allis c electrical
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14963
Printed Date: 04 Feb 2025 at 1:48am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: allis c electrical
Posted By: ac crazy
Subject: allis c electrical
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2010 at 8:50pm
can you just switch battery from 6v to 12v with no other issues? or do you have to switch all other electrical components also?i had a guy say with a mag you can just switch battery and not have any problems. i have one with mag and one with distributer .... any advice?
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If i can't fix it i won't.
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Replies:
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2010 at 8:59pm
With the mag you can switch it out without doing anything but changing light bulbs. The generator may not charge it fully though. With the distributor you will need a ballast resistor or a different coil. I went to Farm and Fleet and bought one off the shelf for a car with a 12v system. The original coil will work for a short period of time till it gets too hot, maybe 5 minutes maybe 1/2 hour. When I changed the WD45 over I used an alternator off an old Chevy Blazer,new light bulbs and a new coil. She will now start at 0 degrees when I need (want) to push snow. Charlie
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http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Posted By: ac crazy
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2010 at 9:13pm
thanks for the info... my dist. model will need new coil and ballast resister the lights i will deal with later.... i know which alternator to get and how to wire it ..... my problem is it turns over so slow it heats up the battery cables hot, with the six volt battery. i had a friend who installed a 12 volt battery in his ih a with no issues but i was afraid of burning out distributer or the generator.
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If i can't fix it i won't.
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Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2010 at 9:17pm
You might want to check the battery cables before you switch. You need heavy cables - none of those 12v ones. And the ground point needs to be really shiny clean. Polish the ground for the starter motor, too. Your 6v system can work just fine, but it needs to be fully up to snuff.
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WC, CA, D14, WD45
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Posted By: ac crazy
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2010 at 9:30pm
on the 41 (mag style) the starter from the 44 (dist.model) works great but when i put it back on the 44 it drags and turns over slow... the compression is much higher on the 44 then the 41 though..... but my battery on both tractors died over winter so i am trying to figure out which way to go with new purchase. 12v or 6v i bought a 6v today from advance auto just because it was close but it would only start tractor once then just didn't have enough to get it...the 41 still needs new starter drive to complete it and also a battery.????????? what to do???
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If i can't fix it i won't.
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Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2010 at 7:09am
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ac crazy - there are many factors that could be causing the results you reported. We don't have enough info to diagnose the cause(s). There are numerous sources of trouble that could be affecting the 6v system in either or both of your tractors. 6v systems are more demanding in that they will work fine IF the parts thereof are in good shape where a 12v system may be more forgiving. You could help us help you by telling us a few things: 1. type and size (gauge) battery cables on each tractor 2. condition of grounding point, cable ends, battery terminals, ground for starter motors - all shiny/rust-free 3. condition of starter motor(s) - rebuilt or "as-is" 4. condition of starter motor switches - are you getting good contact, or is the copper "button" inside worn down or damaged? 5. status of the battery charge
One issue that is hard to deal with is the condition of the battery. Even a brand-new battery may have been sitting on the shelf for months. If so, it may have started to sulfate (or develop internal grounding between battery plates). This is more of an issue with 6v batteries than 12v as the demand for 6v is much lower and thus the 6v batteries tend to sit on the shelf for longer periods of time than 12v. Some on here have figured out how to read the code on a battery to determine when it was made - or you could ask at the parts store. And know that some batteries are NG when sold to you - it happens.
In any case, switching to the 12v system is a matter of choice. If you're able to maintain the components of your starting system, 6v will work fine. If you want to have it start after sitting for months and w/o maintenance, 6v won't work fine. I do two things that help with my 6v systems. First, I use a small charger that will maintain the batteries at peak charge ($25 at TSC). Second, I annually maintain the 6v systems to make sure that all connection points are clean, rust-free and tight. Makes a huge difference. HTH
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WC, CA, D14, WD45
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Posted By: pumpkin man
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2010 at 11:21am
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You have to rember some of this stuff is like me 60 to 70 yrs old the starters where forbuilt like tanks . My theory is tha $t 6 volt sys. wernt with adamm brand new thats why they put a crank on every tractor . besides the new 6 volt batt. is to tall for the batt. box. go to wall-mart buy a group 26-r 12 volt batt.for $ 50 & a $6 reistor from valu-bilt or NAPA. put a alt. if you want change the lite bulbs make it NEG. ground that tractor will start at 10 below or 90 above rain or shine.
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Posted By: BennyLumpkin
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2010 at 11:47am
Pumpkin Man....I think you're a bit off key....the crank starters were there so no matter what you could get one running....farm equip. didnt make money if it wouldnt start. 6v was the standard for ALOT of years and with some things still is....I had some problems with my 45 WC when I got it....I replaced cables, cleaned terminals, grounds, etc, took the switch of the side of the starter and cleaned both sides of the copper contacts because they were burnt, and kept messing with it....ended up my 1 year old battery that was in it when I bought it was bad....put a new 6v in and it fires up every time.....if you just take a bit of time to keep it up to snuff, 6v will never let you sit....its just not as forgiving as 12v....my WD has a GM one post on it and I hate it....Im gonna leave it 12v since it was converted and I had the starter built for 12v but put a 12v generator on it.......but its all in what you want I guess.
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Central PA Allis Express
1934 WC254
1945 WF
1945 WC135755
1951 WD68085
1953 WD45-150217
1957 WD45D-230744D
B110
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Posted By: pumpkin man
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2010 at 3:50pm
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Benny kind a hard to start one with a crank that a has dist. ign. and a dead battery 6 or 12 volt . thats my theory. you have yours . thats why they call it the U S A
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Posted By: ac crazy
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2010 at 9:29pm
ok folks here it is..... tonight i cleaned all connections possible...the bolt for starter, cleaned nose cone of starter all brass and copper connections to starter, inside and out. the cables are 3/4 " in diam. good ends on both ends..... i reinstalled 6v battery which is new from yesterday, whirled over for first time and battery drained down.... so i stuck charger on for 20 min. worked good for a few min again. either starter needs rebuilt? or 6v battery isn't enough...now that is said....the starter works fine on the 41. the 41 engine is very tired and worn (ie) knocks a bit... the 44 has high compression so i believe that i will be putting the 6v in the 41 and a 12 in the 44 for now..i am getting tired of having to work on it for two days to get it to run for 4 hours a week.... if you know what i mean? i do appreciate the advise. it has helped me to figure out what needs to be done further... thanks again to all.....
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If i can't fix it i won't.
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Posted By: GregLawlerMinn
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2010 at 7:19am
Can drive one crazy. Had a 6 volt with similar problems. Cleaned all the connections (including starter contacts), checked the Cutout for sticking, checked the points for grounding, verified right sized wire, and had starter and battery checked. Still did not want to turn over for long. Finally jumpered past the battery wires; and there it was....the cable from the batttery to starter had corrosion build up under the fitting that was not detectable. Replaced the cable and no more problems.
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What this country needs is more unemployed politicians-and lawyers.
Currently have: 1 D14 and a D15S2.
With new owners: 2Bs,9CAs,1WD,2 D12s,5D14s,3D15S2s, 2D17SIVs,D17D,1D19D;1 Unstyled WC
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Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2010 at 7:59am
As Greg says, these starter systems can be very frustrating. I know! But getting one to work sure brings a smile to your face. BTW, the higher compression on ac crazy's '44 C is probably NOT the source of the trouble. Yes, if everything else is the same, higher compression = slower starter rpm. My guess is that not everything else is the same, though. Often the problem isn't at all obvious. And I have to confess that, although I enjoy outsmarting the 6v systems, my D14 with which I plow snow was converted to 12v by a previous owner - and still remains so!
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WC, CA, D14, WD45
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Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2010 at 8:05am
The CA I have never would start with the starter from the day it was delivered. Dad said they did everything they could think of to fix it but couldn't get it to turn over good. When I was cleaning it up and fixing things on it so I could use it I decided to change it to 12v alternator. While fixing things I had the negative cable off the stater and pulled out of the tool box and found the cable had only half the wire connected to the battery clamp. It was a bad cable that couldn't be seen and was difficult to detect that caused the problem all along. If it would have been my tractor in 1951, I think I would have insisted on a fix or replacement, but Dad just parked it on a hill or cranked it for 40 years.
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http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2010 at 8:10am
That'd do it, Charlie!
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WC, CA, D14, WD45
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Posted By: ac crazy
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2010 at 11:09pm
just an update for ya... 12 volt is in it whirls it over fast.... works great. now my issue will be the dreaded carb issue ..... you know the rust in the tank filling up the jets and it only runs on full choke....ha ha... i have pulled this carb apart so much i could do it blind folded now.... any how i will post some pics when i get time, of the 44 c outfitted with sickle mower, its a tight fit with the 18.4 26's on it.... but it works.
thanks to all of ya for the in put.... once again thanks.
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If i can't fix it i won't.
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Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2010 at 8:35am
A C with 18.4-26's??? Could be a swamper!!
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http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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