Breakout force 653 dozer
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=147431
Printed Date: 27 Sep 2024 at 6:28pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Breakout force 653 dozer
Posted By: DMiller
Subject: Breakout force 653 dozer
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 1:59pm
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Have a guy arguing apples and oranges on a need for his farm on another forum. He is limited on haul weight where he is looking for a 11000 or less pound machine, he found a 653 6 way angle dozer(Ask is $9000) and thinks he can build roads, root trees, push boulders where his 50hp tractor runs out of steam. What is the breakout force on a 653? And the base weight with a inside frame 6way blade. It does have a tail winch. |
Replies:
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 2:00pm
| And yes I already informed him was a dress out straighten up machine AFTER the big machines were done playing. |
Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 2:06pm
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I have a HD4, pretty much older version. It will do a whole lot. Can't move what a D5-6 Cat will at same time, but it earns its keep. Like you said it is a great finisher after a larger machine. We dug my pond with a D6 Cat and my HD4, worked very well. Mine does have the inside heavy 6 way blade. HTH Tracy ------------- No greater gift than healthy grandkids! |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 2:26pm
| This guy wants a machine can haul behind a pickup on a gooseneck but to push boulders, back fill a pond with road cut offal and to move larger trees out of a roadbed area. Only has weekends where has a 8000# mini excavator and 50hp tractor with loader that does not handle what he already is trying to do. A number of us on the other forum told him he is wishing for a bargain to do what a different machine will be needed to do. |
Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 2:40pm
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Dave: The 653 thread in HEF might accomplish some of what he has planned but not all. As has been mentioned before, the final drives can be the weak spot on the H3, HD4 and 650 if used beyond their design capacity. AC's small crawler line is limited to that of the estate owner and forest owners that know how to work the machine without tearing it apart. That said, either an excavator, (rental) or a larger Caterpillar dozer D-6 or larger would be in order for the work contemplated by the poster. Comparing a 653 to a Caterpillar D-6 is like comparing a fine boned race horse to that of a heavy draft horse! The AC 650 series is not in the same league as a Caterpillar D-6 or D-5. An AC HD 11 probably would fit the bill. HTH's ~ Orangeman |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 3:37pm
| Thanks and thanks for the spot reply there. He from what I was hearing is in need of a 955/933 HD6 or7 series loader not a dozer, pushing stock from a road cut with a dozer any distance is not good and time as well fuel consuming. He is on need of more options as to machine where he believes he can do it with a dozer on the cheap. I suspect he thought could do it with a 50hp farm tractor and 8000# mini too. Hung up on price and weight is not going to attain what he wants so I am backing away from further explanations. |
Posted By: dustydoo
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 5:16pm
| He may want to check into leasing a used machine . A neighbor got had a dozer for quite some time and I sure he had payments near reasonable ??? |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2018 at 10:31pm
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Seems like he could rent a used bigger machine for a couple thousand a month and get his work done. I think the AC could do the work but it would take quite a while and unless he is patient, probably would get broke pretty soon. ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2018 at 8:40am
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He could do the job with a 653 or in fact with a shovel and wheelbarrow It's not always the size of a machine but how its used and by who. I was digging a basement for house with my HD5 and owner borrowed a 955 from some friend of his and was doing other work on property . Complete disaster in his work and waste of time and effort . He tried to take out a silo foundation for about a hour - asked him if he wanted me to remove it - mentioned my little machine would do nothing - 20 minutes later I had it all in a pile 50 ft from where it had been Slow and steady and knowledge of how to run a machine and it's limits of makes a difference . Yes the finals are subject to failure on those small machines IF overloaded - broke couple axles on my HD4 and had to have both rear cases repaired as outboard bearing races failed also and case needed to be bored and incerts put in. HD5G will outpush and outwork a HD4 / 653 size machine - did a lot of road building . tree moving - land clearing , and basement excavation with my HD5G machine ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: Ariceman
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2018 at 4:43pm
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In my area, auctions are the go to point for one time use equipment... You buy a piece, do your job and sell it 6 months later at same auction house. sometime you make a little $$$ sometimes you break even.. |
Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2018 at 11:04pm
| coke is right. It depends on the knowledge and skill of the operator. Everyone who has ran a dozer and is very knowledgeable on how to maneuver the equipment can do a lot with a 653 or HD4 . |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2018 at 5:56am
| Newbie, new to him machines and strictly a weekend warrior by posts. Only track he has had is a 8000# mini exc. |
Posted By: JoeO(CMO)
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2018 at 6:43am
My operators manual for a 653 has 11,250 lbs. for the weight, doesn't mention ROPS being included, I assume it does. There is a breakout force on a 655 hi-lift of 10,900 and normal operating weight of 14,719
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DMiller wrote:Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2018 at 3:53pm
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Seems everyone who gets a track macchine figures they can move the world with it in one PUSH - don't work that way - and the time to learn is when no one is watching - as mistakes may get laughter . Had a guy say he had run track loader so he was going to show me how it was done with my HD5G - In sand he managed to get it hung up - HIGH CENTER on the belly pan within about 10 minutes or running, both tracks just spinning in the air - then said he was late to be somewhere and took off , letting me get it unstuck . Slow and steady - the corner of the blade - light cut - work a small cut off a pile and keep the RPM UP and the machine from bogging down . ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 16 Feb 2018 at 6:59am
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Good story Coke. I remember being 19 and working for construction company. Was backfilling an open cut trench with a JD 459 dozer. I was in the trench moving backfill from under a conveyor to the front of the cut to keep walls shored up. I learned that any hump you leave will have a teetotter effect when you back over it in reverse. About bounced me out of the seat in front of the entire crew. They all had a great laugh at the goofy kid playing Operator! I learned fast. |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 16 Feb 2018 at 3:02pm
MIs key. It was a JD 450B dozer. Sweet little machine as I remember. Also used a TD 15 on the job. |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 9:06am
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It IS important to know the machine, not only it's rated capacity, but also it's strengths and weaknesses... But most important to know thy task. If you're scraping off topsoil that's loose, and you've got good footing on a level surface, darned near ANY machine will do it... but when the material is variable, the blade load and tractive effort change substantially. Moreso, one must know thy opponent. A tree root has much more resistance than sandy loam. If you're trying to remove a tree that has a root structure that's shallow, cutting the roots on one side means you can push it over and get under it... but if you don't, you just beat up the machine. If it's a concrete foundation, the operator must have a clear idea of what the foundation's strong and weak points are... where the slabs, walls, and footings sit, and then start at the weak points, break it apart. with ANY machine, when you're talking about abilities under a challenging task, it's Divide and Conquer. Doesn't matter if it's a dozer, a backhoe, or a skid-steer. I've pulled out 60' tall trees by the roots with my unballasted B and a $50.00 electric chain saw, a spade, and 90' of rope... But the one thing about having substantially bigger machine... is if the operator doesn't know what he's doing, he'll typically get it stuck before breaking it.  ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: farmtoybuilder
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 3:23pm
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Our 50 hp fwa with loader and HD rear 7' box scraper will do more work than our HD3 and Bet it would do what a HD4 or 600's would do! We have an old HD5 with loader also, but afraid to use it much for heavier work! As we don't want to break it. :) These small dozers were good in their day for light work. But no way I would want to use one today on job site. We borrow neighbors Newer D5 or D7 Cat when we want to clear some bush and do heavier work. They make it so you never want to use old stuff again! :) ------------- 5 different TT-10's,5 TT-18's Terra Tigers,B-10,2 B-207's,B-110,2 B-112's,HB-112,B-210,B-212,HB212,2 Scamp's & Homilite T-10. Still hunting NICE HB-112 & anything Terra Tiger & Trailers for them. |