New Shop
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Other Topics
Forum Name: Shops, Barns, Varmints, and Trucks
Forum Description: anything you want to talk about except politics
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=149297
Printed Date: 28 Sep 2024 at 5:49pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: New Shop
Posted By: ACinSC
Subject: New Shop
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2018 at 7:18pm
| Having a shop built . Don't have any 220 volt tools , but wonder if it might be a good idea to have one 220 outlet . May want a bigger air compressor or small welder down the road . Would a 30 amp outlet be big enough ? THANKS !! |
Replies:
Posted By: Bob D. (La)
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2018 at 7:22pm
|
Better make it 50 Amp. It's not easy to upsize, but can use larger amperage feed on smaller load. ------------- When you find yourself in a hole,PUT DOWN THE SHOVEL!!! |
Posted By: JoeM(GA)
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2018 at 7:29pm
|
+1 on a 50 amp ------------- Allis Express North Georgia 41 WC,48 UC Cane,7-G's, Ford 345C TLB |
Posted By: Dipstick In
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2018 at 7:38pm
|
Absolutely put in a 220 plug in, in fact it wouldn't hurt a bit to put one in in the back of the shop, and one near the large door............. The cost right now is pretty negligible versus the hassle of doing it later and having to open up the walls. When we closed in and insulated my 30X50' shed for a shop,,,,, we put electricity AND air fittings every eight feet and I never regretted it and was danged glad I had the foresight!!! ps. The air was only on one side,,,,, but there were a coupla times I wished it was both.
------------- You don't really have to be smart if you know who is! |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2018 at 8:41pm
| I don't have any 220 tools either but put a 50 amp 220 outlet between the large door and walkin door. The 50 amp 220 range plug is common to many items and RVs. I've used mine twice I bought a commercial griddle for the church and rebuilt it used it to try it out works good. Also borrowed the hot wash pressure washer from the farm cleaned the concrete before sealing it. I only have 60 amp service to my shed since its subbed off the barn. I'd have to dig in 200 feet if I wanted more service there. I did put in a 125 amp box and wired the circuits for 20 amps if I ever decide to change it. Once the wires are behind the steel it's hard to upgrade them. |
Posted By: HD6GTOM
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2018 at 8:50pm
| Do the 50 amp as stated. I put one in for the welder by the big roll up door on the west side of shed, one for the air compressor on the south end of the shop, and 1 by the sliding door on the north side. My welder is on wheels and I can use it on three sides of my shop. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 5:40am
| I installed two 50A circuits, one so I could add a 240V Air Compressor(glad as I did) and the other to multiple outlets I can move my welders around to rather than dragging a extension cord(expensive) to get enough reach. Cords add resistance, reduce efficiency and welding power. Have two dedicated outlets also 50A for lathe and mill. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 5:59am
|
Have to agree with everyone else, put TWO, 50A circuits in, Cost is cheap now, $$ later. I installed 'welder' receptacles and rewired the aircompressor to have same plug as welder. Makes it easy to use either unit at either end of the garage. I also wired up an 'extension' cable to test electric dryers in the garage.Kinda 'funny' how many times THAT has been used ! When you go to mount the recptacles onto the wall, use 2by8 'blocking' well screwed into the studs! You need strong and secure mounts for 220/50A boxes , as I found out.... ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: cabinhollow
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 7:14am
|
I put in a number of 60 amp breakers in my shop. Each one is just for one plug. In a couple of places I have then step them down to 30 amp. A 30 amp box with a 60 amp male plug wire to it, then a 30amp female plug wire into the box. Also on most of my 15-20 amp plugs are one to breaker. It first has a light switch, then the plug. To turn most of my equ on, you have to throw two switches. |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 7:33am
|
Personally I wouldn't spend a dime until I had enough scraped up to put at least a 100AMP 220 service in a shop building but I rekon it depends a whole lot on what you intend to do in it? If your mainly going to store stuff in it and do minor maintenance it doesnt take much power to run light bulbs, an electric drill and a vacuum cleaner. At the other end of the usage scale you can preform most any "normal"?? shop work with a 220V 100 amp service . I have two welders, 4 3 phase machine tools, (2 with 10HP motors), 2 5HP air compressors plus lights heat and A/C. I cant weld at 300 Amps and run the Lathe and Mill all at the same time but who cares? I only have 2 arms and 10 fingers, LOL. Be certain that you have your grounding set up right too! You do NOT tie the neutrals and grounds together at a sub panel like you do at the main!. |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 9:07am
| My electrician asked if I wanted a 20 or 30 amp outlet . He'll be back next week and I'll tell him I want a 50 amp . THANKS for all the advice |
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 10:06pm
| you'll need all them 50 amp plug ins for when we all come to visit! |
Posted By: ACinSC
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2018 at 8:59am
| VISIT ?!?? Sure , c'mon down . Bring some snow . |
Posted By: D17JIM2
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2018 at 10:14am
| 50 amp ! Put 2 in . One for welder and one for air compressor. I have a long heavy duty cord that will reach all over the shop or outside if i need to weld there. My shop is a small 24x30ft though . |
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2018 at 5:25pm
| Your entrance box should not be less than a 100A. Even more does not hurt a thing. I also use a small box to run my welder feed. Has two 60A fuses and it works OK. |
Posted By: johnkc
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2018 at 5:49pm
|
So how big this shop gonna be? are you gonna put floor heat in it? ------------- I support the development of hybrid automobiles and alternative fuels as I need DIESEL fuel for my ALLIS CHALMERS! |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2018 at 6:06pm
|
My electrician asked if I wanted a 20 or 30 amp outlet . He'll be back next week and I'll tell him I want a 50 amp . THANKS for all the advice I have a 50 amp welding plug up front and at the rear of the shed.. Both on the same breaker.. Can only use one at a time.... I have 3-4 different 30 amp plugs for the air compressor , wire feed welder, plasma, table saw, and lathe....... none of that takes over 30 amps. ....... and my MAIN is 100 amps... I only have TWO ARMS as Butch said. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2018 at 6:14pm
|
The nice thing about 30 amp plugs for the "smaller" 220 motors is that you can run 10 gauge wire which is a LOT CHEAPER than running #6 cable for the welder plugs. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Gary
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2018 at 7:07pm
|
Dakota A 50 amp RV Receptacle is NOT 220 volt. It is 2 individual 110 volt circuits with a common White neutral plus a ground wire. This gives 2 separate 50 amp circuits in the RV. Gary |
Posted By: cabinhollow
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2018 at 8:29pm
|
"and my MAIN is 100 amps... I only have TWO ARMS as Butch said." I have 2 - 200 amps mains (220 volts 1PH) At times I will have the bandsaw (20 amp), lathe (20 amp), plasma table (60 amp), air compressor (60 amp) and welder (60 amp) all going at the same time (with just two arms), plus all the lights and fans. Ex, This afternoon I was running the plasma cutter, bandsaw, doing cad design and dealing with customers. So for each clock hour, I was billing/getting paid for 2 hours of work. And if some of my part time employees are here, you can add another welder, powder coating oven, drill press, mill, etc. |
Posted By: Ken(MI)
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2018 at 10:11pm
| To my way of thinking, electrical service is like a pole barn, never big enough, go bigger than you think you will ever need, so that if an opportunity comes along to upgrade your equipment, power won't be the hold up, even 100 amps @ 220 volts doesn't go far if you start looking at serious welders or any other shop machine for that matter. I have a hobby shop now with a 200 amp service and a 25 hp phase converter and wished I'd gone bigger, but can't justify the expense of upgrading just for the sake of convenience and the real problem is I'm spoiled by what I can do at work. The shop where I make my living has a 1200 amp, 480 volt 3 phase service, and I remember thinking when we moved in there almost 30 years ago that there was no way that would ever be stretched, but with several machines with 50 hp spindle motors, a water jet with a 75 hp pump, a 100 hp grinder, plus everything else, it really adds up, throw in the summer with 4 rooftop AC units running, and the meter can really spin. Obviously, this isn't a situation you will encounter at home, but just pointing out how little power is really there on a 50 amp 220 single phase circuit. I don't own a single welder that draws less than 100 amps at 220 volts full load current, and if I have the capability, I want to be able to use it. Good luck with your project, I'm sure you will enjoy it once it's done. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2018 at 10:20pm
|
I don't own a single welder that draws less than 100 amps at 220 volts full load current Really ? I have a 250 amp DC Miller welder and I don't think I pulls but 40 amps on 220 v............ I normally don't have it set above 150 amps output. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 12:03am
| My 110 Lincoln mig welder works on 15 amp outlet. If I need more I have to turn the key on the Miller and start the engine. It wasn't cost effective for me to upgrade the service. I'd need to upgrade the main at the pole that feeds my house and barn and dig in another 200 feet of triplex if I was going to do that I probably should upgrade the feed to the barn but it only has 6 lights and 6 outlets with only a fridge plugged in. |
Posted By: Gary
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 5:51am
|
Ken (MI) Just curious what gauge wire and what is the distance to your welder plug that draws more than 100 amp ? I would guess that each individual wire would be larger than your thumb to carry 100 amp. ! Gary |
Posted By: Dave H
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 10:01am
|
AC If you got an experienced electrician, I would suggest discussing this matter in depth with him. i have a 220 mig and air compressor. i will be back from the barn later today to update but i don't think I have a 50 amp circuit breaker in the box period. Most got fixated on the 50A deal. That is a lot of juice. If you hook up something scrawney (say uses less than 30 amp) to 50 amp, I don't see the logic there. Like Butch, first thing I did was put in a 100amp service box and then run my needs accordingly. As stated, you are going to need some heavy wire to carry 50 amps. i get by well on #10 romex for the air compressor, mig plug, and the 30 amp 110 for the fifth wheel that is in storage there. Back from the barn. The air compressor is running on a 30 amp breaker, which is probably an overkill but I had the 30 laying around. The mig which says 170 on the side requires a 20 amp 220 source. The RV breaker is a 30 amp 110. i don't want to get in the ozone layer here but, drier, welder, and RV plugs are not one and the same. And it is my understanding that the 50A RV plug is 220 at the pedistal. However once it hits the service panel in the RV the legs are split into two 110's.  My two centavos, but it has got me down the road for 18 years now without popping a breaker. |
Posted By: Ken(MI)
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 11:29am
| 100 amp circuit uses #3 THHN wire in conduit, right to each welder, about 60 feet from the service panel. These are all TIG/stick machines with high frequency capabilities so continuous shielding of all conductors is very important to prevent radio interference. I do have a small 250 amp single phase MIG welder that draws less than 100 amps, and I think that is on a 60 amp circuit. The others are a Lincoln Square Wave 355, Miller 330 A/BP, and a Lincoln TIG 300/300. I know, I can only weld with one at a time, but the 300/300 is the first new TIG machine I bought, the Square Wave I thought I needed, and the Miller was one I specified for a senior class project back in the seventies, it bounced around the School District receiving little use until a couple years ago it surfaced at an auction for the closing of the Floral Design program my Wife was attending, none of the Florists there were interested in it (go figure) so my Wife bought it for me on the cheap (she's a fantastic woman I might add). As soon as I saw it, I knew it was the one I shopped for way back when and it welds and looks like new. |
Posted By: allis g
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 11:02pm
|
Put at least two in if you can. you don't want to have to unplug the compressor to run a welder. |