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Forum Name: Shops, Barns, Varmints, and Trucks
Forum Description: anything you want to talk about except politics
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=152643 Printed Date: 26 Nov 2024 at 9:27pm Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: GleanersPosted By: wfmurray
Subject: Gleaners
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2018 at 8:05am
Watching wheat harvest in Wash on heartland U S A ,Farmer standing in field with a shiney J D combine in background.Showed two machines cutting on hillsides and you could read Gleaner on the front.
Replies: Posted By: Unit3
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2018 at 3:34pm
Sounds good to me. I too, look for the Gleaner name in magazines and TV shows. They don't show it enough. Now AGCO shows off their latest, The Fendt IDEAL. Gleaner talked about be the lightest weight machine. Less field compacting, less HP to move through the field. I'm going to see just how many tons more the IDEAL weights.
Posted By: Kurt WI
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2018 at 4:53pm
That combine looks like a night mare! In a couple years that is when all the electronics starts going.
------------- WD D17D 170 190xt 190xtIII 200 7020
Posted By: Unit3
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2018 at 9:57am
AGCO Gleaner had the C62 to compete with the 9000 series Deere. Deere goes away form them to the STS. C62 is droppped. Gleaner had the A series and now that is gone. I have heard that the MF combine is going to be dropped.
I will say the IDEAL takes a nice picture. They look like a over grown Formula 1 race car. I hope it works out for them. But I think we will stick with the proven cross rotor that can only be found in the Gleaner combine.
It’s not often in the machinery industry that a company gets the
opportunity to develop a machine from a blank sheet – with practically
no constraints.
So often, new machines are evolutionary developments of, or
updates to, existing machines. In fact, it has been over 30 years since a
truly “new” combine has been developed, according to AGCO.
It says that it has just completed the biggest product
development project in its history; its new ‘IDEAL’ combine has now been
unveiled – ahead of a full public outing at this year’s https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/over-2900-exhibitors-expected-at-agritechnica-later-this-year/" rel="nofollow - Agritechnica show in November.
The IDEAL is the culmination of over five years
of development – at a total cost rumoured to be in excess of €400
million. AGCO – the parent company of well-known brands such as Massey
Ferguson, Fendt, Valtra and Challenger – decided as part of its strategy
to become a “full line” manufacturer to design a combine that it claims
is “revolutionary”.
The very first step in the process, according to the company, was
to go out and listen to customers – chatting to them around the kitchen
table or up in the cab of their existing machines. After hearing about
their needs, and the problems they had encountered, this effectively
kicked off the first stage of the design project.
AGCO says that, among other things, customers demanded more
capacity, productivity and, in so far as would be practical, full
automation.
The first step was to build the combine from the inside out. This
meant that the heart of the combine – the threshing system – was
developed first in the lab. It was then grafted into three “mule” machines – combines that outwardly resembled existing, older models. This field-testing phase happened back in 2014.
The results were so impressive, claims AGCO, that – by this year –
22 pre-production units were out working around the world in some of
the most testing crops and conditions. This, says the company, is to
ensure that the machines can be marketed as “global” harvesters.
In total, the IDEAL – as it’s called – was subjected to over 250
different field tests and 195 laboratory trials during its development.
AGCO assuredly says that it “can not only talk the talk, but also walk
the walk”.
So what makes the IDEAL so revolutionary?
To start with, it is aimed at the “professional user”. Three model types are on offer – namely a 7, 8 and 9. These machine types can be further subdivided into three versions. These are: the standard or “flat land” combine; the PL (designed to work on slopes); and the T (tracked version).
Starting at the front, the IDEAL can be fitted with headers of up
to 12m (40ft) in width. A larger 50ft version is rumoured to be close
to production. Lifting such a large header is apparently no problem,
thanks to the IDEAL’s rated lift capacity of 6.5t – that’s the equivalent of a typical Irish tractor.
One of the main design goals was to keep the IDEAL as compact as
possible – for ease of use on narrow roads. The machine, excluding its
header of course, has a total transport width of just 3.3m (when fitted with 800mm tyres or 600mm tracks).
The track drive-system was specially developed in conjunction
with AGCO’s Jackson track facility; the triangular units incorporate
hydraulic suspension. They provide a generous, on-the-ground footprint
of up to 2.55m².
The IDEAL has a top road speed of 40kph; the hydrostatic transmission has two shift-on-the-go mechanical speed ranges.
Muscle is supplied by an AGCO Power (Sisu) 9.8L, 451hp engine in
the IDEAL 7. The bigger IDEAL 8 and 9 are fitted with MAN 12.4L (538hp)
and 15.7L (647hp) units respectively.
Now the clever bit – the processing unit. IDEAL combines are
fitted with a “unique” helix-inspired threshing and separating system.
According to AGCO, grain is separated “cleanly” without impacting unduly
on straw quality. This lofty assertion is backed up by the longest
rotor on the market today; it spans 4.84m and sports a diameter of 600mm.
In order to handle the crop as “carefully” as possible, and to ensure
a constant load on the rotor, the intake augers, threshing bars and
rotor fingers are arranged in a spiral pattern – a similar pattern to
DNA (AGCO’s words; not ours!).
This processing unit is said to require “much less power than
other systems”. Claimed power savings are in the 20-50% range; AGCO’s
approach is also said to boost output.
The IDEAL 8 and 9 are both fitted with ‘Dual Helix’ threshing
units which, as the name suggests, have two rotors. The smaller IDEAL 7
uses a ‘Single Helix’ threshing unit – with just one rotor. Both systems
can be reversed from inside the cab.
Threshed grain falls from the rotor onto the IDEAL’s next novel
feature. Two plastic, curved grain pans are fitted at the front of the
threshing unit; this means that the front end of the preparation floor
can be filled with crop.
The rear grain pan catches material from the separation area, and
distributes it in the rear area. The entire length of the preparation
floor, claims AGCO, is utilised fully. The crop is evenly distributed.
The curved profile of the grain pans also allows “optimal and consistent
output” – even on slopes. The company says that losses on gradients of
up to 15% are reduced, compared with “conventional” combines.
Clean grain is transferred up to the grain tank. AGCO says that it’s the largest on the market at 17,100L – apparently 18% more than its nearest competitor.
Even more impressive is the speed at which it can empty – 210L
per second through a 42cm unloading auger. This is claimed to be 32%
faster than its rivals.
‘Full’ automation
One of the biggest challenges, even for experienced combine
operators, is the need to constantly fine-tune the combine – to suit
ever-changing conditions.
To address this, the IDEAL monitors the capacity status of the threshing and cleaning systems, in ‘real time’, using 52 acoustic mass sensors.
Using these sensors, in conjunction with a grain quality camera,
allows grain losses, the percentage of cracked grains and grain purity
to be displayed. The driver can glance at the iPad display, again in
‘real time’, to see whether material is showing up at the front, left or
right of the processor.
The driver can also set the desired balance between output and
quality; the machine then adjusts itself on an ongoing basis – reacting
in ‘real time’ to changing harvest conditions.
It’s expected that the IDEAL will be sold in Europe under the Fendt and Massey Ferguson banners. In North America, it will be badged as a Challenger. In South America, it will be marketed as a Valtra machine.
AGCO plans to build 2,500 IDEALs in the first year – for sale all
over the world. How long before one makes its way to Irish shores? Only
time well tell.
Irish connection
As with novel developments around the globe, there us often an
Irish connection somewhere. The IDEAL is no different. Kildare man Barry O’Shea, who joined AGCO back in 2000 as a Fendt specialist in North America, headed up the entire IDEAL project from start to finish.
The programme director spoke to AgriLand about the
project, commenting: “This event is one of the key milestones for the
programme, but it is only the beginning of the journey for the IDEAL
combine harvester. I’m proud to be associated with such a ground-breaking machine.”
------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2018 at 10:32am
new business adventure for ya'll. build/design by-pass equipment to replace all the electronics on these newer combines, turn them back into real combines again! prolly make billions!
Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2018 at 1:08pm
JohnCO wrote:
Can you say New Holland Twin Rotor? Might make better straw but sure looks like lots of potential problems down the road.
From an Irish farm magazine;
https://www.agriland.ie/" rel="nofollow - Home » https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/category/machinery/" rel="nofollow - Machinery » Is AGCO’s latest creation the ‘Ideal’ combine harvester?
Is AGCO’s latest creation the ‘Ideal’ combine harvester?
It’s not often in the machinery industry that a company gets the
opportunity to develop a machine from a blank sheet – with practically
no constraints.
So often, new machines are evolutionary developments of, or
updates to, existing machines. In fact, it has been over 30 years since a
truly “new” combine has been developed, according to AGCO.
It says that it has just completed the biggest product
development project in its history; its new ‘IDEAL’ combine has now been
unveiled – ahead of a full public outing at this year’s https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/over-2900-exhibitors-expected-at-agritechnica-later-this-year/" rel="nofollow - Agritechnica show in November.
The IDEAL is the culmination of over five years
of development – at a total cost rumoured to be in excess of €400
million. AGCO – the parent company of well-known brands such as Massey
Ferguson, Fendt, Valtra and Challenger – decided as part of its strategy
to become a “full line” manufacturer to design a combine that it claims
is “revolutionary”.
The very first step in the process, according to the company, was
to go out and listen to customers – chatting to them around the kitchen
table or up in the cab of their existing machines. After hearing about
their needs, and the problems they had encountered, this effectively
kicked off the first stage of the design project.
AGCO says that, among other things, customers demanded more
capacity, productivity and, in so far as would be practical, full
automation.
The first step was to build the combine from the inside out. This
meant that the heart of the combine – the threshing system – was
developed first in the lab. It was then grafted into three “mule” machines – combines that outwardly resembled existing, older models. This field-testing phase happened back in 2014.
The results were so impressive, claims AGCO, that – by this year –
22 pre-production units were out working around the world in some of
the most testing crops and conditions. This, says the company, is to
ensure that the machines can be marketed as “global” harvesters.
In total, the IDEAL – as it’s called – was subjected to over 250
different field tests and 195 laboratory trials during its development.
AGCO assuredly says that it “can not only talk the talk, but also walk
the walk”.
So what makes the IDEAL so revolutionary?
To start with, it is aimed at the “professional user”. Three model types are on offer – namely a 7, 8 and 9. These machine types can be further subdivided into three versions. These are: the standard or “flat land” combine; the PL (designed to work on slopes); and the T (tracked version).
Starting at the front, the IDEAL can be fitted with headers of up
to 12m (40ft) in width. A larger 50ft version is rumoured to be close
to production. Lifting such a large header is apparently no problem,
thanks to the IDEAL’s rated lift capacity of 6.5t – that’s the equivalent of a typical Irish tractor.
One of the main design goals was to keep the IDEAL as compact as
possible – for ease of use on narrow roads. The machine, excluding its
header of course, has a total transport width of just 3.3m (when fitted with 800mm tyres or 600mm tracks).
The track drive-system was specially developed in conjunction
with AGCO’s Jackson track facility; the triangular units incorporate
hydraulic suspension. They provide a generous, on-the-ground footprint
of up to 2.55m².
The IDEAL has a top road speed of 40kph; the hydrostatic transmission has two shift-on-the-go mechanical speed ranges.
Muscle is supplied by an AGCO Power (Sisu) 9.8L, 451hp engine in
the IDEAL 7. The bigger IDEAL 8 and 9 are fitted with MAN 12.4L (538hp)
and 15.7L (647hp) units respectively.
Now the clever bit – the processing unit. IDEAL combines are
fitted with a “unique” helix-inspired threshing and separating system.
According to AGCO, grain is separated “cleanly” without impacting unduly
on straw quality. This lofty assertion is backed up by the longest
rotor on the market today; it spans 4.84m and sports a diameter of 600mm.
In order to handle the crop as “carefully” as possible, and to ensure
a constant load on the rotor, the intake augers, threshing bars and
rotor fingers are arranged in a spiral pattern – a similar pattern to
DNA (AGCO’s words; not ours!).
This processing unit is said to require “much less power than
other systems”. Claimed power savings are in the 20-50% range; AGCO’s
approach is also said to boost output.
The IDEAL 8 and 9 are both fitted with ‘Dual Helix’ threshing
units which, as the name suggests, have two rotors. The smaller IDEAL 7
uses a ‘Single Helix’ threshing unit – with just one rotor. Both systems
can be reversed from inside the cab.
Threshed grain falls from the rotor onto the IDEAL’s next novel
feature. Two plastic, curved grain pans are fitted at the front of the
threshing unit; this means that the front end of the preparation floor
can be filled with crop.
The rear grain pan catches material from the separation area, and
distributes it in the rear area. The entire length of the preparation
floor, claims AGCO, is utilised fully. The crop is evenly distributed.
The curved profile of the grain pans also allows “optimal and consistent
output” – even on slopes. The company says that losses on gradients of
up to 15% are reduced, compared with “conventional” combines.
Clean grain is transferred up to the grain tank. AGCO says that it’s the largest on the market at 17,100L – apparently 18% more than its nearest competitor.
Even more impressive is the speed at which it can empty – 210L
per second through a 42cm unloading auger. This is claimed to be 32%
faster than its rivals.
‘Full’ automation
One of the biggest challenges, even for experienced combine
operators, is the need to constantly fine-tune the combine – to suit
ever-changing conditions.
To address this, the IDEAL monitors the capacity status of the threshing and cleaning systems, in ‘real time’, using 52 acoustic mass sensors.
Using these sensors, in conjunction with a grain quality camera,
allows grain losses, the percentage of cracked grains and grain purity
to be displayed. The driver can glance at the iPad display, again in
‘real time’, to see whether material is showing up at the front, left or
right of the processor.
The driver can also set the desired balance between output and
quality; the machine then adjusts itself on an ongoing basis – reacting
in ‘real time’ to changing harvest conditions.
It’s expected that the IDEAL will be sold in Europe under the Fendt and Massey Ferguson banners. In North America, it will be badged as a Challenger. In South America, it will be marketed as a Valtra machine.
AGCO plans to build 2,500 IDEALs in the first year – for sale all
over the world. How long before one makes its way to Irish shores? Only
time well tell.
Irish connection
As with novel developments around the globe, there us often an
Irish connection somewhere. The IDEAL is no different. Kildare man Barry O’Shea, who joined AGCO back in 2000 as a Fendt specialist in North America, headed up the entire IDEAL project from start to finish.
The programme director spoke to AgriLand about the
project, commenting: “This event is one of the key milestones for the
programme, but it is only the beginning of the journey for the IDEAL
combine harvester. I’m proud to be associated with such a ground-breaking machine.”
Gleaner is dead my friends, and you read it right here. Even under their list of "Well known brands.." Gleaner is not mentioned.
I do find it comical, that they cannot even read specifications for their own bastard child combine, the Gleaner. Per this press release, "the processing unit is said to require much less power than other systems..." Oh really, that would be why the class 7 machine is equipped with an engine having MORE horsepower than the current Gleaner class 8 machine????? An S98 has a rated HP of 430hp, and a boost hp of 471, the smallest of the new "ideal" has 451 rated hp. the equivalent Class 8 machine has 538. Yup that is AGCO math and stupidity for you.
Cry now, or cry later, but the years of Gleaner technological firsts, and market leading advantages, are coming to a trash bin near you.
I seem to remember an Orange tractor brand meeting a similar demise????
------------- Still in use: HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
Posted By: Dale-OH
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2018 at 7:38am
This article is from IRELAND... Gleaner is not sold in Europe therefore no reason to mention it in an Article there
Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2018 at 8:29am
Dale-OH wrote:
This article is from IRELAND... Gleaner is not sold in Europe therefore no reason to mention it in an Article there
Dale you are absolutely correct.
Where was Massey the strongest, that changed the US market?
Everything AGCO does in Europe first happens here shortly after.
Anything new coming out from Gleaner, even rumored in the next couple years?
------------- Still in use: HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
Posted By: tadams(OH)
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2018 at 10:03am
That would have to be lease only, Who could afford it and imagine if a mouse or so other critter crewed into the wiring
Posted By: Dale-OH
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2018 at 10:25am
Agco has told us of some projects they are working on for Gleaner, nothing drastic but definite improvements but the Gleaner machine for its market does not need drastic ground up changes. The machine in this article was needed to compete with the class 9-10 machines on the market today, the Gleaner will never handle that much crop material because the rotor can not be made any longer.
Right now Gleaner is still the number 1 selling combine AGCO builds, maybe the Ideal will take that title if it truly sells worldwide. BUT the Gleaner is also the Highest Profit piece AGCO sells because the basic design has been paid for for years.
As for the strongest MF market it was always Everywhere else in the world and still is today. BUT long term AGCO did not loose any market share by dropping the AGCO Orange tractor the first year it was rough but customers have accepted it. WITH a few exceptions. Personally at our dealership when it was announced we had 2 customers say they would never own a MF tractor, 1 owns 3 now, the other bought a NEW DT200a in 2006 to farm 200 acres. I doubt he ever buys a MF just because he does not need a tractor. We can all let emotion play in to this and it was hard for my family to accept as well having been AC Dealers in the 50/60s and from 85 till present. BUT we accepted the change and our dealership has been extremely successful with the MF brand and we are selling the highest quality equipment we have seen in years.
Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2018 at 6:09pm
Dale, I hope you are right, I really do. I know you are closer to the situation than many, but we have been lied to before by AGCO, remember the Orange Tractor will "Never" be discontinued?
We all know Kevin fought hard to not only keep gleaner at the forefront, but some say to even keep it alive. Unfortunately, Kevin is no longer hear to protect Gleaner.
I want you to look at this picture from the AGCO main web page, and tell me what you see. What is Gleaner, it is an "other" brand. The article whether written for Ireland, or Iowa, wouldn't make one hill of beans worth of difference to AGCO marketing. The article talks about the "other combines" they make, but doesn't mention Gleaner, their #1 profitable combine, and one that currently outperforms Red and Green all together???
This is not emotional, I love Gleaner, but not near as much as I love Allis, this is just common sense based on current observations, and historical data.
I am happy that for your dealership the change has been a good one, I really am. I am not so resistant to change, as I am just calling the future what it is.....my guess Gleaner has five years left before it is nothing more than a legacy parts product.
------------- Still in use: HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
Posted By: TheGleaner
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2018 at 1:59am
Sorry of the long post, but this is a reoccurring thing across all forums it seems.
Might as well put what I have heard from people I know(some relatives, some good friends) that are in the mess of a company called agco(told me this after they got back from training on these):
Gleaner isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Too much money in parts, service, design, and branding. The ideal may or may not be a fendt, as then, technically, all agco dealers would the to become fendt dealers.it sounds as it will be a "slap whatever sticker you want" on it. They are planning to discontinue the Massey, and class/cat/whatever they are from the cat division(all axials) once the ideal catches on.
The reasoning behind the Gleaner is(aside from they have a bigger model coming sometime, according to people I know at Hesston) if they quit Gleaner they will loose all people who would have bought parts or new combiens from them. They won't go to ideal or agco, they'll go to a more stable IH or Deere, one that picks a brands to focus on and stays with it. People seem to forget tons and tons of Fs, Ms, Ls, Ks, etc were sold and farmers are still using them, more than you think, even some colleges(ndsu system has a few G and F running around). Parts may not be a big money maker, but it's a constant. Why no new models as much as everyone else(according to Hesston people) Gleaner is kinda on it's own, look at their advertising and roadshow videos, they reference Allis quite a bit and for quite a while they didn't even have the agco logo or copy right on alot of it, it didn't match the rest of agco's style either. Also they are trying really hard to prevent another N series messup, like the S series here, it began development around 06/07 and was released not too long ago(also why they took part of the Gleaner 60th video in their show case video at the unveiling:" it can take more than 10 years from idea conception to manufacturing, that's why we say Gleaner combines are Better by Design")
Also the N series was to be the death of Gleaner, deutz was, agco was, the Massey acquisition was, the end of the Independence plant was, etc.
In other related news, the regional versatile guy was in at the IH dealer trying to get them to pick up versatile and got to visiting and he says(also 2 years ago) that the higher ups in Winnipeg and Moscow(wherever rostelmosh is hq'ed) are still looking very hard at Gleaner, as: it's a brand alot know of and has a good reputation, unlike their Russian combine (no one really knew about it) so then they would have a bigger foot in the door, 2 good brands and (for the most part, proven) combines and if they did aquire Gleaner, they would have 2 different designs, so it could be a tick tock of releases (that and he said the accelerator rolls interested them, as you seem to get the cleanest grain due to them)
Just what I have heard.
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2018 at 3:14pm
Thanks for the update, TheGleaner.
------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant