Newbie with WD45 questions
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=145412
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Topic: Newbie with WD45 questions
Posted By: Public_Domain
Subject: Newbie with WD45 questions
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 1:32pm
Newbie here, just bought a WD45, trying to familiarize myself with it and have a few questions:
Axle s/n 166188, this corresponds to a 1954, correct?
Engine s/n 45-23124-G, the Operators manual says the format should be, 45FK110650 or 45FG110650. What do I have?
Manifold appears to be a Dual Fuel, but there is only one gas tank, does this sound right?
There appears to be plate missing, is this important or should I just ignore it?
Still working on getting it started, seller said it ran earlier this summer, but who knows if that's true or not. I'm sure I'll have more questions, but thank you in advance. I've already learned a lot on this site.
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Replies:
Posted By: Jim Hancock
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 1:43pm
Hi P D! Welcome to the forum! Glad to have you aboard! Just a little info, The serial number will start with a WD and then the numbers. It's located just below the left rear brake spring hole on the very back. I wouldn't worry about the plate missing right now. It did have a purpose but I have forgotten what it was unless it had something to do with running a vacuum pump, but I may be thinking of a nipple that was piped into it to hook a hose to. I have the same setup here on my WD, but I don't milk cows neither, like I grew up doing.
------------- How blessed we are by HIS GRACE!
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Posted By: Public_Domain
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 1:56pm
Jim thank you. I was referring to the engine s/n by the carb. Here's the axle s/n:
Neither one of them seem to start with WD and it's entirely possible that it's a mishmash of different parts, hence my questions.
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Posted By: Jim Hancock
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 2:15pm
I would concur that you have a '54 WD45 as per the serial number reference guide. But, I'd still look under the left rear brake spring hole for verification. My number is this: WD190615. If you don't have a "WD" in front of that number, at that location, then I'd say that there's been a swap along the line somewhere with a newer rear end. I only say this as you noted getting the number off of the axle vs. the location o fmost all of the WD's. The early ones had it stamped beside the left brake cover on top to the inside(or right side) of the cover.
------------- How blessed we are by HIS GRACE!
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Posted By: Jim Hancock
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 2:21pm
BTW, where do you live in Kansas? I lived at Coffeyville from 77- 88.
------------- How blessed we are by HIS GRACE!
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 2:36pm
Don't worry about that plate. Just run pump gasoline in it. Non ethanol if possible. I'm unclear as to where you are getting the axle serial number from. The tractor serial number should be where Jim directed.
------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot
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Posted By: Public_Domain
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 3:10pm
The last picture I attached is the s/n under the left rear brake spring hole, it's 6 digits like yours, but doesn't start with WD. I was calling it the axle s/n to differenciate it from the engine s/n. Sorry for the confusion.
The right side of the engine corresponds with a WD45, based on that and the s/n under the rear brake spring hole, I was under the impression that I had a 1954 WD45. The dual fuel maninfold, coupled with the lack of dual gas tanks, leads me to believe that I have mishmash. Also since neither of the s/n seem to match the standard formats, I'm wonder what I really have, hence my questions here.
I'm in the Columbus area, so about an hour East of Coffeeville.
Here's another pic of the location of the s/n that doesn't start with WD. The engine s/n 45-23124-G is located by the carb and doen't have FK or FG after the 45, like page 16 of the operators manual gives as an example.
Sorry for all the dumb questions and thank you again.
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Posted By: dt1050
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 3:19pm
welcome, ain't no dumb questions, only way to learn is to ask.
------------- Just cause it's orange don't make it a tractor, there's only one..Allis Chalmers
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Posted By: Jim Hancock
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 3:28pm
Oh, ok. Now I see. The blown up picture was what was throwing me with the lip on top of the number. Hmm, I wonder if the "WD" is filled in with paint that's before the number. Like Lonn said, Run it as is and use non ethanol gas if you can. You'll be fine. I don't think that you have a mishmash. It's just the normal build for the operations on a farm at the time. DT has it right. No dumb questions here. Ask away.
My "growing up" hometown is Carthage, Mo. where we farmed out southwest of it. You or your relatives may have heard of my dad, Alan Hancock, as he was a Funks G Hybrid seed distributor/dealer in the 70's, 80's and I think into the 90's. And he had a seed dealer there around Columbus that he delivered to. As a matter of fact, his area went 3 counties up the east side of the state!
------------- How blessed we are by HIS GRACE!
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Posted By: Michael V (NM)
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 4:17pm
that is a early WD manifold, my '49 WD has one like it ,but with the plate on it,, may have been on WC's also like others have said, good clean regular gas will be fine
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Posted By: Public_Domain
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 5:00pm
Michael, thank you. Can any one confirm that the manifold was or wasn't used on 45s?
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Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 8:49pm
I do not think that is the correct manifold for a WD45. Yours looks more like those on a WC. Here is the Kerosene manifold for the WD45.
------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Posted By: Public_Domain
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 9:13pm
Dseries4,
What are you seeing different other than the missing plate? I didn't think the WD45 had dual fuel. Mine may have had the engine replaced since it only has a single gas tank. Thank you!
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Posted By: Public_Domain
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 9:32pm
So you have confirmed that some WD45s had dual fuel. The right side of the engine is a WD45 with the removable plate. Would a WC manifold fit on a WD45? Again thank you, you guys are a wealth of knowledge!
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Posted By: Michael V (NM)
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 10:51pm
If the engine has a removable plate on the RH side, it started its life as a WC/WD 201cid engine, lotsa things could have been changed in its 60+ years..could have the insides changed to WD45 parts..and kept the WD outside parts...
Oh side note,, try an make pics jus a wee bit smaller..sure be a lot easier to make out what we're look in at..
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Posted By: Public_Domain
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 8:28am
OK, another question, how do I make the pictures smaller? I'm using Windows 10 and figured out how to crop the pictures in Paint, but how do I make them smaller? Thanks again.
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Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 8:29am
I use a free program called fast image resizer. Give it a Google.
------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC
1968 one-seventy
1956 F40 Ferguson
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Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 8:31am
These old tractors all have a story to tell. Very few are really original unless locked in a time capsule for 50 years. Yes smaller pictures will help us help you too:) Welcome to a very good forum. You have a good tractor. I would agree that it sounds like you have a WD engine block but the insides could be modified for additional hp with an WD45 crank. You won't know unless you measure the stroke. Good luck with your new tractor. BTW that manifold plate was on a WD t6hat we had on the farm. Regards, Chris
------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 10:37am
First of all, WELCOME!! You stated; "Here's another pic of the location of the s/n that doesn't start with
WD. The engine s/n 45-23124-G is located by the carb and doen't have FK
or FG after the 45, like page 16 of the http://rover.ebay.com/rover/13/0/19/DealFrame/DealFrame.cmp?bm=1008&BEFID=96424&aon=%5E1&MerchantID=481999&crawler_id=481999&dealId=Xm9B0Ynshw_3sGXxtzdsGQ%3D%3D&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brownells.com%2Frifle-parts%2Fmuzzle-devices%2Fsuppressors%2Fbpr4-suppressor-w-srm6-7-62-quick-detach-brown-sku100020819-88198-188577.aspx%3Fcm_mmc%3Dcse-_-Itwine-_-shopping-_-100-020-819%26utm_medium%3Dcse%26utm_source%3Decn%26utm_campaign%3Ditwine%26utm_content%3D100-020-819%26gdffi%3D5e517ec5e60d4cc7bbc235bfc648114c%26gdfms%3DB3CB40F635814F89857284CEB4E17508&linkin_id=8058742&Issdt=171214103325&searchID=p38.38792b0353cd2d0fb43f&DealName=Operators+Suppressor+Systems+Bpr4+Suppressor+W%2F+Srm6+7.62+Quick+Detach+-+Bpr4+Suppressor+W%2F+Srm6+7.62+Quick+Detach+Brown&dlprc=2519.0&AR=1&NG=3&NDP=5&PN=1&ST=7&FPT=DSP&NDS=&NMS=&MRS=&PD=&brnId=14305&IsFtr=0&IsSmart=0&op=&CM=&RR=1&IsLps=0&code=&acode=1017&category=&HasLink=&ND=&MN=&GR=&lnkId=&SKU=100020819-100020819-22180" rel="nofollow - operators manual gives as an example."
You
probably have paint covering the 'WD' and I can't make out the rest of
it anyway, as the pic isn't that good. (my tired old eyes?) (SHUT UP
Shameless!!)
You DEFINITELY have a WD45 block as indicated by the serial #. For info, go here; http://wsmth.people.clemson.edu/SNFind/esn_tsn.htm" rel="nofollow">http://wsmth.people.clemson.edu/SNFind/esn_tsn.htm Book mark that site, you'll use it often!!!
Your engine # 45 shows it's from a WD45, - 23124 shows it's in the range of 1954 (17400 - 50981) and the G at the end shows it is Gas. So yeah, your's is definitely a 54 model.
Yes, the manifold has been changed at some point. The 45 did NOT come with dual fuel. I don't have my manual here with me, it's at the farm, so I can't look to see where you got that ( 45FK110650 or 45FG110650 ) from.
Keep asking, that's how we all learn. At least we're SUPPOSED to...
------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 11:05am
I am thinking that you could get the 45 as dual fuel, at least early on. I think the Nebraska Test shows they tested one. I'll quick take a look and post it below.
This site shows a tractor fuel model tested Oct. 1953 test #511. http://www.allis01.com/fossto/WD45-data.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.allis01.com/fossto/WD45-data.html
------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot
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Posted By: Public_Domain
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 11:59am
Lonn, thank you for the additional link. So although the WD45 was made in dual fuel, according to Ted, the G in the engine serial number means it was gas. That plus the single gas tank would imply that the manifold was swapped at some point.
Stan, thank you for the image resizer info, here's my first attempt at using it and more questions:
What is the silver button on the electrical box? I can't find it in the operator manual.
What is the lever for? I can't find it in the operator manual.
More parts that came with the tractor, any ideas what they are? An extra drawbar and ???
Again thank you for all of your assistance I really appreciate your putting up with a bunch of newbie questions!
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Posted By: Public_Domain
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 12:09pm
These are some other parts that came with the tractor. The long shaft is the PTO which has been removed and I know what the center link off a 3-point is, but what about the other brackets?
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Posted By: Jim Hancock
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 12:32pm
Hi P D. The silver button looks like a a starter button.Turn the key on and push it. Originally, the two loop rings under the quadrant were the starter and choke. Just pull back on the right one and engage the starter. Left one is the choke- just a quick pull shut and push open movement is all it takes, if that, to start it. The handle is a hand clutch. Put the transmission in gear and pull the handle back to engage the hand clutch to make the tractor move on the ground. This can be slipped all you want as it runs in oil and was designed that way for the implements of the day like a round hay baler. The spring is a snap coupler bell spring that helps keep the drawbar or other implement eye attached underneath the tractor. This also helps "feel" the draft on the drawbar or other implement attached and hooked to the traction booster. The arms are implement arms and look like they go to a blade. And the last pic is of the snap coupler latches and the pto shaft. The 90* plate appears to fasten to the tractor to accept a pto shield with the slot in it. Although, the wide step plate that comes with the tractor had one on them , and yours has it. So, it's a guess as to what it's for. Someone else can chime in on that.
------------- How blessed we are by HIS GRACE!
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Posted By: tadams(OH)
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 1:34pm
Does your WD by chance have a alternator on it instead of a generator, if it does the silver button could be to activate the alternator to make it charge also the left brake pedal is different, it should match the right one. Tom
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Posted By: Public_Domain
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 2:36pm
Jim, thank you again. The tractor has the two rings and the right one does engage the starter, the left one is the choke, but it's missing the spring and is wired open. The hand clutch is interesting, Father had a WC and I don't remember anything like that on it. Are the snap coupler parts worth anything? I'm thinking I want to convert it to a 3-point if I get it running and everything seems to be in order.
Tom, thank you as well, based on the following picture, I assume I've got a standard generator:
I'll have to take the electrical box apart and see what if anything the switch is connected to. I missed the different brake pedals! Thanks again to everyone for chiming in and your patience with a newbie.
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Posted By: drobCA
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 2:44pm
hey PD - you're right to thank Jim & the others for their sage advice, but... there's a lot of us other learners who gain a lot by following your string here. so... thanks to you as well for sharing your adventure.
------------- 3 Ford 8N's I loan to neighbors, but the '52CA, '41B and little B1 I do not.
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 3:07pm
The shield with the small slot in it pictured with the PTO shaft looks like a PTO shield for a C or B Allis or a 190 or D19.
Also in the same pic are snap couplers that go on the lift arms. They look like the later style which is much better than the ones a WD45 came with. Value on the snap couplers...... guessing $30 to $75 a piece and since those look pretty nice probably those rank at the higher end. You may want to keep them if you ever want to use the tractor with Allis snap coupler equipment like a plow or rear blade. For it's day, it was tough to beat a WD45 with Allis snap coupler equipment.
------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot
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Posted By: Public_Domain
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 4:49pm
Jim here's a better picture of the stuff in the picture with the snap coupler bell spring:
So other than the snap coupler bell spring and snap couplers, what am I missing to use a snap coupler? My main initial use is to add a shredder/mower to cut the trails through my woods. Would I be better off with 3-point or a snap coupler shredder/mower? All of my experience has been with 3-points. How hard is it to find snap coupler equipment and how is it's price compare to 3-point?
Again, thank ALL of you for your time and patience.
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 4:57pm
for that task i'd stick with a 3-point mower and that would be much easier to find.
------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot
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Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 6:11pm
When using the expanded reply form for adding a photograph, just set the height to 480 and the width to 640 (providing the picture is landscape mode) and that will take care of the shrinking to fit all our computer screens. If the pixels are 3 x 4 and its portrait mode, still set the width to 640 and the height to 854.
Gerald J.
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Posted By: fixer1958
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 6:38pm
I would say the silver button is the Eject Button if you have ever watched James Bond movies. Have seen some that have been modified to a push button starter.
The RH hand lever is your is for your hand clutch, for mowing etc. so you can disengage so you don't get pushed through a fence or tree, or then again could be the reason for the silver button.
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Posted By: Michael V (NM)
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 6:48pm
I'll throw some more out there,, that's not a wd/wd45 style seat,, its been changed,, the genney might be a 12 volt convert, look for a regulator mounted on the battery box or maybe somewhere else..I have a WD45 that has a 12 volt generator with the regulator mounted on the front of the battery box the "hand" clutch you have circled in one of the pictures is called the transmission clutch in the owner manual, it provides 'live' PTO, ie, you can slow or stop the tractor forward motion without stopping the PTO
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Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 6:49pm
PD, I may be wrong but that drawbar looks like a pin hitch (older WD style) and the bail or support is not AC std equip. Just my 2 cents. Maybe I missed something in the pictures. Yes you have a generator there. The button on the top of the dash is not std equip. So as mentioned it could have been for a selinoid (SP) switch?? Three point hitch systems can be purchased from several suppliers on this forum. Range probably from $300 to $600. Good luck with your tractor. Keep asking questions. Regards, Chris
------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2017 at 7:37am
Welcome , here's some facts, the dual fuel WD45 tractor used two tanks one foe gas and a tank on the front of the tractor for the LPG and used a total dif carb. AC built WD45 tractors that burned k, they started on gas and after it was warmed up switched to K. and had a starting tank under the right-rear hood that had a manifold that looked some-what like your manifold but your manifold is for a gas WD not used on the WD45, the wd45 K tractor where built just not a lot where and they used a side plate manifold with a the ex that came out the side not out the top like the gas tractors did. jope the helps. Don
------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.
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Posted By: dt1050
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2017 at 8:57am
The wd45 is an awsome machine, I started with an 8n and when it burned a valve the neighbor let me barrow his wd45....WOW, when I climbed on the wd45 and used it, that was it, been all Allis's ever since.
the handle for the hand clutch will really help when mowing hay, if the tractor starts to bog down in the thick stuff, just push the lever foreward, the tractor stops but the pto keeps turning. my wd45 was a mix match, had a leyland front end, psteering from a combine cylinder and a psteering pump from a chevy truck, etc. but worked great.
don't worry about asking a bunch of questions, the folks on here are great and they realize not everbody grew up on these machines. they are always willing to help with an Allis, heck I've even seen them respond to posts for green tractors. good luck, dt
------------- Just cause it's orange don't make it a tractor, there's only one..Allis Chalmers
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Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2017 at 10:57am
Everything has been pretty much covered by the others so far. No, don't be afraid to ask ANY and ALL questions you might get. Keep a pad of paper on you when you're doing anything on it, so you can write it down right away and not remember what it was later. That push button might be for an add on light. The easiest way to do it would be to NOT have the tractor running and push the button and see if any lights come on. If not, then I'd check the wiring to see where it goes. For parts of the tractor that you want to see what it is, here is the link to the AGCO books. You can go here, use the Guest User: [ View Books ] button sign in and then in the 'Search by Model' put in WD45. In the next block, where it says "All Brands", click on the little down arrow and choose AGCO Allis. Then hit the search button. The next window will give you this: WD / WD45 / WD45D TRACTOR; POWER UNIT - W226 Click on that and then the next window will open the book. It'll open the parts book so you can see ALL the parts of these tractors. You might have to play around with it a little, to see what you can see, but it's pretty easy. You should have an Index on the left and then a Picture in the middle and then an explanation and parts numbers on the left. http://www.agcopartsbooks.com/PartsBooksN/login.aspx?region=NorthAmerica" rel="nofollow - http://www.agcopartsbooks.com/PartsBooksN/login.aspx?region=NorthAmerica
Hope this helps!! Ted
PS As to your missing plate, see page 60 of the book I mention above, It shows it
------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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Posted By: Public_Domain
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2017 at 1:48pm
Gerald, thank you, I'll give that a try, I never much cared for that technical stuff ;-)
fixer1958, thank you, nothing happened when I pushed the button so if it's the eject button, it isn't working.
Michael, thank you, I appreciate knowing that the seat has been changed, I'll probably just put a cover on it. The label on the generator says 12 volt, there appears to be a regulator mounted on the front of the battery box. I'm still getting my mind around the hand clutch, I appreciate the description, just seems odd.
Sugarmaker, thank you for chiming in on the "drawbar," I'll investigate the silver button further and I'll probably investigate purchasing a 3-point once I make sure I get it started and everything works.
Don, thank you for the information, that helps my understanding of exactly what I have a lot.
dt1050, thank you for explaining which way to move the hand clutch.
Ted, WOW, thank you for the link, I need to pour over that for awhile, it will help a lot!
I can't say thank you enough for all or or time and assistance.
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Posted By: Alberta Phil
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2017 at 2:50pm
I bought an old WC a few years ago that had a push button like that added that didn't seem to do anything. I traced the wiring up under the hood and there were a set of car horns mounted on top of the valve cover. The button was to blow the horns, but they didn't work anymore. They went into the scrap bucket!
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Posted By: Public_Domain
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2017 at 8:24pm
Albert, I haven't noticed any horns under the hood, but I haven't looked real close ;-) I think I need to trace the wires like you suggest. Thank you for your input.
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Posted By: dt1050
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2017 at 4:54am
Alberta Phil wrote:
I bought an old WC a few years ago that had a push button like that added that didn't seem to do anything. I traced the wiring up under the hood and there were a set of car horns mounted on top of the valve cover. The button was to blow the horns, but they didn't work anymore. They went into the scrap bucket!
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the one thing I've found working on these old machines ya just never know what somebody has done to them in the last 50 years.
------------- Just cause it's orange don't make it a tractor, there's only one..Allis Chalmers
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Posted By: dt1050
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2017 at 5:10am
my wd45 ran great for years,then started burping, farting and not running well at higher rpms. couldn't find a thing wrong, till I noticed the govoner wasn't moving correctly...the person before me put a long nail in for a cotter ping and it was hitting the block behind the carb, which kept the gov. from working properly.
look for stuff like that once ya get tearing into it, correct it before your in the field trying to get hay in before the rain..
------------- Just cause it's orange don't make it a tractor, there's only one..Allis Chalmers
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Posted By: Public_Domain
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2017 at 6:20am
dt1050, good advice, thank you. I'm sure I'll find much more than the just the silver button before I'm done.
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