190XT Injection Pump Fixed
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=143930
Printed Date: 02 Nov 2024 at 12:19am
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Topic: 190XT Injection Pump Fixed
Posted By: calico190xt68
Subject: 190XT Injection Pump Fixed
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2017 at 12:13pm
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I successfully removed my injection pump, had Ed rebuild the pump and then I reinstalled. I wanted to give a big thanks to Dr Allis, InjpumpEd, Lynn Marshall and this forum. Since I am a newbie to working on old tractors, I wanted to make a few points, in case some other new guy takes this on. 1) I followed Dr Allis instructions on removal. I am glad I scored the pump as he suggests. It didn't go in quite as easily as I thought but my marks gave me confidence I was correct. I had to remove both oil lines to get my pump off and on. 2) I used a small screwdriver to tuck the first rubber gasket around the pump shaft. I caught the edges the first few times I pushed. So far no diesel fuel in the oil. 3) My timing mark was extremely hard to see and I wasn't sure I was right before removal. Ed had me pull off the fuel line at the 3pm position going to cylinder number 1. I saw the hole was lined up so that meant I had it correctly timed. I also used the big screwdriver on the flywheel as suggested by Lynn to get the timing lined up. Requires two people but it was easy. 4) I had a real hard time getting that back fuel line reconnected. In fact I dropped one of the washers and this caused a leak the first time I installed. I used a ratchet wrench with a toggle head to get in the back and tighten it up successfully the last time with a mirror to insure I had both washers on there. There is very little room for your fingers so I put that back line on first so I had a little more room without the other fuel lines in the way. 5) Thank goodness I had Ed rebuild the pump because he sent me the correct washers. The previous owner did not use two washers but instead used only one. That's why the pump leaked, I guess. 6) I wrote in another thread earlier about fixing the fuel lines, but after describing the symptoms to Ed, it was clear that the pump was also the problem. The tractor would run fine for awhile, then die like it wasn't getting fuel. Of course, after setting, it would start again. At the end, it wouldn't shut off. I had to turn off the sediment bowl fuel valves to get the tractor to stop. 7) Ed said the pump was a mess when he took it apart. The tractor idles much better now too. I have owned it for 1 year and didn't know how it should have idled. 8) I noticed that one of my fuel lines was actually touching the exhaust manifold so I bent it about ¼ inch away from it on pump reinstallation. 9) I had a guy lined up to do this fix, if I got in over my head. He is nervous about working on Allis tractors since he only knows red and green tractors. He estimated it would cost $500 - $700 in labor to do the fix so I feel good about saving that money and couldn't have done it without the forum! 10) Ed didn't charge me for the telephone tech support either, but it was sure helpful. He also had it done in about 1 week. I am running a little over 2400 rpms now. Hope this posts helps someone else new. The small details can be the devil. ------------- 80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC |
Replies:
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2017 at 12:38pm
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Glad you got everything all done. These tractors really aren't too complicated to work on. The biggest thing is having a lot of common sense, and asking advice on here seems to help a bunch! I know I learn something new everyday just by reading some of the technical threads. Now remembering them when I need that info is another story lol! It was a pleasure doing business with you Mike! ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: Mikez
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2017 at 10:44pm
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Good to know of more success story's as a result of the forum. I also need to send Ed my pump off our 200. What was your other post with tare down descriptions |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2017 at 8:02am
| I've have to save this topic. I need the same done to my 185 pump. It will go to Ed. I wanted to get it off this winter, but now I'm chest deep in a house project... |
Posted By: calico190xt68
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2017 at 9:42am
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My other post related to cleaning/reinstalling sediment bowls, fuel tank and fuel lines. Before I assumed it was the pump, I wanted to check the dumb things. Turns out it wasn't so easy to fix sediment bowls but they were bad. The valve was not opening very far when compared to the new bowls I bought. Not sure if they got misadjusted over time or they were that way in the beginning. Of course, I found wood splinters and other unknown large objects lodged in the valve opening that were too large to pass through to the sediment bowl. If you are fixing the pump, I highly recommend that you de-install those sediment bowls and see what comes out. A lot of gunk had piled up over the years that could not get into the bowl. I also had to waste about 10 gallons of fuel to flush the crap out of the tank. I used Dr. Allis instructions for removal of the pump. I posted those again yesterday on a D17 question although they aren't completely correct for a D17 as I now know it. ------------- 80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2017 at 1:10pm
| Hey, I see know you're in Indiana. You can come and help me with mine then. |
Posted By: calico190xt68
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2017 at 2:41pm
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I am booked up until January but if you don't get it done by then, AND you have sufficient amounts of whiskey in your parts, I might just pay you a visit. [:)] ------------- 80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC |
Posted By: CaseyCreek
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2017 at 4:30pm
You can save the fuel by buying a filter funnel which will filter out the water (yes) and debris. You just drain the fuel into a tank and pump it back into the tractor fuel tank. Works pretty darn well. https://www.amazon.com/FloTool-Fuel-Filter-Funnel-Model/dp/B00PX0ZOSU" rel="nofollow - https://www.amazon.com/FloTool-Fuel-Filter-Funnel-Model/dp/B00PX0ZOSU You can add me to the list of happy InjPumpEd customers on this forum. He fixed up a pump for my 185 a month or so ago. Couldn't be happier. I also benefited from the experience of Dr. Allis and others. Dr. Allis' information about how to re-connect the plunger and how to scribe the pump were very helpful. He also knew that I would need to remove the fuel filter to have room to install the pump more easily. This thread started by Marshall is the clearest I have seen about how to remove and install a pump: http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/185-injection-pump-removal_topic56731.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/185-injection-pump-removal_topic56731.html ------------- D17 Series III,D17 Series IV, 185 |
calico190xt68 wrote:Posted By: calico190xt68
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2017 at 10:24am
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I hadn't had much time to use the tractor since I reinstalled the injection pump until this weekend, but much to my dismay, I found diesel fuel in my oil. So, does anyone have any tricks on placing that first umbrella seal on the shaft and ensuring that it stays in place while shoving the pump on? Here is what I did: I tucked the edges in all the way around the seal into the pump hole. I had placed some lubricant all around the seal edges and on the inside of the pump before doing this. I then kind of twisted it gently thinking that wouldn't cause it to flip inside out as I moved it forward. Everything seemed to be fine when I pushed it onto the mounting studs. There was no bind, but obviously something went wrong. Any hints would be greatly appreciated. ------------- 80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2017 at 10:34am
| Get a new seal, the old one is junk now. I always use WD-40 on the seals and pump bushing) and gently tuck that seal in using a long cotter pin puller with no sharp edges, working it in all the way around. When the pump slides on an inch, pull it back out a bit to be sure it isn't rolled and then carefully shove it home. |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2017 at 11:48am
| Capital Diesel in Holt Summit Mo sells the umbrella compresser tool for putting the pump on too, compresses evenly all around and slide it on , it works great , was 11.50 a few years ago |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2017 at 12:19pm
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The tweezer tool helps, but is not a guarantee fix all. I have several of the tools I loan out with my rebuilds, and you just mail it back. Like Dr says, though, tucking it in is the hard part, and pulling it back out slightly to see that no where is the lip popped out, then slide it rest of the way on. Mike, I can mail you another seal, and loaner tools if you'd like. I can mail until 330 and have still go out today. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: calico190xt68
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2017 at 12:59pm
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Ed, why don't you go ahead and mail out seal and loaner tools. I hope to tackle it on Friday of this week. I was pretty confident that I had it correctly setup since it slipped in so easily, but it wasn't. So, the tools may help me this time. Thanks Ed. ------------- 80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC |
Posted By: lowell66dart
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2017 at 3:35pm
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Nobody laugh, this worked for me on my 200. Cut a piece of beer can with good snips that don't leave a ragged edge to wrap around the seals. Use a small ty-rap to keep it on. Slide the pump on and when you have the seals in cut the ty-rap and gently slide the aluminum out. As suggested above lube the heck out of everything.
------------- AC 6080 (8030,7060,200,175,D-17HC, 6040,160,6140 all gone) Farmall 1066 & 656 Hi-Clear (for sale), White 2-62 High Clearance, JD 4255 Hi Clear. |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2017 at 7:58pm
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The tweezer tool worked well for my brother and I on both our 190XT’s. Take your time, and lube it as others have said. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2017 at 8:29am
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new seals, washers, and loaner tools are on their way, should get tomorrow! ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: calico190xt68
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2017 at 9:14am
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Thanks so much. I take it that the fuel line washers are also a one-time use item? I didn't realize this. ------------- 80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2017 at 10:03am
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Typically yes. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: calico190xt68
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 8:41am
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Just an update on this. The tools that Ed sent helped me to successfully install the shaft seal. He sent the pinchers and he sent me a tube to slip the seal onto the shaft. I used wd40 and pushed the pump over the seal with the pincher holding the seal in place, and then backed it up a little and then pushed it home as Dr Allis suggests. I didn't get this done until this past week. I ran it for about 2 hours and did not find any fuel in the crankcase so I think it is fixed. I also wonder if it being much colder helped to keep that seal from rolling since it was much stiffer, versus when I did it in 70 degree weather. I will be sending Ed's tools back now. I hope this works because I am sick of installing and deinstalling the pump! I hate installing that fuel line on the back of the pump! My crankcase sure got cleaned by the diesel/oil mixture after I drained it. ------------- 80 7010, 80 7020. 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 10:17am
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good deal! I've been wondering about this! ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |