190XT intercooler?
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=146127
Printed Date: 04 Sep 2025 at 7:41pm
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Topic: 190XT intercooler?
Posted By: AC720Man
Subject: 190XT intercooler?
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 7:52pm
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Many of you know I own a 1968 190XT. My curiosity has me wondering if anyone has put a intercooler on a factory 190XT, not a puller? The 7020 had one, basically the same 301ci engine. It’s pretty tight in the filter compartment and not sure one would fit without some modification. What benefits can be realized besides obvious hp gains? Would it run cooler? Burn less fuel? Just asking, be interesting to hear responses. Thanks Robbie ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Replies:
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 7:53pm
 Forgot to load the picture ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 10:48pm
| it will add more load to the cooling system.if radiator is marginal,you will be overheating engine.more power than they already have ain't gonna do good things to the rearend. |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 5:27am
Must be Shooting for 200 HP! ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: grinder220
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 6:48am
 I put one on mine over a decade ago. Doesn't really effect the cooling temp by much.
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Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 6:52am
| It would run more efficiently and you could turn the pump down a tad and not have to worry about running too much HP. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 6:58am
| If it is plumbed properly (that is the key) for the coolant flow, it will run hot on a 90 degree day under full load. Running a corn dryer in 30 degree temps wouldn't be an issue. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 7:06am
| Hey Grinder220, do you still run that dryer or is this an old picture? What size is it? |
Posted By: grinder220
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 7:15am
| This is the first year for it on the dryer. Its plumbed just as it was on the 7020. Only work it does on a 90 degree day is hay work. Some spring tillage and planting is about all I use it for anymore . |
Posted By: grinder220
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 7:16am
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Tbone95 wrote:Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 8:11am
------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 8:36am
Yeah, I thought it looked fatter than mine. Mine is 350 Bu. I'm just glad I'm not the only one still using something like that, lol!
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Posted By: grinder220
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 12:24pm
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Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 5:43pm
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Thanks Grinder220 for the info. I was curious if this had been done. I am not sure I will try it, I was just curious if it helped fuel efficiency and what other advantages that you feel you gained? What type of intercooler did you use? The XT is easy on fuel in my opinion but always thinking of upgrades if they are effective and make a already great tractor even better. Charlie as my little brother, I may not have out pulled you this summer due to my rear tires, but power is something I have plenty of. I bet I can spank yours on a dyno! Lol. My pulling days are over, she proved her power this summer, farming is all she will do from now on. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 6:27pm
| AC720Man, I appreciate the picture of your 190, but my pet peeve is an oil filter that is BLASTED with PO#2. Sorry, just my opinion. The rest of machine looks AWESOME!! |
Posted By: grinder220
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 6:47pm
| More power yes,better fuel economy I can't say for sure. Its always been a very fuel efficient tractor and I've never really noticed any difference. It's off a 7020 and if you ever do put one on you'll want all the lines that the 7020 uses and the spacer for the oil fill. Also need to grind the front part of the cooler down slightly to clear the alternators hot wire. |
Posted By: grinder220
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 6:49pm
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Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 7:33pm
| Would you be willing to share where you got the seat? Dad retro-fitted a bobcat seat on the original frame somehow 12 years ago and it is starting to fail miserably, LOL!! |
Posted By: AllisFreak MN
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 7:43pm
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AC720man I don't have any advice for you on the intercooler, but damm that tractor is beautiful! ------------- '49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2 |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 5:42am
Rob you know you love rolling the coal at the track! ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 7:19am
The picture was taken as soon as I finished the tractor. Just couldn’t resist a quick picture in front of mom/dad’s barn while on a test run. All filters were replaced shortly after the return home. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 7:25am
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The seat frame is origional. 3 piece seat cushions came from Ricks AC tractor parts. He is a member on the forum. He sells top quality parts. These have the metal backing as opposed to plastic or wood of other company’s. Thanks everyone for the nice comments. I am pretty proud of her. He also sells the bushing kit for the frame. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 9:18am
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Charlie that black and white picture looks like it was taken in the 70’s....i like it. Nice touch with the vintage camera mode. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 9:26am
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XT's at just under 100 hp with stock turbo ran 12-14 psi intake pressure max - the 7020 with the smaller .58 A/R ratio exhaust housing on a TO4B80 and the extra fuel ran over 20 PSI. The difference in intake air temp was double or more ... you engineers can figure the exact # T= p/(r R) ha... at 10% over stock fuel setting, as stated, the cooling system was maxed out if the radiator was perfect - the addition of a 6 blade fan as was supplied by aftermarket add on AC systems will keep one at about the same temp... or it did on my XT on a dyno test at 100 hp... the down side is worn pulleys will result in short belt life as the extra hp required by the fan is an increased load on the belt. (note - the 7000 series had different # of blades on the fan for ROPS vs Cab w/ air - putting one of these on a 210 -220 with the double A fan belts results in same problem) Also keep in mind the intercooler was not designed to increase hp - it was to keep the engine life the same at a higher hp setting. The intercooler will only add hp IF there is more fuel being introduced into the combustion chamber that could be burnt w/o the intercooler.. adding an intercooler w/o adding the cooling needed to handle the intercooler will result in shorter engine life when the optimum coolant and oil temp is exceeded. It is the same for adding a turbo as to hp on natural aspirated diesel engines.
------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 4:28pm
| THAT OIL FILTER LOOKS AWESOME AGAINST THAT PO2 ENGINE!!! |
Posted By: AC7060IL
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 7:44am
TBran thanks for all your information. I've read how Turbo compressor can heat up intake air sometimes 4-5 times. I remember reading on here about how farmers in the southern USA would fabricate additional intercooler plumbing beyond it to aid cooling in higher temperature regions. Sounds like the 7020 could have benefitted from additional plumbing no matter where it was operating. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 8:55am
| As per the Service Manual on a 7060, the turbo can heat the air up to 350 to 400 degrees at 15 psi boost pressure. The intercooler core tries to bring that temp down by passing 180 degree coolant thru it. Tractor pullers use ice water and hope to bring air temps down to 40 degrees intake air at the intake valves. Imagine how hot that air would be when the boost is 100 psi. |
Posted By: AC7060IL
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 1:41pm
| DrAllis, yes that is so true. Ever mistakenly touch a shop air compressor's tank fill pipe that routes from it's piston cylinder(s) to it's air tank? When running, that pipe is seriously HOT. Makes me think that AC should have built the 7020 with an exhaust manifold pyrometer sensor mounted before turbo with it's temp gauge mounted into the operators cab dash. I have a pyrometer in my truck's cummins exhaust and try to keep it below 1200 degrees when trailering a heavy load. |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 3:29pm
Are the pulling guys running 100 psi ? |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 4:16pm
| I assume there is nothing "stock" as far as parts in the head/valve train in that type of application? |
Posted By: jiminnd
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 10:47am
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I put a pyrometer on my D 21 back when I got it and was just farming. On a hard pull it would get to 1100 to 1200 and we would shift down. Worked at a Ford tractor shop when 8000 were new, we put turbo's on them and a pyrometer, still had troubles with some as people just used all the power it had. ------------- 1945 C, 1949 WF and WD, 1981 185, 1982 8030, unknown D14(nonrunner) |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 12:11pm
| 100 psi intake boost (2 stacked turbos with 3 inch inlet) is possible on a completely stock cylinder head, with the exception of stronger valve springs to prevent valve float at 4500 RPM's. In the NTPA Heavy SSDiesel division with 3 and 4 turbos, they run between 250 and 300 psi intake boost. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 6:12pm
| WOW!!, Thanks for that info DOC. Remember, I have posted that I am NOT a gifted mechanic,just thought 100 PSI after turbo sounded rough on a head gasket,let alone the valve train. |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 9:23pm
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When I was thinking of this question originally, I was thinking of a intercooler like is on my Ram turbo diesel or my Talon turbo car. It looks like a radiator that goes in front of the main radiator. It cools the incoming air without the aid of lines routing thru the cooling system. I had never seen a 7020 intercooler in person until after I made the post. Maybe a tractor version of this is not possible due to fact that a tractor is at such a slow ground speed. This has been an interesting post. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: tornado8070
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 6:09am
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I’m going to share this for what it’s worth. Put a intercooler on my 8010. Dyno before beginning work. Run 111 hp. Installed intercooler put on dyno and she ran 95 hp. So I agree with tbran that if a intercooler is installed to see a hp increase you will need to increase fuel. ------------- 09’ DT205B, 08’ DT220A, 83' 8070 MFWD, 83’ 8070 85’ 8050 MFWD, 83' 8030, 82' 8010, 85’ 6080 MFWD, 84’ 6080, 79' 7020, 85' M3 RWD, 85' 920 diesel,AC C-50 forklift. |
Posted By: AC7060IL
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 2:40pm
The intercooler in front of a radiator is referred to as an air-to-air type. Older tractors usually had a small radiator coil inserted inside their air intake manifold. These are usually referred to as "aftercooler" in that the 180-190 degree radiator coolant circulates thru the aftercooler's small coil inside the intake. Under a load, a tractor's turbo can heat intake boost air from outside air temp (75 degrees) to 300-500 degrees. So the 190 degree coolant coil helps cool the turbos compressed air. Air-to-air intercooler can help even though tractor is not traveling fast down a freeway like a truck, if the tractor's engine fan speed is faster. But as mentioned earlier by TBran? DrAllis?, your tractor's fan belts & fan pulleys can wear out faster in this scenario. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 10:59pm
| much of the newer diesel equipment uses the air to air charge air coolers. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2018 at 6:24am
| I have not been around a 433 intercooled engine,ours is just a turbo,but how does that system work, air or water? |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2018 at 9:15pm
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Thanks for the great explanation AC7060IL. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: AC7060IL
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2018 at 1:52pm
The 433I (I for Intercooled) used in Gleaner F2-F3 have their "aftercooler" radiator coolant coil inserted into their intake manifold. Although I've never owned an AC6080 tractor or AC 880 cotton picker, I believe their 433I is setup the same way. If you research older diesels, the two terms "aftercooler" & "intercooler" seem to be used freely to describe cooling intake air after the turbo. In some older diesels, a turbo might compress incoming air initially, that heated compressed turbo air would then be followed by an intercooler ("inter" or in between) to cool the air, which may then run thru a supercharger(blower) before it reached an aftercooler ("after" series of compressions), then taken into engine cylinders. I believe some older WWII planes (P51, P38, Corsairs, etc) used a supercharger or turbo-supercharger combo to compress their engine's thinner high altitude air. Here's a weblink for a good long read about WWII warbird's super chargers & turbos. https://www.pacificaviationmuseum.org/pearl-harbor-blog/superchargers-and-turbochargers/" rel="nofollow - https://www.pacificaviationmuseum.org/pearl-harbor-blog/superchargers-and-turbochargers/ |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2018 at 1:59pm
| AC7060, Very cool read. funny to think that farmers were running 30 horse WC's, and there were 1600HP planes out there! Funny how log it took that technology to move into ag. |
Posted By: AC7060IL
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2018 at 2:18pm
You're very welcome. After discussing some of these decade diesel improvements (1960's Turbo additions, 1970's aftercooler additions, & 1990's air-to-air intercooler additions), it always makes me appreciate, even more, the older 1940-1950 non-turbo natural air diesel's lugging power designs. My Dad's 1952 Cat D4 dozer developed 48 hp (drawbar hp) from a 350cu in 4 cyl diesel. It's power had a pushing weigh of 10,000lbs, 100% of its weight. I think the older AC dozers performed equally well, too. |
Posted By: AC7060IL
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2018 at 2:29pm
Yes, but until the later 1960- early 1970s, there were numerous smaller farms using 10-12' tillage tools. The larger tillage equipment 15-20' widths were limited or custom built. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2018 at 10:31pm
| I've got a few things here to discuss: Mr. Tornado 8070... installing an intercooler (a 7020 intercooler?? or something else?) on your 8010 that had 111 HP should not have dropped the HP to 95. It should have remained the same OR slightly increased. You have an air leak or lack of fuel delivery or #1 fuel versus #2 fuel, or a different dyno on a different air temp day....something's different. A properly functioning coolant to intake air manifold (intercooler) will not cause a drop in HP. No way. With your stock 8010 producing 111 HP on a 90 degree day, the exhaust temp might have been 1250 degrees. (This is a guess, but just stay with me) . The addition of a properly functioning factory (7020) intercooler allows the injection pump delivery to be increased approximately 3 quarts per hr for 123 HP and the same 1250 degree exhaust temperature. Controlling the intake air temp keeps the exhaust temps in an acceptable range for a desired engine life. When fuel delivery is increased, turbo boost goes up creating more intake air heat. The exhaust temps will also rise accordingly, taking them to a level that is unacceptable for desired engine life. The intercooler brings down the intake and exhaust temps to a more reasonable figure. If you go to the Nebraska Test data, some interesting things can be found. A 1974 AC 7060 P.D. makes 161.51 HP and burns 10.179 GPH of fuel. A 1977 AC 7045 P.D. makes 146.18 HP and burns 10.133 GPH. What is the difference between these engines??? The factory coolant to intake air intercooler. This is a 15 HP difference !!!! Now, I should disclose that the 7060 would have had a slightly smaller transmission pump, so let's say there's only a 13 HP gain between the two engines. Need more proof?? The same two tractors now being tested at a reduced load. The 7060 @ 143 HP used 9.333 GPH. The 7045 @ 130 HP used 9.365 GPH !!!! This will give you something to think about. Modern day air-to-air after-coolers are more efficient due to the ambient temps are way less than 180 degree coolant temps. Higher boost numbers are the norm because of more efficient turbos and emissions specs have to be met. Tbran's reference to a cooling system being maxxed out was for the 190XT @100 HP and he had added a 6 blade fan (instead of 5 blades) to help out the cooling system performance. The negative to the extra fan blade is more belt power required to spin it, and this takes a bit more engine HP too. That's all I've got for now. |
Posted By: tornado8070
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2018 at 11:46am
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Dr Allis I find it funny how you feel the need to squash me. It’s no question to me think I’m a total idiot. And I’m fine with that. For your information there is boost guage installed permanently. No boost leak. Same dyno as I own it myself. Tractor was tested with thin 2 days in similar ambient temps. New exhaust manifold/turbo had been installed just prior to i inital test. ------------- 09’ DT205B, 08’ DT220A, 83' 8070 MFWD, 83’ 8070 85’ 8050 MFWD, 83' 8030, 82' 8010, 85’ 6080 MFWD, 84’ 6080, 79' 7020, 85' M3 RWD, 85' 920 diesel,AC C-50 forklift. |
Posted By: tornado8070
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2018 at 11:49am
And yes it was a factory 7020 intercooler. If you actual knew me you would know I don’t have cobbled up  on my Farm. ------------- 09’ DT205B, 08’ DT220A, 83' 8070 MFWD, 83’ 8070 85’ 8050 MFWD, 83' 8030, 82' 8010, 85’ 6080 MFWD, 84’ 6080, 79' 7020, 85' M3 RWD, 85' 920 diesel,AC C-50 forklift. |