Power director for pulling
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Forum Name: Pulling Forum
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=139080
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Topic: Power director for pulling
Posted By: NEVER green
Subject: Power director for pulling
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2017 at 10:55pm
  Purchased this 7580 PD from a puller while back finally took it apart, he claimed it was used one season on a thousand horse tractor. As you can see he took high side clutch and gutted the insides and continued the separator slots so they meet the low side slots. Stacked inside a total of 12 plates were used, I discovered the three very center clutch plates slipped and warped. Question for Doc and others, too many plates so the piston couldn't travel far enough to fully compress them??? I figured remove three and shim up difference? My calculations are .404 separation per clutch and separator plate, does that sound correct? I started making second PD from 7060,the most challenging part is finding a shop to weld the high and low hubs together, could machine new one, very spendy! Don't know if you can see in photo the smaller low side splines were removed and only engages high side. This new PD would have 7or 8 plates. Also could leave low splines on and remove gear on back of low shaft, maybe? Another puller on this site is considering this set up also, so comments welcome. ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Replies:
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 7:09am
| I'd say you are probably correct on not enough stroke on the piston for all those discs/plates and not enough squeeze pressure from just one clutch piston. I like my two piston design much better than that thing. Sure looks like a time bomb to me the way he did that. |
Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2017 at 10:37pm
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Doc and I had a discussion on this a while back,,, a 7580 pd with the low and high center together for either low or high which ever needed, using the low side clutch pac to start, build boost, then apply pressure to the high side to lock it up - the low side would have the resistance spring washers to cushion the start . Might add more lube flow as well. The stock clutch valve could be modified - or replaced altogether with another type of valve (s) for pressure application..if you wanted to get really cute add in s pluse width modulated valve... 9 ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |
Posted By: AndyinWI
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 10:59am
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Doc - Could you explain your two piston design? I am in need of something, would like like something that would last me a while. getting sick of splitting this thing. Haha Thanks - Andy
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 3:34pm
| You have to decide which range you are going to use, Low or High. No more on-the-go shifting. Remove the countershaft gear to the range you aren't going to use anymore. Either replace that gear with a spacer or just cut off all the gear teeth to that gear and use the hub. Figure out how to weld (or bolt?) the two clutch hubs together, similar to what these pictures show, or maybe a different method?? The clutch hubs still are used and supply lube oil to the clutch discs. Remove the Belleville piston washers from the low range piston but still use the bolts and stools to seal it up. Do whatever it takes to the P.D. valve to supply pressurized oil to BOTH low and high clutches at the same time. Not sure what that will take, but that is the premise of my dual piston clutch. Both sides are used at the same time. The input shafts are used to keep everything straight and stable. All the power goes thru the clutch hubs. Using a late model 7580 clutch, you'd had 5 discs in low and 3 discs in high for a total of 8 discs to absorb the heat. Using the thick separator plates everywhere would also be a good idea, as they will take a lot more heat before warping. The wave springs are all that returns the pistons back into their bores....just like a Power Shift tranny does. Reason for removing the belleville washers is two-fold. #1. it sees to it both clutches try and apply at the same time ( near equal wave spring pressures) and it allows the low range piston to squeeze the clutch discs tighter because there's zero resistance from the belleville return springs. I haven't done a clutch like this as of yet, soooo whomever beats me to it is a crash test dummy. Good luck !! Also, don't forget to consider replacing 2nd gear with 4th gear from a 7030/7050 which is a little faster than regular 7040-60-80 4th gear. Then, you'd have two 4th gears, slow and fast and then 5th. |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 5:09pm
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Does the countershaft have to be dropped in order to remove low speed hollow shaft?? ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 7:16am
| Technically, yes. But, if you trim away some of the shifting dogs (like a 190-200) the shaft will then pull out when rotated to the sweet spot. Clean the area with diesel fuel and a magnet. You still want to leave the low range input shaft in place to support the main shaft nose of the transmission. So, I guess remove the input shaft, grind off the gear teeth so it can't touch the countershaft and shove it back in there. |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 7:45am
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Thanks Dr., I don't understand the purpose of those specific dogs, they wont be needed once I remove the gear? ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 10:40am
| Nope. Any 180-185-190-200 didn't have a 100% shift dog count on the input shaft.. You do what you want.....tear down the whole transmission or make a slight alteration to the part causing the disassembly problem. |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 6:02pm
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Two seasons no issues , first place, 317 ft, improved stock . ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 6:08pm
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Second place 343 ft, little slow with the throttle was expecting red flag. ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 8:33pm
| Can't see the gearshift. 3rd or 4th ?? and no shifting of the Power Director, right ?? Runs real nice. How heavy?? 12,000 ?? |
Posted By: frnkeore
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2019 at 1:33am
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If it's any help, the hubs can be joined by furnace braising. A braising compound can be selected that has a tensile as strong as the hub material. The compound is in the form of a paste. You apply the past and align the hubs, bring the parts to the melting temp of the compound, in a furnace. ------------- Frank 1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14 '55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861 Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more. |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2019 at 9:07am
5th gear, no shifting up or down, classes run from 11,000 to 12,500. ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
DrAllis wrote:Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2019 at 9:10am
Very interesting, can it be used in large gaps? Some of the gaps are nearly half an inch. ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2019 at 10:18am
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3rd place finish, some showboat showed up from WI. ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2019 at 11:12am
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What was with the throttle hang on first vid? This running an A pump, and what size charger? Gotta be over 800 hp to hack road gear! Nice to see a strong running orange one! ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2019 at 2:17pm
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Good question Ed, pump guy thought seal was leaking on turbo but its only got ten runs on it ands its nice and tight and dry, sent in the pump. AMBC 100 running 540cc, 2.8 s400, I was told need over 800 hp to compete in this class. Hopefully pump guy can increase to 630cc depending on my head, don't want to spend 4900 on new head and work to get to 630cc. ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2019 at 2:55pm
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Those hi-lift M100's do require some extra work to get enough governor travel to get them to cut off completely. One of the many reasons I got away from building the hi-lifts. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: frnkeore
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2019 at 5:32pm
After furnace braising, you can fill gaps with a high strength silver solder rod. The braising paste is also a silver solder. Contact your welding supply to see what's available. ------------- Frank 1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14 '55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861 Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2019 at 8:30pm
| OK.....5th gear in what would be "LOW" button on the Power Director clutch ?? That thing runs really nice !! |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2019 at 9:21pm
Nope high side, fast as she can go. ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2019 at 10:46pm
| So, now we need 7045-50-60 final drives which are FASTER !!! |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 8:32am
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Really, didn't know that, actually own a 7060 parts tractor! Was considering making up custom 4th gears one tooth faster then 5th. How much faster??? ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 8:54pm
| 3.5 % faster. |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 8:08am
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Thanks Doc! ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 6:10pm
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Question for all you hard core pullers.... rules allow for hitch to be 18 inches back from center of axles, I can only get 21 inches from center of axles. Am wondering how much this costs me??? The rear end casting under the pto is in the way. ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 6:27pm
| There comes the matter of balance and weight placement, I got a 180 puller years ago that had one stuck out 25 inches from the center of rear axles, they said it worked best that way |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2019 at 7:17am
| There has been a handful of 7000/8000 series tractors that ran with the NTPA over the years and they were allowed to cut/grind/modify the rear end to get the drawbar to the legal shortness and max height. It does make a difference. When you spin out in the holes of the leader in the class.....you lose, because your drawbar is longer. |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2019 at 10:28am
I know some guys who embrace that theory, the longer drawbar acts like a longer breaker bar so you front end comes up easier. But also have noticed sleds making the chain longer to stop the big tractors. ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2019 at 12:32pm
| Ever watch 2WD pickups ?? I believe they are 12 inches short and 30 ? inches high. |