There were 7 or 8 new Massey’s there with the rear ends out. That’s how he ended up at the Allis Chalmers dealer. |
Posted By: pirlbeck
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2018 at 6:34am
F. Perkins Ltd was purchased by its largest customer, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massey_Ferguson" rel="nofollow - Massey Ferguson , in 1959. Keeping its separate identity, the business continued under the name of Perkins Engines and in 1994 became a subsidiary of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LucasVarity" rel="nofollow - LucasVarity . A supplier to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caterpillar_Inc" rel="nofollow - Caterpillar Inc since the 1970s, Perkins was bought by Caterpillar in 1998 for US$1.325 billion, creating what they claimed was the world's largest diesel engine manufacturer. Perkins now has manufacturing facilities in the United Kingdom, United States, Brazil, China, India and a joint venture with Ishikawajima-Shibaura-Machinery company in Japan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perkins_Engines |
Posted By: gleaner1
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2018 at 7:59am
|
New Idea actually made it to roughly 2004. But it died in one of Agco's silent deaths like Glencoe, Black Machine, Tye, Agcostar. Etc. As for Massey saving Agco that's a bunch of BS. The only only thing Massey sold in the mid 90's was the odd axial(White) combine and a handful of swathers(PMI) they were virtually extinct up here in Canada. In 2001 when they merged White in with allis they should have dumped the red as well. They claimed at that time having marketing resources in three lines of tractors wasn't working. Well here we are many years later and they still have three brands of tractors and hardly any market share. ------------- ALLIS CHALMERS "The color is orange" |
Posted By: AC7060IL
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2018 at 2:26pm
|
I believe Tbran about MF saving AGCO during tough world economical times. And, I praise AGCO for continuing whatever parts are still available for my 40 year old gleaner, MF round baler, and 48 year old NI cutditioner. I was also glad to see AGCO purchase Precision Planting from Monsanto. If for no other reason than that JD didn't. |
Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2018 at 3:37pm
| Tbran would know what he's talking about, and I can see what he's saying, and I can even understand as to why they dumped the orange tractors, (What I didn't like was being lied to about it). My question is, then why has agco abandon MF? You can't buy a Massey FWD, they won't bring the Massey sprayer to North America, doesn't sound like Massey will get the new combine. You can go to the Massey dealer, and purchase a 36 row planter, but can not buy a tractor to pull it with, much less one that will stay ahead of it. |
Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2018 at 9:17pm
|
I did not say Massey saved Agco = I said Agco would not have survived if they had not been able to market , then BUY Massey. IF you buy a new combine you have to have so many acres to run thru it to make it pay for itself. Agco did not have enough sales to float the boat. In the early days of Agco the founders sweated out making some months checks good. It was that tight. What a progress AGCO finally made. AS to the prejudice to mf tractors - Yes they are painted red and say MF but they ain't Massey. Thanks to the Agco purchase of Fendt they are either Fendt painted red or GIMA units. So if you say you will never buy a Mf high hp tractor you are correct - THERE ARE NONE ; who in their right mind would bad mouth a Fendt tractor and their power train no matter what color it was. Anyway.. Did Agco make a mistake in dropping the Orange tractor - you bet - cost them big time . I can't say much now as the site is public - after a couple of retirements I think the rational will come out along with the story. ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |
Posted By: fourthgeneration
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2018 at 9:37pm
| My feeling is AGCO has a brand identity problem that is holding them back and it’s mostly their own doing. At least in the US. Not sure about the rest of the world. In England I saw New Holland’s and JCB in the areas I’ve been to. |
Posted By: PeteMN
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2018 at 11:01pm
| I was thinking about the question of who are they trying to sell their equipment to? Nobody around here, you'd have to drive an hour to get to any kind of Gleaner dealer let alone one that stocks a reasonable inventory of parts. I drove past almost a half dozen JD dealer locations to get a part for a Gleaner combine from a long time Gleaner dealer and it looks like they are phasing out of Gleaners and selling just NH tractors and NH combines. At the rate they are going I wonder how many of their dealers will be left in another 10 years. They might even get to mgmt's much hoped for "one dealer/state". |
Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2018 at 9:08pm
|
Agco's goals are not to put a chicken in every pot. The super series Gleaners are doing very well, even still gaining market share in small amounts. Dealers sign on the dotted line for combines. It takes a strong dealer to pop for half a mill just to stock a combine in hopes of selling it for a profit. That's also about $2000 / month interest... that has to be payed each month and added to the combine. Anyone here want to be a dealer and put a half dozen machines on the lot at current commodity prices? Can you say presell and wonder why so much incentives and emphasis are put here? The days of a dealer in every county are over; even if one had the money and credit needed to open a dealership in a new area with no machine population, this one would have to be an egotistical financial moron to do so. Full line dealerships are like big farmers who need 300 hp tractors - if you didn't inherit or marry into it chances are you ain't gonna be one. Although I also question a lot of exec decisions, Agco is not as stupid as is often stated. They have no idiotic ideas to put selling dealers out of business. In fact they invest millions in dealer assistance, training and incentives to help them grow. You wonder about the future? Agco does too - the median age of the American farmer is now 60 years of age. Who is going to be around to sell to in 10 years? The % of the population that can buy a new Combine or Tractor besides the wanna be toys, is about 1% of the N.American population. Write a marketing /advertisement plan for that!. The numbers are shrinking every year. Power is being consolidated in fewer and fewer farms.. Corporate farms - you bet - most of these are just family farms trying to secure a future - there are no outside corporations looking to 'farm' . It will not work financially because to make a profit farming there has to be some long hour low pay positions - just like most equipment dealers. ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |
Posted By: fourthgeneration
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2018 at 11:11pm
| AGCO may not want to put a chicken in every pot but if their actions tank the resale value of used equipement by screwing up brand loyalty.... Then they are hurting their long term viability. It’s bad enough that a guy that wants to buy a new 110 hp tractor is so unsure of what he is getting that he looks at other red tractors or even green. I have some loyalty at the dealer but I have two other brands in my area and one is very good and closer. |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2018 at 11:39pm
|
The last independent JD dealer in Colorado got bought out by a multi state corporation. I walked in and didn't recognize the place, nobody there that I knew , needed an o ring for an injector pump and they did have it but had to check on the computer to see if they had it, even though it was right there in the drawer. Most of the Case IH Ford dealers are gone, now there is one new one with lots of inventory south of Greeley, don't know how their parts department is. Seems like the only brand with growing dealerships is the other Orange brand, Kubota.
------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2018 at 6:38pm
| Just an opinion and observation, but, isn't the shop of a dealership the actual heartbeat of the whole thing? I realize selling new equipment now can be rough, but in the shop the clock keeps ticking and rates are by the hour, |
Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2018 at 8:13pm
|
The term is call 'absorption rate'. The overhead of the dealership should be paid by the profit from parts and service, good luck with that. It takes it hitting on all 8 to get the job done. IF the interest and paid inventory gets too high it becomes a super drag on any business. Farm implement dealerships are one of the most capital intensive businesses there is.. high dollar inventory per unit and slow turn vs say an AUTO dealership. ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |
Posted By: Ky.Allis
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2018 at 5:31pm
| I've worked at two dealerships in the past. NH-4yrs. and JD/Kubota-10 yrs. The one thing that stands out that will absolutely bankrupt a dealer is used inventory especially if it on a floorplan and your paying interest on it. The second thing that stands out is that the customer is usually lying as he describes his trade-in. It may not be this way everywhere but is sure is here in Kentucky. |