White Foam in Oil - G
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13743
Printed Date: 02 Feb 2025 at 1:06am
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Topic: White Foam in Oil - G
Posted By: PaxG
Subject: White Foam in Oil - G
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2010 at 9:24pm
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I think I know the answer, my head gasket is going bad on my G. But I would like to be sure. I was using the G pretty good today to drag a chain harrow in the field (covering seeds) and it kept stalling out. Fuel didnt seem to be the problem as it would start and run well a few minutes later and it showed good oil pressure. Looking at the engine I noticed oily foam in the oil filler neck and water condensation on the inside of the oil fill cap. This is a new tractor to me and I dont know the history but it seems to run strong. Dp ------------- '49 G, '51 G |
Replies:
Posted By: Glockhead SWMI
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2010 at 9:32pm
| Any bubbles in the coolant when running? Overheating? Could be two separate problems also. |
Posted By: Allen Dilg
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2010 at 9:37pm
| PAX WELCOME!! I would guess that there is a piece of CRUD in the fuel tank trying in get into the fuel outlet fitting. Try running motor at full speed and pulling choke until it just about stops, a couple times The condensation is caused by low water tempature {thermostat}, the top raditor tank should get hot when running hard. Please repost your findings. |
Posted By: Gary in da UP
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2010 at 9:40pm
| Change the oil & filter now, and keep an eye on it . If it gets milky and your loosing coolant, park it 'til you can tear down,at least pulling the head to start with. Continued use will only cost more $$$$$$ |
Posted By: Dave H
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2010 at 7:07am
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Pax
How does the oil itself look. I hve seen "new" tractors that hve a lot of water in that area and even ice in the valve cover area in the winter if it has been for sale and every tom, dick, and harry had to crank it up for a few minutes to listen to the motor and it never got warmed up.
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Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2010 at 7:13am
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I'm with Gary on this one. If the oil is foamy, not just the fill hole, I would at least pull the drain plug after setting for a day and check for water. If you are pumping coolant through the oil system, you will only cause more damage to the engine.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Dave A
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2010 at 7:19am
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if the machine is use for sort time spans and the humidy is high. This will happen ------------- Play the game for more than you can afford to lose... only then will you learn the game. Winston Churchill |
Posted By: PaxG
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2010 at 7:24am
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Thanks all for the replies. UPDATE: I did change the oil/filter and it did NOT have any foam in it. Looked normal. So that's good. The top of the radiator does get hot when running and shows no signs of bubbling over. G doesn't have a thermostat. May be running hot, but I would think the oil pressure gauge would show that - the pressure looks very good. I will pull drain the fuel tank and look for a clog. For now, the fuel bowl shows no signs of gunk. Thank you all! ------------- '49 G, '51 G |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2010 at 9:56am
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Pax - when you drained the oil, did you notice whether any water came out first? You can tell the difference between water and oil draining out - oil will be darker and thicker than the water. Oil comes out 2nd since it floats on top of the water. You can check this now that you have changed the oil - loosen the drain plug until liquid starts to come out and see if you get some water followed by oil. Good luck - let us know! ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: Clay
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2010 at 10:37am
| Have you run an oil analysis ? |
Posted By: PaxG
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2010 at 6:37pm
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Good news: I know the problem. Bad News: It's the head gasket :-( I can see coolant leaking from the seam between the head and block. It started leaking after I flushed the radiator today with Prestone radiator cleaner. Replacing the head gasket looks pretty straight forward. Do I need to have the head milled flat? Pax G ------------- '49 G, '51 G |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2010 at 7:15pm
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The head could be out of flat but the deck of the block could be also. I would check both surfaces or have somebody do it for you, before putting it back together.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2010 at 8:46pm
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This raises a question I've had for a while. If you mill a few thousanths off both the head and the block to get them flat, how do you make up for the material removed? Or can you remove material up to some limit? ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2010 at 8:56pm
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I think it would take more than a few thousands of an inch to make much difference. Mitch might see this and give us some real numbers. I've never had a G apart so I don't know for sure but if the head is flat, milling it won't make any difference in compression ratio. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Chalmersbob
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2010 at 9:12pm
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retorque the head bolts. They may just be loose.
Bob
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Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2010 at 9:41pm
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Since its a flat head engine there has to be a combustion chamber in the head to allow access to the valves along side the cylinder. If too much was taken off the head, the valves might hit the head. If too much was take off the block there would be no valve seats. I found a Continental flat head engine service manual. It says the N62 is 2-3/8" bore by 3-1/2" stroke. With a compression ratio of 6.46. If the piston top is flush with the top of the block at the top of the stroke, I compute the combustion chamber volume to be 2.84 cubic inches with the swept volume 15.5 cubic inches. If the combustion chamber was just the size of the cylinder (which it isn't) it would be 0.64 inches tall. If one takes away 0.1" (total) from block and head, I compute the compression ratio will rise to 7.48 which might demand 80 octane gas instead of 70. If one cut only .01" total, I compute the compression ratio would increase all the way to 6.55 from 6.46. Neither is much of a problem, though taking a tenth of an inch off the head would likely cause valve problems as would taking that much off the block to say nothing about holes in castings and stripped bolt holes. Gerald J. |
Posted By: JoeM(GA)
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2010 at 10:05pm
view of the bottom of a G head, you can still see the cylinder hole location faintly ------------- Allis Express North Georgia 41 WC,48 UC Cane,7-G's, Ford 345C TLB |
Posted By: PaxG
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2010 at 10:55pm
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Joe, Did you machine the head in this photo? My plan is to pull the head, bead blast it clean and re-install with a new gasket. Think this will work? Sure easier than pulling the engine. PaxG ------------- '49 G, '51 G |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2010 at 7:38am
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It's pretty easy to check flatness when the head is off. It might save you a lot of time and a head gasket if it isn't flat. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2010 at 9:34am
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To check for head flatness, get a good straight machinist's steel rule or a chunk of ground flat stock. Either will be straight enough. Lay an edge on the head, use feeler gauges to measure the gaps. Do it several directions and places. A new head gasket will take up a few thousandths of warp. Gerald J. |
Posted By: firebrick43
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2010 at 11:03am
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Gerald hit the nail on the head. Remember when these tractors was made, fuel was a much lower octane that the fuel of the late 60's onward. The compression ratio therefore was very low. Some tractors like the WD the basic engine design was used until the 175. While the changed the stroke(WD45), upped the governor, cams, and so on, alot of the power gain is from raising the compression ratio. Milling a little to flatten it wont hurt |
Posted By: PaxG
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2010 at 1:05pm
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Good advise, thank you. I still dont know why this happened. I'm thinking it might not hurt to have the radiator checked out. Any recommendations where to send the radiator off for inspection and cleaning? Would like to use an AC friendly shop. dap ------------- '49 G, '51 G |