HD16DC steering problem.
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=144512
Printed Date: 10 Nov 2024 at 3:38pm
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Topic: HD16DC steering problem.
Posted By: Morten.have
Subject: HD16DC steering problem.
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2017 at 11:55am
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Hello guys. I have a steering problem with the HD16DC I just bought. When I want to turn (bought ways) and pull the steering lever it’s do nothing at all. But when I hold the steering lever activated for over 1 minute and drive it’s turn great. So maybe I have a pressure/flow problem but I can’t find it. What is the pressure between the valve and the clutch piston going to be? I don’t know my pressure yet because I’m missing a tee adapter for my gauge. I have also thought that the valve have a problem because the pull clearance only is about 10mm. But I don’t thinks it’s a problem. See picture. What do you guys thinks wrong? |
Replies:
Posted By: Morten.have
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2017 at 11:57am
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Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2017 at 12:08pm
| There will be filter for the steering oil, I am not sure where they hid them on the 16 but mine were choked solid when I got it due to being behind a bolt down cover. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2017 at 12:15pm
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Did a little research for you, is a similar set up to my 7G. The steering pump has a suction filter inline then TWO discharge filters downstream before the steering control valves. Still do not know 'Where' they are but know these are on the DC series per Minnpar parts guide. http://www.minnpar.com/manuals3.asp?FName=CRAWLER%20AND%20WHEEL%20DOZER%20MANUALS&SFName=ALLIS%20CHALMERS%20%2C%20FIATALLIS%20CRAWLER%20DOZER%20MANUALS" rel="nofollow - http://www.minnpar.com/manuals3.asp?FName=CRAWLER%20AND%20WHEEL%20DOZER%20MANUALS&SFName=ALLIS%20CHALMERS%20%2C%20FIATALLIS%20CRAWLER%20DOZER%20MANUALS HD16 D and DC are on the same guide. |
Posted By: Morten.have
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2017 at 12:34pm
| Tanks for the answer. I hope it’s gonna be helpful. But witch of your filters was clogged? The discharge or the suction ? |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2017 at 12:44pm
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ALL Unlucky for me my 7G has screen strainers below fluid level, had to drain, remove and clean both of those and change all the filters. |
Posted By: Morten.have
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2017 at 12:47pm
| Ok. I will clean the hole system out then 👍🏻 |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2017 at 1:10pm
| You noted the old machine sat a long time, is very easy to have moisture buildup and settlement materials get to the filters after so long. |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2017 at 5:25pm
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I'm the novice here but also have a HD 16DC. My serial number is 5272 making it a 1961. My hydraulic steering filters and clutch are in two canisters with bolt on lids on the right side of engine up on top and right behind engine fan. Has two cartridge filters. I was lucky and both filters were clean as were the canisters. I had the same question on mine regarding steering using only the steering hand controls. My tractor if moving with blade up and not pushing a load needs both hand control and corresponding foot brake for any real steering. Using just hand controls while moving you only see gradual steering. Told that is typical. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2017 at 5:39pm
| Typical Allis, the clutches do not always release enough to cause it to steer, pointed uphill my 7G will slip turn when apply a clutch or when have a full bucket but not on flat and level. May migrate a little offline but not turn as does a Cat when disengage a clutch. pointed downhill pull opposite side clutch to make it steer the other way(weight to your advantage) |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2017 at 6:16pm
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Thanks DMiller. Good confirmation. On mine for test, pulled on both hand clutches at same time and when in gear will not move forward. |
Posted By: R.KYLE
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2017 at 8:38pm
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ON MY 16DP TO MAKE SHARP TURN PUSH DECELERATOR PEDEL BRING ENGINE TO IDLE. PULL STEERING LEAVER AND APPLY BRAKE. LET ENGINE IDLE UP A LITTLE YOU WILL FEEL PEDAL GO DOWN SLIGHTALY. THIS LOCKS BRAKE AND TRACTOR WILL TURN ON THE SPOT. |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2017 at 9:42pm
| Good one! |
Posted By: Morten.have
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2017 at 6:42am
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I have now checked the 2 pressure filters, there is a bit dirt but nothing to write home about (se picture) I can’t find the suction screen. But I think it’s in the trans case. I will clean that one out when I get 2 new pressure filters. The machine can’t still not steer |
Posted By: Morten.have
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2017 at 6:44am
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Posted By: Morten.have
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2017 at 12:29pm
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I did drain the trans fluid today after all. The button guard near cost me a stroke! And the giant strainer filter housing isn’t service friendly at all! But I get it out. It’s dirty but I still don’t thinks I have found the problem yet. But I will fill it with new oil tomorrow and try again. Should I in some way feed the trans pump ? It’s a long way for the pump to suck it up or maybe drive down hill to feed it up. 
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Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2017 at 2:59pm
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Where was this filter located Morten? My 16 is a DC so it has a Torque Converter but not a power shift. Filters on my tractor are ( at least what I can find) 1. 2 Hydraulic filters in canisters on right side of engine by radiator fan. 2. 2 Fuel Filters. A primary and secondary. 3. 2 engine oil filters. 4. Return Fuel filter screen. Right side just past the firewall. 5. Steering Clutch and final drive breathers at rear of tractor. 6. Tranny, brake, steering oil system suction line screen. Have not touched this and not sure where it is at. 7. I have the donaldson dry air filter system not the oil bath version. This is all I am showing for filters. Not torque convertor filter, Not sure if there is a separate Clutch Filter cartridge like you show. What am I missing folks? |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2017 at 3:06pm
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he may have suction air leak? maby the pump is worn? IIRC the later tractors pump fluid from trans and the pump Is located on front of the engine. that's a long ways and uphill. The pump on the trans is for lube only I believe. on my 59' the steering has its own reservoir and trans is splash lube, no pump next step after filters would be pressure checks.
------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: Morten.have
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2017 at 3:20pm
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Jerry. I send pic OFF location tomorrow. Cal. The pump have 2 out put both are 0 that’s before I checked the suction screen. I do not hope the pump is dead but I will try to feed it tomorrow. |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2017 at 3:55pm
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I wonder if you have an air intrusion. when shut off the oil flows back and takes a long time to prime back up. ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2017 at 3:56pm
| Is a positive displacement pump, with no system demand should pull and feed back to reservoir as designed, should pull suction on its own. Dash gauge should read out clutch pressure and trans pressure, these are off this pump. Definitely look at all the suction piping flexible hose connections for tears or cuts, anything that can suck air. |
Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2017 at 7:25pm
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The blue silicone is not helping. ------------- No greater gift than healthy grandkids! |
Posted By: Morten.have
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2017 at 6:26am
| . |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2017 at 6:38am
Thank you Morten. Will look over my tractor to spot it. |
Morten.have wrote:
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2017 at 6:43am
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Is this under the tractor or cannuou reach from above Morten? I have the floorboards off for linkage repair . Can it be reached from the last Nader the floorboards? Thank you |
Posted By: Morten.have
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2017 at 7:17am
| It’s under the tractor in the button of the trans gear case. It’s hidden pretty good I don’t think mine ever had been cleaned. |
Posted By: Morten.have
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2017 at 7:21am
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FINALLY I’ve got pressure at both trans oil filters there is about 150psi low idle and 500psi low idle with the lever fully depressed. It’s steering really nice now and in hi idle with out push load I can steer with out brakes only by steering clutch lever’s  
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Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2017 at 7:50am
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GREAT JOB Morten!! What do you think the smoking gun was? The sump filter or combination of factors. This is an HD16 correct? What model again? Thank you |
Posted By: Morten.have
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2017 at 9:10am
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Sump filter and new Oil. And a lot of air purged between the pressure filters and the valve block. When I got the pressure I started fine tune the pressure so left and right are acting the same, bout 500psi. It’s a HD16DC -5319 it’s a lovely tractor with a good functional diesel torque converter. But I can’t find out the age of it. |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2017 at 2:20pm
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Thank you Morten. Come spring I may go for the sump filter swap. My oil is in great condition by looking at it and when I changed out my pair of hydraulic steer filters they were very clean. My HD16DC serial is 5272. That makes mine a 1961. I will look up your number and confirm Year. |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2017 at 2:29pm
Mine is s diesel torque converter as well. Runs wonderful.. Picked it up in September and have been doing service and getting everything repaired. New batteries, all new battery cables, All filters and fluids. Change oil in final drives repaired frozen and leaking slack adjusters. No major engine or drive train work. Re wired gauges and added headlights. Loving it all. |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2017 at 2:31pm
| How do you purge air Morten? |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2017 at 2:53pm
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According to the book of serial numbers yours falls into tractors produced in 1961. 1961 serial numbers go from #5098 to # 5447. Hope that helps ya out. |