ISO 12v starter for AC WD45
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=151958
Printed Date: 16 Nov 2024 at 3:00pm
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Topic: ISO 12v starter for AC WD45
Posted By: BrianJones
Subject: ISO 12v starter for AC WD45
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 9:23pm
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Hey all, My starter is going out on my 1957 AC WD45. It's been converted to a 12v system but I believe the starter may still be 6v. It's gone out recently and I have to knock it in order to start it. Any ideas where I can find a reasonable 12v start for this beast? Thanks. |
Replies:
Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 9:31pm
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Take it to a local auto electric shop. They can rebuild it and rewire it to run on 12 volts. I have done that with mine and they work great. ------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080 |
Posted By: Krazy Karl
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 9:35pm
| I see what your saying and wanting to convert it all too 12. But id take it to a reliable starter repair guy and see if they can convert or just rebuild the it to 6 volt and it should last |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 9:40pm
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will work on 12v just fine as a 6v starter. thousands out there working that way ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 9:56pm
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Brian, Welcome! And we need pictures !:) Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 2:24pm
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I can rebuild it to 12V if interested. Drop us a line, or give us a call... mailto:Steve@B&B" rel="nofollow - Steve@B&B bb-customcircuits.com ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: BrianJones
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 2:29pm
| I'll get pictures uploaded as soon as I can. The starter still works but I have to tap on it to get it to turn over. Could I just rebuild it as a 6v? Or is there a kit to make it a 12v? |
Posted By: Dipstick In
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 2:30pm
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I won't change 6 volts to 12,,,,,,,,,,,, they work fine that way, and besides that they spin a "leeetle" faster, which I like on a cold day! I took my first one to my electric rebuilder and he told me all about it............ It's been since 1992 that I have been doing this,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ------------- You don't really have to be smart if you know who is! |
Posted By: Alvin M
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 3:13pm
| I have used 6v starters when changing to 12v on all brands from 1967. turns better and starter lasts longer . I do that on all the puller engines i build wc wd wd45 . if you have old spring type drive change to closed type |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 9:05pm
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6 or 12, I'd rather get rid of the old slide switch mechanism and covert it to a stud/solenoid. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 9:23pm
| each to their own.my 45 has been on 12V since 1981.Pulled starter a few yrs ago figuring brushes would b cooked. ...nope |
Posted By: marion
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 4:57am
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please explain difference in drives, have several spring drives on bench broken where do you get the closed type drive. picture would be great if possible
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Posted By: Alvin M
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 7:05am
| any starter repair shop .has 10 tooth and a rubber drive at back of unit to replace the spring . I have used them for years |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 7:09am
Maybe you should take the switch off and file the contacts flat so they make good contact. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
BrianJones wrote:Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 9:28am
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My CA has been 12v for at least 20 years. It finally quit starting, but it wasn't a melted wire/armature/brush wear problem. Two of the springs that push the brush against the commutator broke. The brushes were worn so I got a brush/spring kit and decided to get 12v fields for it. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: Hubert (Ga)engine7
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 12:48pm
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Brian, if it needs a rebuild you might as well go to 12V, but a 6V will work just fine. Steve in NJ is tops for anything electrical for these old tractors as well as carburetors. BTW welcome to the Forum. What part of Georgia are you located? ------------- Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God. |
Posted By: john(MI)
Date Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 6:28pm
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My D14 starter used to grind almost every time I tried to start it when I went to 12v. I finally took it to a local shop here and he converted it to a 12v starter. Engages right every time and starts it right up in one or two turnovers every time unless I forget to turn on the gas!! ------------- D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446 |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 5:25am
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I'd say that servicing the bendix had more to do with fixing the grinding problem than converting the starter to 12 volts, John. |
Posted By: JoeO(CMO)
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 6:08am
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Sounds like it needs to be cleaned and new brushes installed. ------------- |
Posted By: john(MI)
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 6:28am
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If that be the case, it's odd that two did the exact same thing. The old starter and a new(rebuilt) one. ------------- D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446 |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 3:21pm
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When you apply 12V's through 6V field coils, it tends to make the Starter motor violent. This can lead to cracked nose cones, damaged ring gears or broken drives. Converting a 6V Starter to 12V's with a 12V Battery on board, makes the Starter last twice over, has a nice smooth engagement, and getting rid of the mechanical switch and moving to a Starter relay and key crank start Ignition switch brings that 40's Tractor into the 80's along with a loooong service life. Lottsa' pluses.... HTH Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: BrianJones
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2018 at 11:36am
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Thank you everyone for the information and advice. I think I'll just rebuild it. Steve, is there a 12 volt kit online anywhere? Also, I have pictures of it on my phone now. I'll try and get them uploaded. She's a beaut. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2018 at 9:30pm
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I don't offer a kit myself. I rebuild the whole unit including rewinding the Armature. Be careful of "kits" for Starters and Generators and such. In most cases, you don't get the correct parts! When you tear down a unit like I do, and go through top to bottom, there's no room for error. Take out old worn parts, and install top quality parts and mate all components and there is no problems and long service life. On 12V Starter conversions I loose the mechanical switch and install a HD relay. Install a nice HD key crank start ignition switch and its a done deal.... Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: BrianJones
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2018 at 8:51pm
| I'm trying to figure out how to upload images for you guys but it says the data file even for one photo is too large. |
Posted By: BrianJones
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2018 at 9:04pm
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Posted By: BrianJones
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2018 at 9:05pm
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Posted By: BrianJones
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2018 at 9:05pm
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Posted By: BrianJones
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2018 at 9:06pm
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Posted By: BrianJones
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2018 at 9:06pm
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Posted By: BrianJones
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2018 at 9:11pm
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Posted By: BrianJones
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2018 at 9:14pm
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Posted By: Hubert (Ga)engine7
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2018 at 7:09am
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That is a nice WD45! ------------- Just an old country boy saved by the grace of God. |
Posted By: BrianJones
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2018 at 9:28am
| Thank you sir! It's my first tractor. I've always liked older tractors much more than the newer ones. |
Posted By: BrianJones
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2018 at 9:17pm
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Do you have one of these starters for sale? Preferably rebuilt as a 12v? Delco Remy 1107951 3F24 |
Posted By: BrianJones
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2018 at 9:18pm
Do you have one of these in stock, for sale? |
Posted By: BillinAlberta
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 2:22pm
Mighty fine.  Power steering?Can't tell from the pic.
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Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 4:14pm
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One heck of a custom bucket on a very nice WD45! Good job! Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 4:15pm
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Sorry Brian. I'm not on here every day like I used to be. I don't have anything on the shelf for exchange. I usually just rebuild the customer's unit. With new field coils, rewound arm, all new internal parts and a new HD relay assy, a converted Starter like yours runs around $350.+ the shipping. Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: BrianJones
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 4:32pm
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It does have have power steering but it's still not the easiest with a load of dirt in the bucket Steve, what kind of turn around do you have if I expedite mine to you? I have the option of a new 6 volt for $250. I'm just curious as to how long that would last me. I only use this tractor for property maintenance on a wooded 8acre plot. |
Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2018 at 5:05pm
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Why not just CLEAN and put new brushes in? Take yours to a starter rebuild shop and have them do it if you don't think you can? They are pretty simple, brushes and new springs. Will last another 70 years. While you're in there, look through the mounting hole and look at the ring gear. Hope yours looks good. ------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2018 at 8:55am
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It usually takes about 2-2 1/2 weeks for me to turn one around. I have to send the armature out for rewinding, and that's what takes most of the time. Because of EPA laws here in Jersey, we can't do armatures anymore in state. Been like that for quite a few years. In the meantime I tank, glassbead and change over all the components in the chassis and when the arm comes back, I finish it up and run it on the 881 machine to make sure everything is working correctly and to my specs before I cut it loose. Ted makes it sound pretty easy, but 10 outta' 10 Starters or Generators that come in my shop have bad arms in them. That's the heart of the unit that produces the power and torque. Brushes, bushings, bearings & springs don't always put the unit in tip top shape... Sorry Ted, didn't mean to burst yer' bubble. LOL! mailto:Steve@B&B" rel="nofollow - Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2018 at 6:32am
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Not a problem Steve!! I was working on old cars and tractors when I was about 8 years old, so I see them as easy. I agree, the armature is usually the worst thing as the brushes holders fall apart and the commutator gets worn down. The stator usually isn't a problem, but I've seen em ground into because of the bushings being GONE completely, not just worn down. By all means Brian, if you're not sure enough of yourself, send it to Steve to get it all done up like new! He's the guru on here for doing these!! That is one GREAT looking WD45!! STRAIGHT tin ALL around (ecept for a crack at the top of the right fender, a good tool box and battery box. That bucket looks like it's NEW!! Been sitting in a barn and not being used all it's life??!! 1 - What's at the top of the left loader frame? Looks like a light? 2 - What's with the muffler? 3 - What's on the throttle and hydraulic levers? Looks like white something? You've got a gem there, for your first tractor!! BUT,,,,,it won't be your last ALLIS. It's a sickness and you'll soon have more! ------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
Posted By: BrianJones
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2018 at 7:54am
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1- temp gauge 2- That's how it was when I bought it. Previous owner tried to paint it. 3- rubber grips on the levers. |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 9:29pm
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Brian- another way to do it... is to find a functional starter off a donor tractor, and either send it to Steve, or swap it for yours, and send yours to steve, so your machine won't be down (for want of a starter) while the other is getting rehabilitated. For what it's worth... I'll second the note that the greatest issue with 12v conversion isn't the voltage upon electrics, but rather, the starter's rapid response to engagement... it can be hard on the mechanicals. I believe (Steve, correct me if I'm wrong) that these are SERIES wound starters. If that's the case, then as the starter's armature speed increases, the inductive reactance of the (commutated) armature naturally limits current flow through all the windings (and brushes), so it's not likely you'll ever 'burn out' the 6v windings on a 12v source... in order to do so, the engine cranking load would have to drag SO BAD... that there'd be something much worse to worry about. Now, as an example of the reverse, I have a Hercules JXLD 338ci inline six on my large generator... it was originally integrated into the generator control as a 24v system, which means the starting motor was intended for 24v. When I stripped it of it's (excess) control system, I also converted it to 12v starting. I pulled out the starter, and took it to my local rebuilding shop, where Bill looked up all the parts, and we found (as he told me we would) that the MOTOR windings for 12 and 24v operation are identical... the only difference is the starter solenoid winding... the 12v solenoid used larger wire, and fewer turns, for more pull-in force on the solenoid. My generator cranks just as fast on 12v, as it did on 24. My WD... and my WC, and my B... all have been running 12v battery on OEM starters with no problems, just sprightly starts in the coldest conditions. I suspect that one of these days I'll see a broken starter bendix spring, but I'll replace it when it does.  ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: BrianJones
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 9:34pm
| Y'all are definitely a wealth of knowledge on subjects that I know very little about. Thank you all for the information and advice. I did find a local repair shop and am currently getting a quote through them, they are just waiting to see if they can get the necessary parts. |