D17 Series 3 Restoration Project & Engine Rebuild
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13447
Printed Date: 01 Mar 2025 at 1:19am
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Topic: D17 Series 3 Restoration Project & Engine Rebuild
Posted By: jmfonzy
Subject: D17 Series 3 Restoration Project & Engine Rebuild
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2010 at 10:12pm
| How do I pull the engine block out of my Series 3 D17 to carry it down to the machine shop? It is the 226 Gas engine. I have it stripped down and hooked to the hoist, but don't want to go any farther W/O some advice. Do I have to take the whole front part of the tractor apart to get that block out of there? Any help out there? |
Replies:
Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2010 at 10:16pm
| If it is a wide front, the whole front end can get pulled away from the engine by removing 6 bolts. Put some blocks under the torque tube to support the rest of the tractor. |
Posted By: jmfonzy
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2010 at 10:18pm
| Yes it is a wide front end. Where is the torque tube? Is that the transmission bell housing? |
Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2010 at 10:46pm
| the toruque tube is the long piece between the engine and transmission. |
Posted By: BobHnwO
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2010 at 8:21am
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Just split my D17 Series 1,pulled the motor and rebuilt it,when you pull the front end lock the wheels so they can't turn sideways and keep the wishbone level so you don't dump the power steering resevour,get a manual,it will really help.
------------- Why do today what you can put off til tomorrow. |
Posted By: jmfonzy
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2010 at 3:28pm
| Great! How did you lock the wheels so they didn't turn and how did you keep the wishbone level? If I set a couple of Jack stands under the huge bell that should hold the rear part of the tractor up for me to take off the front part right? Could I get a couple of stands and do the same for the wishbone and the fron axle? Will wheel chocks work to keep the front wheels from rolling or are you referring to the wheels leaning on one side or the other? |
Posted By: Gatz in NE
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2010 at 4:54pm
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jmfonzy
I helped Dave (NE) take his D17D (wide front) oil pan off and the front end needed to be rolled forward same as what you're doing.
After removing the radiator and taking the power steering lines off, we used a heavy screw-jack under the "torque tube", then loosened the 4 bolts holding the bolster to the side rails.
Drove wedges between the axle tube and the bolster. We didn't do anything to keep the wheels from pivoting and it never became as issue, but it wouldnt hurt to somehow clamp them in the straight-ahead position.
We place a 55gal drum under the wishbone arms. Took off the rear wishbone support, took out the 4 bolts in front, and rolled the front end out of the way; being carefull not to snag any lines.
Once the front end was clear, it was real easy to get at the bolts for the pan; so engine removal shouldnt be that much more work.
His power steering was leaking a little where the cylinder is bolted to the bolster.
We unbolted the cylinder and tried getting the piston rod un-pinned from the rack, but as the pin wouldn't budge, we cleaned everything off real well, and used Permatex #2 on the flange. (There wasn't any o'ring in there)
This would go alot easier with 2 people. Just take your time and be careful.
Good luck, Gatz
Haven't posted pix for a while....so will see how this goes.
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Posted By: Gatz in NE
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2010 at 4:58pm
Trying a different sized pic (104kb)... this shows the Power Steering cylinder unbolted from the bolster. Just cleaned everything up good and used Permatex #2 to seal it.
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Posted By: Gatz in NE
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2010 at 5:03pm
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Coupla notes..
Pictures are a bit out of sequence, but you should get the idea.
It's important to tie the bolster to the front axle...otherwise, it may come off the pivot pin underneath and fall off.
Note the PS lines that are loosened and the fittings removed from the bolster.
Also notice that the far wheel (right side) is askew. Although it wasn't a big deal, that's what'll happen if you don't clamp or fasten the tie-rods to the axle to keep them from turning.
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Posted By: BobHnwO
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2010 at 5:32pm
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What Gatz said.
------------- Why do today what you can put off til tomorrow. |
Posted By: paulinkansas
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2010 at 6:38pm
| You also need to remove the steering linkage from down where your left foot is to the coupling where the power steering is underneath the alternator. Mine was held in place by roll pins. Had to heat them up with a torch and then quench them with some water from the inside in order to pound them out. |
Posted By: jmfonzy
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2010 at 9:03pm
| Great! I will do that. I think in order to keep the wheels going straight I can use 4X4 posts secured to the floor on either side of both wheels to ensure that they move forward straight ahead. The wedges look very critical so there is no horizontal movement. Was it very difficult to get the steering loose? I guess just beating the U Joint loose is what needs to happen? I've never done that before, but I've got a shop manual coming soon maybe it will have some additonal good tips in there. |
Posted By: Gatz in NE
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2010 at 10:11pm
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We didnt need to take the steering shaft out when removing the oil pan, however , removing the engine might require that....I can't say for sure. Try it without, you could always do it if you had to.
When the front end is pulled forward, the end of the shaft that lays horizontal inside the rail disengages from the round coupling shown in the last pic.
Make note of where the steering wheel and shaft are before doing this, so that it'll be in the right position when re-assembled.
Note items 32 & 34 .........
 |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2010 at 5:47am
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This is the sort of post thread that needs to be preserved somehow in a very findable way - lots of good advice and useful pictures! ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: jmfonzy
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2011 at 5:19pm
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OK many moons later I have my D17 Series III tractor back together with the new motor in, new radiator, muffler, plugs, wires, filters, hoses, belts, cap, fuel filter, blah, blah blah! I have got the tractor cranking but it is not turning over! What's the problem? I put cylinder 1 at TDC on the compression stroke and then placed the distributer so that the rotor was aiming at cylinder 1. I wired the plugs in order 1, 2, 4, 3 (cylinder 1 I assumed was closest to the radiator and then I went towards the back end of the tractor in clockwise order). Once everything was in place I then checked to see if I had spark on cylinder 1 by removing the plug wire off of the spark plug and holding it about a 1/4 inch from the block while I cranked it. I saw a pretty strong arc. I then put the wire back and tried to crank it again. . . still nothing. I did a no no next . . . I put some gas into the carburator assuming it had none in it (which it did not). Then I tried to crank it again. I almost blew myself up! The backfire that happened was great and it made me think I was on some battlefied during the civil war days, but the engine did not crank. What am I missing??? Help!
Jon in Tennessee
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Posted By: boscoe
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2011 at 5:45pm
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needs to be timed it says how in manual i did it about 5-6 times before i figured it out for myself then once i got a manual it was easy , My D17 is also a 226 gas. find TDC on #1 compression stroke then point rotor on no 1 wire on cap , set points accordingly i think .16 gap check to make sure . once i got it running i turned distributor to fine tune, if it wouldnt start but tried i would also do this to advance and try again.this is how i did it , it worked for me , probably not by the book. if not getting fuel loosen plug on bottom of carb to see if gas is in carb , float could be stuck , gas line could be bad , or not sufficient gas in tank, take off bowl and turn on gas to see if coming out of tank . radiator to back is 1-2-3-4cyl thats right, ------------- 1959 D 17 gas , 1964 190 gas, 1965 190xt gas AC 4bottom slat plow, 6 row 30in #72 planter Im not getting bigger my cloths are just getting smaller. |
Posted By: jmfonzy
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2011 at 6:02pm
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Thanks! Now I have the I & T shop manual and it said to use .025 gap so that is what I used. I found TDC (when # 1 is at it's highest point on the compression stroke) by having my wife stand there with a flashlight pointed down the hole and one of her hairs in hand to check when the cylinder blew the hair out and was at it's highest point before going down. Then I pointed the rotor button directly at that cylinder. The cap only lines up with the rotor button between wires 1 & 3 (since the firing order is 1, 2, 4, 3. Do you think the cap needs to be aligned with the rotor button pointing directly at wire 1 and cylinder 1? I wonder if the starter is not spinning fast enough to let the motor fire up? The battery is weak. I boosted it with our Suburban and it spun faster, but still did not turn over. I am at a loss. I got another problem too. I cut the steerring shaft when I took out the motor and now I need to weld it back, but the darn thing won't budge! I drilled out the pin that holds it in place, but the shaft is stuck in the universal coupling. Any ideas on how to get that out of there?
Thanks!
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Posted By: paulinkansas
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2011 at 6:44pm
I came about this close >.< to cutting my steering shaft too. After I loosened the front end a few inches, the shaft came out. I know this bit of info doesn't help. But I'm not really sure about your problem that you describe. If you cut it to remove the front end, you need to reinstall the front end and then reconnect the shaft (weld it). Reverse the process you did when removing the engine.
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jmfonzy wrote:Posted By: acd21man
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2011 at 6:54pm
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where you from in TN i live here to lol ------------- 2 wd 45,2 D-17 diesel/gas 3 pt, 220,d21, 4020,2 4430s used daily http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCudh8Xz9_rZHhUC3YNozupw |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2011 at 7:46pm
| With the roll pin/solid pin removed from the horizontal shaft and the engine OFF, turn the steering wheel hard clear to one side or the other and spin the knuckle on the shaft. You might have to use some torch heat on the knuckle yoke, but it will let loose eventually. Recenter the front wheels after the fact and use plenty of penetrating oil on the knuckle/shaft connection. |
Posted By: jmfonzy
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2011 at 8:59pm
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I think I'll try to put some lockjaws on the shaft that needs to come out and then torch the universal coupling. Then I'll try to twist it off while the coupling is heat expanded. We'll see if this works. I though about trying to make an apparatus where I can "press" the shaft out of the coupling, there is probably a tool out there I am not aware of that does this, but I'll engineer me one since I don't know whagt it is if there is one.
On my new engine non-start problem I was talking to my brother and he seemed to think my plug wiring was off by one. I'll explain to you guys to see what you think. When I got TDC compression stroke for #1 (the cylinder closest to the radiator) I put the distributer in so that the rotor button was pointing directly at that cylinder. I then put the cap on the distributor. The rotor button (still pointing straight at the # 1 cylinder) was also aiming between two of the ports where the wires go on the cap. Because the distributor rotates clockwise, I put the wire to the plug in cylinder #1 in the port on the cap immidiately after where the rotor button was pointing. Is this wrong? Am I off by 1 wiring place? If I am, am I off 1 wiring place forward or backward?
Thanks,
Jon in Middle TN
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Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2011 at 9:19pm
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Mark on the distributor where number one plug wire is. Pull the distributor back up and rotate the rotor so it lines up with the number one position on the cap after it is installed. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: GregLawlerMinn
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2011 at 10:08pm
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You did right to find TDC. Rotor rotation is clockwise; firing order is 1-2-4-3; perhaps you set your plug wires in a counterclockwise rotation? Been there done that. ------------- What this country needs is more unemployed politicians-and lawyers. Currently have: 1 D14 and a D15S2. With new owners: 2Bs,9CAs,1WD,2 D12s,5D14s,3D15S2s, 2D17SIVs,D17D,1D19D;1 Unstyled WC |
Posted By: bobkyllo
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2011 at 10:21pm
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CTucker is correct. you will have to pull the distributor out and try and get it so that it points to number one. do not try and just loosen the distributor locking tab and adjust it that way. if you do you will have no adjustment for further fine tuning. i read where you said that the tractor dont turn over well. well do you have a 6 volt battery in this? if it is a 6 volt system and you put 12 volts to it. you very well could have wrecked some ignition parts.
as far as you having the cylinder to top dead center. are you sure it is on the compression stroke and not a intake or exhaust stroke.
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Posted By: Dave in il
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2011 at 10:31pm
| All D17s are 12 volt |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2011 at 7:37am
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I'm with Bob, make sure you are on the compression stroke. You may need to have the valve cover off to be sure. ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: Matt MN
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2011 at 7:42am
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Not All D17's are 12 volt. the first ones were 6 volt.
I believe you are out of time, follow what Charlie say's and set the rotor so it is at #1 on the CAP ------------- Unless your are the lead horse the scenery never changes!! |
Posted By: OrangePowerFranzen
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2011 at 4:07pm
| me and a friend had the same problem with a d-17 we just overhauled, our timing is right, the tractor runs good on idle but cuts out when we idle it fast. it drives good but when you put it into high gear it doesn't stay running just dies. it runs amazing idling put has no power, we think that the carb might be some of the problem but leaning tword the timing, can anyone help me |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2011 at 10:33pm
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OPFranzen, you might have an advance problem with your distributor??? Maybe the advance is frozen and doesn't move. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: jmfonzy
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2011 at 8:37pm
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Well I was have been so frustrated with the steering shaft issue and the non start issue that I took a break from looking at the tractor, but I also have been thinking about the problems. I think I'll pursue the TDC issue. There is a possibility I am on the exhaust stroke . . . I am going to make sure that I am on the compression stroke . . . I think that is my problem. It should fire right up with everything I have done so far, but it does not. It has to be on the exhaust stroke and not the compression stroke. That's why it won't fire up.
With the steering coupling it won't budge! I tried everything and it is locked up tighter than Fort Knox. I'm scared to try twisting it out using the steering wheel any more. I don't want to break anything.
Maybe I'll see if someone can come out to the place and weld the cut shaft so I don't have to take it off and carry it to someone for welding.
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Posted By: jmfonzy
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2011 at 8:49pm
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Yeah I'd check that carb, make sure your fuel lines are clear too. On mine I had to clear out that fuel line with a wire hanger before the gas would flow through it. You might also take a look at the air cleaner filter to see if it needs replaced. That restored motor will want to breathe easily to run good.
May look too at the fuel sediment bowl screen to see if it needs replaced or cleaned too. I had to replace mine because the old one was like disintegrating. ------------- Jon |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2011 at 8:52pm
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Take number 1 plug out. Put your thumb over the spark plug hole. Turn the engine over till you feel pressure build up pushing on your thumb. Reach in the hole with a piece of copper wire and feel when the piston is coming near the top of the stroke. This is easier to do with a hand crank but you probably don't have that option. If all the plugs are out you should be able to turn it over with the fan blade. I think the setscrew on the front pulley will indicate where TDC is but I'm not sure on the 17 where it should be. Once you know it is on TDC and on the compression stroke, check that the rotor is pointing toward the number 1 plug wire. Light a fire in it. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: jmfonzy
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2011 at 9:05pm
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I'll try that tomorrow when I get home from work if it's not pouring rain. I feel like this is the issue that is making it not fire up. The bummer is that I will still need to take care of the steering shaft problem, but I'm going to get a buddy to come weld that cut shaft for me at the house.
Little by little this old Allis is going to be pretty sweet when it's all finished! I put a stainless steel magna flow racing exhaust on it. I'm ready to hear it rumble! With the overbore it should sound pretty sweet. And it no longer leaks a drop of fluid from anywhere! ------------- Jon |