Wore Out
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=143137
Printed Date: 28 Sep 2024 at 9:15pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Wore Out
Posted By: Charlie175
Subject: Wore Out
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 8:16am
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Anyone truly wear out a tractor? With everything so rebuildable, can you wear it out. Well I guess cost would be a factor. ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Replies:
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 8:41am
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We wore out a JD 1520. Yeah, it's green, that must be the reason! But: steering linkages were all shot. Clutch wore out. Engine was up to about 2 qt per hour of oil. Sure, everything could have been fixed. Not hardly the same tractor by then, and cost was not worth it.
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Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 11:58am
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Yes grandfather basically wore out a C and D17 C needed to be held in 3rd gear steering was so sloppy you had to always correct the wheel. Was on its 2nd motor. He wasn't hard on it he just racked up a huge amount of hours on it. The 17 was rebuilt several times, jumps from 2nd and 3rd. Clutch linkages had a fair amount of wear and the loader has been welded many times. Now the 17 is mine and is basically just a reminder of him and what he thaught me as a tike so far doesn't have a role. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 12:49pm
| Generally those things don't wear out at the same time. You can drive a tractor with worn steering linkage. You can use a tractor with worn brakes if you farm level land. You can use a smoky tractor that desperately needs an overhaul. In the end you expect these items to wear out, but not at the same time. You fix these things as they need it. There's a point where it becomes neglect. |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 12:59pm
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I was thinking about the Allis Engineers comment that Farm tractors would need to be replaced every 7 years due to wear and tear due to the pace of farming at that time (50's). ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 1:06pm
There were a lot of those 1950s tractors still around 21 years later. Many hadn't even needed an overhaul yet. Was he thinking like the automotive engineers who expected you to replace your 1963 car every two years? |
Charlie175 wrote:Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 1:44pm
Neglect....for sure. We had help wearing out that 1520. My grandpa bought it WELL used from a highway construction company. No clue on hours. Then dad took it from grandpa. Dad never too much on major repairs, basic maintenance not too bad, but stuff didn't get attended to until it downright didn't work. Anyway, yes, it die of neglect.
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Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 2:05pm
x2! Replace things as they age/wear out, and you will never have a "worn out" machine, regardless of hours on the meter. Of course, give it enough time and you'll have basically built a new machine because everything's been replaced.  I think some of the time a machine gets worn out because the farmer isn't necessarily neglectful, but they just don't know how to properly fix/maintain the piece themselves. I had some ancestors like that. They knew how to farm, but mechanics they were not. They didn't have the proper tools to do major work themselves, but they couldn't really afford to have it done, either. My All-Crop 60A was a perfect example of that. Great-granddad fixed it as best he could, with what few hand tools he had, and it out-lasted him. But....the way it was fixed, it would never outlast me.  So, I did a few proper repairs on it, and now it runs right alongside my other 60A that was extensively refurbished by the PO. It's just plain hard to wear out an All-Crop, even if you're just a cobbler at best!  Oh...something else....wear out a John Deere 4020 shifter enough, and you'll get a 3rd reverse gear of 9 mph. Then notch out the dash to get a 14 mph reverse in the 6/8 gear range.
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Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 5:19pm
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When I was farming, milking cows, I never had time to fix things the way they should have been fixed, complete repair. I would fix things just enough to keep things going. ------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
Posted By: Wdtractorman
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 5:37pm
| I ran a D8 all winter one winter that was a 71 model. The owner of it keep it up very well any time any thing was wrong, even little things it was downed and fixed. With CATTERPILLAR brand parts. It had like 80k hrs on it it ran better than the 89 model d8 with 11k hrs on it I ran. |
Posted By: Bill_MN
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 7:11pm
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I think when a major casting or frame member cracks or bends is the point you scrap or part out a tractor, the wear parts can be replaced but when metal fatigue sets in on the body of the tractor is when you could say it is "worn out". ------------- 1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 7:13pm
| Know of a 180 that had duals pulling a 14 ft disc, 4 bt. plow, cut hay, all around tractor, had proper maintaniece, and still going strong, 15000 hrs on it now, did have an engine overhaul around 10,000,, if the proper maintanice is used, they can last a long tine |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 7:21pm
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Hadda JD 420 gas, that was plumb wore out. Prior to me buyin it, it musta threw a rod, cause 1 cyl wall was all scratched up, and there was a crack up the block, on the carb side. I drilled and tapped a 5/16 bolt, into the upper end of the crack, to stop it spreading upward. When I got rid of it, it had 60 PSI compression, on 1 cyl, and 90 on the other, so I'd say it was wore out...
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Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 8:08pm
| if things are repaeired as needed not when it wont go any more then it will probley stay in service another 70 years. the only reason things turn to junk is abuse and neglect |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 8:12pm
Agree!
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Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 8:15pm
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True you can keep a machine running for a long time but it comes a time when its wearing out your wallet. |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 8:44pm
I got the feeling this comment was meant toward me. If I remember the story right his C was new in '46 for many years it was the only tractor while grandpa milked 18 to 22-24 cows plus the young stock covering roughly 80 tillable acres not to mention a bit of custom work. At some point a used WD or WD 45 showed up and in roughly '77 a used D17 replaced the WD or WD 45. In its early years the C did all the field work plus ran a belt pulley hammermill and plowed snow with it during the winter. Based on how easy it is for us to rack 400/450 hours a year on a 6080 I don't doubt grandpas C put on 600-800 hours a year in its prime. He milked for 46 years, ground feed for me and my uncle for another 10 after that with it. Thinking back he the driveway/ yard was snow plowed by it for 62 years. You can call it neglected if you want it put on a LOT of hours it wasn't neglected it worked. Wouldn't shock me if it had 25,000 to 30,000 hours. Yes he could have replaced everything that showed wear but what would be left of the original tractor? Frame and tin work? ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 8:51pm
| Dad had a 1969 John Deere 4020, with 37,000 hours on it, finally the transmission was so worn out, it was cheaper to move on to something else. |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 9:11pm
| What will it cost to matinee todays new tractors when they are 60 years old like some of the tractors we are using today? MACK |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 9:42pm
With all the electronic bs will they feasibily make it that long? I always say the 80's and early 90's was the pinnacle of tractor manufacturing since then they went backwards. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 9:47pm
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The 1967 190XT that I am currently restoring. Story was that it was the main tractor on a dairy farm responsible for most of the tillage. When I bought it, the tach was not working but only read 4500 hours - definitely not working for a long time. Jumped out of gear - so I rebuilt the transmission. The 93 hp engine was only putting out 77 - complete rebuild. Turbo did not work - put a new one on. 3 Point hitch welded up and very worn - replaced with a tight one from a 200. Brakes would not stop - new brakes. Basically, I bought it because the sheet metal was straight and complete and the price was right. Currently have over $22,000 in its restoration. Working on getting everything put back together. It is a lot of money, but compare that to the price of a brand new 100 hp tractor. By comparison it's a hell of a deal... ------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080 |
Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 10:32pm
No worry about if the new one will run in 60 years,no fuel by then. All good things start on the left coast . Sorry my mistake,ALL CRAZY things start on the left coast.Just declared ALL INTERNAL COMBUSTION must go.Not that old tractors like cheap,poor quality fuel,but I bet they will run on home brew a lot longer than the high tech ones.
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Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 3:41am
Negative. |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 3:48am
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I ended up with two very worn WD's, parts of them you just shook your head and wondered how it ever got neglected that long. some repairs were with a welder or torch when it should have been repaired or replaced. They both still functioned, but were not very much fun to drive/ work. Both needed lots of dollars and time to bring them back to near factory condition. They had done hard farm work since they were new. They were used and fixed only as needed. A refurbished / maintained tractor is much more enjoyable to do some work with! Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 4:47am
| You don't have to maintain them in like new condition and you certainly don't have to repaint them every 10 years. It's just that wear parts do need to be replaced as they wear. This includes an engine overhaul when needed. I'm not saying that if you buy something that is already worn to where you only expect a few more years of use that you should bring that tractor up to good condition again. This is where it gets to be too expensive. This is a matter of previous owners allowing the machinery to go too long without maintenance. |
Posted By: matador
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 6:58am
| We wore out our old Deere 4520. Yes, anything can be replaced, but when you have a machine where everything needs it, the machine is worn out. For doing 18k hours in her life, it was one heck of a run |
Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 7:08am
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I have a couple tractors I use that have some problems that would cost more to fix than I can go buy a running and operating same model tractor.It just wouldn't make sense to spend the time and money to fix them.Example is the David Brown 780 I rake hay with it has some major hydraulic issues but I've used it to rake hay for about 15 years now wouldn't make any sense to repair the hydraulics that I don't need and can buy another one for about the cost of the repairs.So I'll just keep running it until something major happens that I can't use it,then I'll turn it into a parts machine. |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 7:29am
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I think Gary has the right idea. The one WD I bought for parts due to a busted off rear axle. That tractor gave up a lot of good donor parts for the other tractor. Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2017 at 6:30pm
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I gotta MF 205 compact with a bad PTO, jams up, stalls motor, when you put the PTO in gear. Looked in the blue book, says something like 20 hrs to fix... Its a toyosha, so parts are likely made of unobtanium, so its only duties are 3 point hitch, non powered attachments... There's wore out, and there's wore out...
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Posted By: Wdtractorman
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2017 at 1:39pm
And that tractor would out work a new 100 hp trator to boot. My boss has rented a new jd that supposed to b 125 hp and my 67 806 will out pull and out power it bad. |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2017 at 7:09pm
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To me, it’s officially worn out when no parts are available. New or used. Then its a parts tractor. When I bought my 190xt, the draw bar hole was oblong, obviously lots of draw bar time on it. At some point a 301cu from a 7020 was swapped out. 190 pump was reinstalled. Lift arms were not worn as bad. So she got new life at the expense of another donor tractor. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2017 at 9:53pm
Sounds like the time I contemplated buying a MM ZAU a while back...price was right and condition was decent, but looking online, wear parts are virtually non-existent. If I can't get parts, I don't want it. |
Posted By: m16ty
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 6:05pm
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The key is fixing everything when it needs fixing. You can keep a tractor going a long time doing it that way. What often happens though is the steering gets sloppy and the farmer just deals with it. It starts using oil and leaking and the solution is to add more oil. Stuff replaced with bailing wire and duct tape fixes. Soon enough you end up with a tractor where almost everything is worn out. When you reach that point, its cost prohibitive to get it back into usable shape. Like when the engine finally blows, it's not worth putting the money in a rebuild when the rest of the tractor is on its last leg. Farmers can be the worlds worst about "jerry" rigging something and never get around to actually fix it. |
Posted By: wekracer
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 7:41pm
| I think you guys got it. Sometimes it's neglect but sometimes it's just the economics. For example. We have an F2 that we have had for 20 years. It's a good machine but it's probably due for most chains and belts. Not beyond due but ready. The engine has always had low compression and won't start without either. Once running it runs good. As it so happens we bought an F3 last august to replace it but didn't have time to get it in shape. While I was servicing the F2 it ran a bit of antifreeze out when I changed the oil. So we limped through with water and pump lube and drained it last fall. The problem is it doesn't make sense to change or rebuild the engine and it's worth more in parts than selling as is. It's still a good machine but by default I think it is now wore out. Unless someone wants to buy it. I can honestly say it's not neglected and is probably in the top 10% but they only sell for $2500 around here. |