H4 won't move
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=139368
Printed Date: 02 Aug 2025 at 10:53pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: H4 won't move
Posted By: Monte
Subject: H4 won't move
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 12:09am
| I just traded for a h4 and it fired right up but nothing will move.It won't track and none of the hydraulics work.All fluids are good and full.The dozer has been sitting for 3+years.Any ideas where to start would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. |
Replies:
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 12:57am
|
If you are lucky, it could be as simple as the pumps having lost their prime. I think I'd make sure there isn't water in the bottom of the sumps before doing anything drastic. I'm sure you will get better advice then mine in the next day or two. And welcome to the forum! ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: Monte
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 6:40am
| Thanks. I have a feeling that's the problem, but it will be this afternoon before I can get back down there to play with it so I thought I would ask for more educated advice in the meantime. I have never been around one of these and it was late so I thought I might have been overlooking a safety lever or something also. Is there something I could have overlooked? |
Posted By: pinball
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 7:12am
| The hydraulics are independent from the drive. tank on right side takes 30 weight oil and is driven by a hyd pump on the left front. you need to make sure it is in 1sr gear. push your lever forward on the left side by gas tank. (one that has a plate to hold it in neutral. you should hear your motor noise change. if you do then the its trying to move. if it doesn't the steering clutches could be froze from sitting that long. My feeling tells me you might not be in gear. one very important thing. there is plugs on each final drive housing. takes 1/2 in socket exender to to remove them. check them for proper oil levels first thing. sort of a weak point on that machine. I have an h4 , loader, gas myself. not a bad machine but does need to b taken care off. |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 8:49am
|
Under the floor plate on right side of machine is a hydraulic fill tube and dip stick for torque converter which supplies power to the 3 speed transmission - this is routed through a forward and reverse clutch pack ahead of transmission - from there power is routed through bevel gear to clutch drums and brake drum to a single reduction gear on axle shaft - from there to sprocket and track - fwd/rev is controlled by lever mounted on fuel tank side that also has throttle as part of quadrant. Hydraulic power is supplied by separate pump that is engine driven, supply tank for it is located on right side by seat.Controls for attachments is mounted near - check for flow from pump could be no flow or no pressure . ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: Monte
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 4:55pm
| Thanks everyone for the advice. I'm headed back to play with it some more now. I will post results later tonight. |
Posted By: Monte
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 5:04pm
| Where can I find the model number- serial numbers or information plate of any kind on this dozer. The man that owned it passed away and the guy I got it from doesn't know anymore about it than I do. |
Posted By: John(IN)
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 5:38pm
|
The serial number is on the bar below the center of the grille facing up. Probably covered with dirt. Not a plate but stamped into the frame cross bar ------------- Learn something every day! |
Posted By: Monte
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 6:13pm
| Thanks John. I appreciate it. |
Posted By: Monte
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 9:59pm
| I have a dipstick in the floor pan in front of the seat.pretty sure this is transmission.Its full. I have a dipstick under the seat. I'm not sure what this is, but it is full. I thought this was the hydraulic fluid. I found it was out of hydraulic fluid. I feel stupid but I told y'all I would let y'all know what I found.lol. The hydraulics work fine. The transmission however, doesn't. I pulled one of the plugs on the drive housing.It looks like grease in it.what should be in it and can this be the problem? I tried it in all three gears and it would never change the sound of the engine much less try to move.It acts like it is in neutral. |
Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 10:16pm
| Welcome to the forum. As Coke said, the levers on the fuel tank side are for engine throttle and one is for forward/reverse operation. If the transmission is in first gear and the forward or reverse lever is engaged and there is no change in the engine sound I would try to check the pressure to the shuttle valve operated by the lever. You will definitely need a repair manual to figure this out. pressure checks can be made on the valve with a gauge. this will let you know if the hydraulic pump operated by the engine is on air , damaged , or not puling the convertor fluid from the sump location. If there is the correct pressure listed in the book then the problem may be in the shuttle clutch. Most likely air in the pump at engine. |
Posted By: pinball
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 10:31pm
| The drive housings I put 80/90 wt oil in them. it is a sling type oil lubrication. oil gets on the lower gear and rides up to the top. The dip stick you have to remove the seat to get to is for your transmission/rear end. the one you check on the right side is your torgue converter. there is a guage on your panel that registers torgue converter oil pressure if it works or not. you will have to take the deck plate your feet sit on to get to the line where it fits onto the housing. you could take that out and see if you get oil pressure when you try to start it. not sure if theres a filter in there or not. I had that happen to me once but my problem was I forgot to put it in gear. if you don't hear the engine change at all then it sounds like maybe your converter is either in neutral. not working. or not in gear. I'm not real familiar with the converter so some else on here will have to give you better advice. If your hyd reservoir for you loader was empty then you have some leaks to repair. my controls were leaking but I took it off an put new O-rings in it so it doesn't leak at all now. |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 10:47pm
|
Torque converter level is checked with engine running - as this drives the pump for the clutch pack which is controlled by that selector lever on left . Unless clutch pack is working there will be no drive force to transmission . ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: Monte
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 11:33pm
| Thanks so much for all the advice. I don't think I have checked the fluid with it running. I was told today that the dozer was almost new when this man bought it in 74.it has only been used on the same farm this whole time.the hour meter says 125.5 hours. They said it was working perfectly when they parked it a few years ago.Its been setting under a shed the whole time.It does have a few leaks here and there so maybe it's low of transmission fluid but I didn't check it with it running. I will try to go back Thursday to work on it again. I will keep y'all posted. I appreciate all the help. |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2017 at 7:42am
| Wow! 125 hours. ..? That's lie brand new. Can you post some pictures. Thank you, and good luck with it. Darrel |
Posted By: Monte
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2017 at 8:48am
| It doesn't look brand new.lol. it's been painted, probably 20 years ago.it ain't pretty. |
Posted By: Monte
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2017 at 11:58am
| OK, I got it out of the shed and brought it home.It has a LOT more hours than the meter shows lol. I still haven't got any drive. I checked the converter fluid level with it running and it was a little low. I put about 3 quarts in it. I tried it in all three gears.foward and reverse. I'm going to pull the floor pan right now and see if I can find the spot to check for pressure. I wasn't sure of the difference between H4 and hd4 when I started this post but this is a hd4. sorry for the confusion. |
Posted By: Monte
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2017 at 12:01pm
| It wasn't 3quarts low. I over filled it. I just thought I'd clear that up before I made someone waste time their time asking.sorry |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2017 at 11:56pm
|
OK, here's a off the wall thought, could it be the steering clutches are stuck on? In other words, they turn but not engaging the drop boxes. ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: Monte
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 8:02am
| I wouldn't think so.it set with them engaged.If they were stuck, they should be stuck engaged. |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 9:42am
|
Same tractor just the engine between the H and HD - gas or diesel. Is there any change in engine RPM or sound when moving the control lever from FWD / N / REV with engine above idle RPM - in other words any drag down as troque converter transfers power to clutch pack ? ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: Monte
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 12:06pm
| No sir. I just cleaned and have ordered a new converter fluid filter.no change. The shuttle shift valve is getting warm with the machine only running for a few minutes. I don't know if that is valuable information, but I thought I'd put it out there just in case. |
Posted By: Monte
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 12:08pm
| The engine rpm never changes.it never gets any load for the drivetrain. |
Posted By: Monte
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 12:12pm
| And I know some probably think I ain't putting it in gear, but I have tried all three gears with no change.The steering clutches and breaks seem to be working fine as we used them loading the dozer on the trailer.it wasn't running.We used a winch. |
Posted By: pinball
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 1:08pm
| Did the people you got it from say why it had been parked for so long. |
Posted By: Monte
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 1:20pm
| I knew the man.He passed away from old age.He just didn't have anything left to do with it at the farm.He probably would have found something else to use it on if he hadn't been so old.He had a guy who helped him around the farm that has a new kabota with a frontend loader and a scrape blade that took care of the roads and stuff for him.right before he passed, he was telling my daddy how good the dozer was and how much he loved it. The guy that has the kabota says it was working fine when they parked it, too.So I don't have any doubt that what they say is true. I have never known either of them to stretch the truth. |
Posted By: John(IN)
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 4:03pm
|
Monte, these may be dumb questions, but does the forward/reverse lever snap into place when you move it? If not might be something in the mechanical linkage came apart. Or if it's anything like my HD4 do you have the engine running up at about 1500 to 2000 RPM when you shift into forward or reverse? Mine has to be way above idle to move. ------------- Learn something every day! |
Posted By: John(IN)
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 4:12pm
|
One other thought, does it have a diverted valve on left side, behind the seat which has a T handle. If so it may need to be pushed down. I know it redirects the hyd oil. But don't know if it has anything to do with movement of the tractor. ------------- Learn something every day! |
Posted By: Monte
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 4:43pm
| No sir. I just took the shuttle shift valve apart and part of it was stuck. I hope in the next few minutes she'll move.stay tuned.lol |
Posted By: Monte
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 5:07pm
| No change.... I'm so confused.lol |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 8:12pm
|
On my HD4 I lost reverse - when taking the shuttle valve apart - one of the springs was broken - not allowing the proper movement of the internal valve to line up with the proper port - I matched up a spring in my junk spring collection - trimmed it to size with a grinder and had it back in service on the job in about 2 hours . That small slide valve needs to be centered over right ports to apply hyd pressure to clutch pack . ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 8:13pm
| Any springs broke in the valve ? there are plugs on the front of the shuttle valve that is operated by the lever, the plugs can be removed one at a time and insert a pressure gauge to see what is being transmitted from the pump at 1500 rpms. |
Posted By: Monte
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2017 at 11:04pm
| The springs looked fine.what pressure should I be looking for? I really think something, somewhere is stopped up. The shuttle shift valve is getting warm within 2minutes of running. First thing in the morning, I'm going to let it warm up and follow the hot lines until, hopefully I find a cool spot and that should be my blockage. I just hope it's somewhere outside of the transmission.hopefully it's a collapsed hose. |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 8:30am
|
there is a filter in that system - also I believe a suction screen - don't have the circuit picture and memory is a little foggy on full routing - believe the filter was to front of machine (steel lines) ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: Monte
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 8:36am
| Yes. I have a new on waiting on me at the parts store this morning. I cleaned the old one yesterday. I haven't checked the screen yet. This maybe the problem.Its located on the left side of the transmission under the machine...... I think. I'm not looking forward to checking it. I pressure washed the dozer and it's a muddy mess under there.lol |
Posted By: Monte
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 10:16am
|
It was pretty dark in the shed it was parked in and I didn't notice it has a prolonged parked mark on the dipstick. I wonder if it's possible that it's low enough to show full on the cold mark when running because it isn't priming the converter..... I hope I worded this so everyone can understand what I'm thinking. I'm going to wait 6hours and check it and see if it is full. |
Posted By: Monte
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 10:17am
| It says 6hours min. |
Posted By: Monte
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 3:28pm
| It only shows to be a quart low.so, the pump is definitely putting it somewhere as soon as you crank it, because the fluid drops probably 3inches on the stick immediately. I'm back to a blockage.... . I hope.... |
Posted By: Monte
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 3:32pm
| If the converter was bad, how could I tell? |
Posted By: pinball
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2017 at 1:48pm
| Did you ever find your problem |
Posted By: Monte
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2017 at 1:54pm
| No sir |
Posted By: Ferdinand
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2017 at 10:24pm
From that description, I'm thinking it works like an automatic transmission in a car. Are there places on the transmission to attach a pressure gauge? On a non-working automatic transmission, one of the diagnostic steps is to put a pressure gauge at specific test points. Typical automobile transmission that I work on has 4 test ports. ------------- Because narrow is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it. Mathew 7:14 |
Coke-in-MN wrote: