185 540 PTO only
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=135430
Printed Date: 11 Feb 2025 at 6:12pm
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Topic: 185 540 PTO only
Posted By: captaindana
Subject: 185 540 PTO only
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 7:11pm
| Hey yall I read here a lot but post a little lately. I have my eyes on a 185 which the second owner says is straight 540 pto only. If I someday acquire a larger discbine I believe they are mostly 1000 rpm correct? Is it a big deal to convert this tractor to include both? Thanksn. Dana |
Replies:
Posted By: JayD-17(NY)
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 7:56pm
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How much larger are you considering? I'm not sure how big of a deal it'd be to convert a 185 to 1000 rpm or if it's even possible. But even if it is, I highly doubt it'd be worth it or you'd be satisfied with the results. I big enough discbine would make a 185 grunt and struggle on the bigger hills going up them and push and boss you around coming down them. We had an old IH 656 we always use to mow with. When we switched from a old haybine to 540 - 9 to 10 ft .discbine; it damn near killed the tractor. Discbine took a lot more power to run, especially upon start-up ; wasn't long before we put it over on either the 986 or I use to have a AC 200 - which handled it pretty good too. You might consider a 200 or better yet maybe a 7040 or something if you ever do go to a bigger more modern mower....these tractors would have the dual pto and don't usually command a high price tag. .....I just looked at the 185's specs over at tractordata.com......and it stated that the dual pto was a option for them.....so, I guess you could find one that had it and swap it over.......
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Posted By: cottonpatch
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 8:02pm
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I use a 185 on a NH 7220 discbine which is 9'2" cut and 540 rpm. Handles it great but it does "moan" in really thick hay. ------------- '52 CA, '61 D10 II, ‘61 D15, '66 D15II, '63 D17D III, ‘69 170, '73 185 Crop Hustler, '79 185, '79 7000, '77 7040 |
Posted By: kev/ont
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 8:21pm
| 9 foot new holland discbines run on 540 rpm only and the 10ft machines are 540 or 1000 rpm. Can be converted by flipping the front gearbox and changing the shaft (not cheap). However you can easily find used machines running at either speed. The 13footers are more than a 185 would handle. We have two 185 tractors and cut with a 10 ft machine running at 540 with no issues at all. |
Posted By: shameless (ne)
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 8:28pm
| isn't there an adapter that will slide onto the 540 shaft? |
Posted By: shameless (ne)
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 8:29pm
| welcome back Captain! we been missing you and yer pics! |
Posted By: EricPA
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 8:37pm
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Dad had a late model185 that was convertible to 1000 ------------- Life is tough,but it's tougher when you're stupid. - John Wayne |
Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 10:26pm
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I have a rear housing with the two speed laying on a pallet out back.... ------------- ALLIS EXPRESS! This year: |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 10:50pm
When I switched my JD 930 it was just flip the gearbox and change the front half of the u joint that slides on the tractor. The issue is that a 540 pto shaft has a torque limit you could easily exceed it and be bending or braking the shaft. Basically with the 1000 pto you get twice the speed and half the torque to do the same job. |
shameless (ne) wrote:Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 7:18am
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Twice the speed and half the torque....but.....That bigger equipment like larger disc bines and choppers and such are designed to flow lots of product, demanding high horse power. Let's say your engine is turning 2000 RPM, 540 PTO RPM, making 80 horsepower. Step up to a 150 HP Tractor, still 2000 engine RPM, now 1000 RPM PTO. When the engine steps down to 540, it obviously gains torque at the trade off of speed. When the engine steps down to 1000 for PTO, there's less reduction, but still a reduction. If you follow it through and calculate all the ratios of RPM, torque, and HP, there's a lot of torque in a 1000 RPM 150 HP application. Obviously, you can slow down your ground speed and not draw as much power through the machine, but it only helps so much, and it's not enough. The components of the machine are moving faster, so a load on the machine (crop on the cutting edges and through the conditioner and such in this case) puts a torque on the tractor that it can't really handle very well or for very long. In short, there's numerous ways to get your 185 to run a machine at 1000 RPM. But if it's a machine like a discbine, I doubt you'd be happy with the performance, and it will really be running your tractor hard. |
Posted By: Jordan(OH)
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 7:40am
Then what, run a discbine at half speed? Yeah, that'd work great, NOT! |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 7:42am
| It depends on how heavy the hay is and how fast you want to go. We have a 10' mower on a JD 4020 and the hired guy got it hot bad once. Usually we don't have any problem at all with power. I think a 10' would be a little big for a 185. A 190 would be a better fit or maybe you'd be ok with a 9' mower and be careful not to work it too hard. |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 9:35am
at least thats what I thought he meant. I have been running a 1327 9.2' discbine on my 190 gas normally in third high and yea, you can lay her down but that is when you get into grass that tall and heavy and the stems are trying to go through the flails before the cutters get them cut off... and that 1327 will put 120 horses in those conditions on the ground too...even in low gear. The manual says minimum 75HP or larger... A 200 Allis will run 12' moco pretty good too... Thats my experiances with discbines. ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: jiminnd
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 10:33am
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At one time there was a company that made a gear setup to change speeds, don't know if it went from 540 to 1000 or other way around. It was bulky to hang on a pto shaft but guess it worked. Don't think they are made anymore but were built in Aberdeen SD if I remember right. ------------- 1945 C, 1949 WF and WD, 1981 185, 1982 8030, unknown D14(nonrunner) |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 10:43am
| First thing I'd do is go look at it in person, and see for yourself if it has dual PTO or not. I see allis tractors advertised all of the time that claim to have only one or the other PTO s, but you can tell by looking at the picture that they are the dual PTO. Darrel |
Posted By: TREVMAN
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 10:46am
| My dad's 185 was dual speed. Take the cap bolts out, pull the unit, flip it, line up the other speed holes, insert and put the cap bolts back in. I never liked running at 1000rpm. that shaft just seemed to be turning dangerously fast, never saw a need for it. Dana, a 185 makes a very nice hay tractor. Dont expect it to keep up to your growlin kitty. You are looking at close to 30 pto hp difference...But, they are a very nice all around, handy machine. Nice to see you back, Trev. |
Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 10:50am
Hub City...lived near them for 9 years. http://www.hubcityinc.com/ ------------- ALLIS EXPRESS! This year: |
Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 10:55am
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540 http://s29.photobucket.com/user/ejons/media/AC%20stuff/002-7.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  540/1000 http://s29.photobucket.com/user/ejons/media/AC%20stuff/003-10.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  ------------- ALLIS EXPRESS! This year: |
Posted By: Nathan (SD)
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 12:03pm
I priced one in 2010. It was $3200 then. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 12:31pm
| Converting the tractor to Factory 540/1000 PTO, requires a different lift arm housing with all the gears, a different internal PTO shaft thru the trans area and a different pair of gears inside the PTO clutch drop box. |
Posted By: TREVMAN
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 6:04pm
| Never seen just 540, interesting. Trev. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 9:06am
| Many more straight 540's in my area on 185's. My beef with the 540/1000 RPM option was this(also on 200's, 7000's)......top speed on 540 selection was only 615 RPM at full throttle. With a regular straight 540 it was 680 RPM. This makes a huge difference on jobs like blowing silage up an 80 foot silo. |
Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 10:34am
Sounds like a straight 540 should run a little slower at rated rpm and maybe use a little less fuel?? ------------- ALLIS EXPRESS! This year: |
Posted By: shameless (ne)
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 6:38pm
| thanks JC! |
Posted By: WD45
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 7:17pm
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Our 185 has duel pto plus it has a turbo. We run most of the equipment on the 1000 shaft with 540 adapter. ------------- Fred Dunlop, G,B,CA, WC,WF, 3 WD45`s,gas, diesel and LP,U,D10 series III, D12,D14,D15 SERIES II,D17 Series IV in Gas and Diesel ,D19 GAS and D21,170 185,210 ,220 an I-600 8070 fwd, 716H and 1920H |
Posted By: Craig/insoh
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 8:38pm
| Buy a 7030 or larger you will not be satisfied with a 185 on anything larger than 9'2" discbine if you have any hills! We have hills here and dad bought a 5212 NI discbine AC 6080, AA 6690, MF 4355 don't pull it near as well as dad would like! 7030,7050, and7060 don't know its there plus you have enough weight to handle them without being shoved around! He also uses 1000 RPM shaft with 540 adapter so you don't have to run the big boys as hard as the smaller tractors to save on fuel 1300 engine RPM! Also you can get a 7030 or bigger cheaper than the 185! |
Posted By: captaindana
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 7:04pm
| Hey guys I have really enjoyed all of your comments! I helped a neighbor a few years ago when the flying was slow, I mowed a couple hundred acres of new seeding alfalfa with his 185 and NH discbine which I dont remember the model but it was over 10 feet. Ian and I are going tomorrow afternoon to look at a couple 185's. I will post our findings/ concerns. As usual thanks to y'all. We have 2 nice NH haybines and may not need a discbine for years. I do know a 185 will come in handy here immediately! I also know if one follows us home her number would be 10, (shhhh) 😉😉😉😉 |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2017 at 7:36am
| Good luck. I'm sure you'd like a 185! I like mine. Just remember it's a little different cutting newly seeded alfalfa and a 8 year old stand that has a lot of grass and weeds in it. |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2017 at 8:59am
| I hope you can find a good one, Captain. We acquired a very sweet 185 from a good friend a few months back, and love it. It's got the dual PTO and the hyd PTO clutch. Right now it has a du-al 340 loader on it, which is great for now, as it's the only loader tractor on the place that works, but eventually, that will come off. Darrel |
Posted By: captaindana
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2017 at 6:51pm
| Hey guys I felt like the pied piper as Allis 185 (number 10) followed us right home. Nshe is an1973 all original and tight. We might also get her stall mate a 1980 but has been repainted. So our new Purring Kitty has reL nice PO original paint and a dual 540/1000 rpm pto which we swapped back to 540. Now Ill order a new radio, canopy, filters, all fluids etc. oh yeah and Ill get some pics but IDK how to post them, that will be another day. Ian is so excited as it's the same year as he.😉👍. What a great way to end February! |
Posted By: Sam T-Ga
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2017 at 7:15pm
| I have185 with dual pto and have never run anything on the 1000 side. I pull a FC303GT Kuhn mower-cond with fail cond. Also pull Claas 160 baler. Kuhn is 9ft 10in cut on the first round. It is a lot more trouble to replace seals on dual pto |