Hd 20 needing a blower and shaft
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Category: Allis Chalmers
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=130611
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Topic: Hd 20 needing a blower and shaft
Posted By: Brent.eggers
Subject: Hd 20 needing a blower and shaft
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2016 at 4:01pm
Hd 20 help New to being able to use this site it has the 6 110 Detroit I'm in dire need of a blower & drive shaft
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Replies:
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2016 at 7:15pm
If the splines sheared check your drive flange on the gear train as well. These engines are fairly common and should be all over the US.
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Posted By: Brent.eggers
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2016 at 8:44pm
The gear in the engine that drives the blower and splines are good in fact it's a shame that the shaft had to break because it's splines are very good. I have called all over I live in Kansas and I'm not really finding any six 110 engines. There is a guy in Nebraska That claims he has four but he never goes out and looks at them or tells me any prices I have called everyone even I think it's www.Williams .com and several other Detroit engine parts selling places. No luck . There's a guy Las Vegas that has a whole engine for 3500 bucks but won't sell just parts I have been on Google for like 2 weeks trying to find out if anyone has these engines. I have probably called 50 people with other connections And no luck. The six 110 is bigger than I 671 I wonder if the blower off of a 671 would actually work they seem to be the same size Of course I haven't torn into one and see if they pump more volume. I do know the shaft us longer on the six 110 versus the 671. I'm wondering if anyone knows where a HD 20 might be setting that might have a good blower and shaft on it that's junk. They use the six 110s in my research in Jen sets, some sort a train stuff, euclid's, marine , and one guy said to pull airplanes around on ships. I have talked to many old timers that know exactly what is six 110 is. But nobody knows where any are. They were made like from 1945 to 53 or something. The 671 Was Way Way way more common. I'm hoping someone on Hear can help locate one. I'm in Allis guru I have several Allis tractors Ect this old girl has till blade and hydraulic lift and 65 or 70% undercarriage I saved it from the Scrap I have a parts machine but It has been tras planted to a 671 in it. Any help from you guys would be a blessing.
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Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2016 at 9:06pm
6-110's were used in oil fields.Neighbor had one on a pump for his rig.Can't believe you can't buy new from DDA
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Posted By: Brent.eggers
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2016 at 10:31am
I googled dda Detriot diesel Allison I will call tomarrow. Somehow their was a different site & they had loads of boats I will call them as well. I just wish I could call someone & they have what I need but I'm still not shure 6 110 is rare as Hins teeth from what I have found
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Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2016 at 11:35am
The Detroit Diesel Series 110 is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-stroke_cycle" rel="nofollow - two-stroke cycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine" rel="nofollow - Diesel engine series, available in six-cylinder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight_engine" rel="nofollow - inline configuration (in keeping with the standard Detroit Diesel practice at the time, engines were referred to using a concatenation of the number of cylinders and the displacement, so this was a model 6-110). It was introduced as the second mass-market product of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Diesel" rel="nofollow - Detroit Diesel Engine Division of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Corporation" rel="nofollow - General Motors in 1945. The 6-110 series engines utilize https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniflow_scavenging" rel="nofollow - uniflow scavenging , where a blower mounted to the exterior of the engine provides intake air through cored passages in the engine block and ports in the cylinder walls at slightly greater than atmospheric pressure. The engine exhausts through push-rod operated poppet valves in the cylinder head, with either two or four valves per cylinder. Unit fuel injection is employed, one injector per cylinder, with no high fuel pressure outside of the injector body. The injectors are cycled from the same camshaft responsible for opening the exhaust valves. As a two stroke cycle Diesel engine cannot naturally aspirate, or draw in its own intake air, the blower is necessary to provide air in an amount sufficient both for scavenging of exhaust gasses from the cylinder and to support combustion. Initial versions of the 6-110 engine used a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifugal_type_supercharger" rel="nofollow - centrifugal-type supercharger . This was very practical for fixed-speed applications such as marine or generator service, but proved a failure in automotive applications. "The engine was developed on the dyno and was never operated above rated RPM. The first application was in Euclid mining trucks, where the driver's income depends on how fast he drives the empty truck back down into the pit. The centrifugal blower ran about 10 times engine speed. Exceeding that RPM was fatal, and in a truck a single missed downshift could mean a failed engine." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Diesel_110#cite_note-1" rel="nofollow - [1] For that reason a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roots_type_supercharger" rel="nofollow - Roots type blower was made available as an option after about 1952. Later high performance versions were available with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocharge" rel="nofollow - turbochargers . The initial Series 71 engines from Detroit Diesel were produced in 1-, 2-, 3-, 4- and 6-cylinder versions. The most powerful version, the 6-71, displaced 426 cubic inches and produced 170 hp (127 kW) at 1800 rpm. While these engines with their low cost and relatively light weight were highly successful, there was also great demand for higher horsepower, especially for non-highway applications such as power generation and construction equipment. Since inline engines of more than 6 cylinders tend to have substantial technical problems, and since GM was not to perfect V-block engine technology for another decade, they took two divergent approaches to achieving higher horsepower. One was to couple together multiple 6-71 engines in twin (side-by-side), tandem (fore-and-aft) and the incredible Quad (four 6-71s all driving a single shaft). While these did produce high horsepower and even added some redundancy, they were mechanically complex and relatively expensive. The alternative approach was to design a new engine and increase the displacement from the existing 71 cubic inches to 110 cubic inches, or roughly a 50% increase. This resulted in the model 6-110, with 660 cubic inches total displacement, that produced a continuous rating of 275 hp (205 kW) at 1800 rpm. While the basic engine components (block, crankshaft, pistons, etc.) were all new, many of the additional components (injectors, governors, accessories, marine gears) were simply shared with the Series 71 engines. Since the 6-110 was designed from the outset for heavy-duty high-horsepower applications, it was never produced in a four-cylinder version (that would have displaced 440 cubic inches, very close to the 426 ci displaced by the 6-71). The introduction of the V-71 series in 1957 effectively doomed the 6-110, as both the 8-71 (568 cubic inch displacement) and 12-71 (852 cubic inch displacement) offered higher horsepower in a more compact form factor. However the high torque and great reliability of the 6-110 was still valued for heavy-duty applications. The Series 110 was last produced in 1965, after which the manufacturing rights were purchased by the http://www.wwwilliams.com/distribution_dd.cfm" rel="nofollow - W. W. Williams Distribution Company , which continues to provide parts for these engines.
------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Posted By: Brent.eggers
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2016 at 1:54pm
That's a nice bit of info Coke. I learned a tad more than I had already nown about them. I have thought about a 671 or a v8 transplant I have no idea what all couplings I would ever to get other engines hooked to the tork / clutch. Drive. Honestly I'd like to stay stock. I'm shure from experience put much more engine in it & then I would run cooling probs & power train. That sound dramatic to me like I say the parts hd 20 has a 6-71 But has different mounts & hydraulic pump is hooked up differantly I did start the 6-71 the other day tho had to losenn the ol rack up.
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Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2016 at 2:14pm
Not sure exactly what all you need. We do have 2 HD 20 carcasses that have blowers on them. Not sure if they would even be worth the effort as long as they've been sitting. If you can't find anything we could get into one of these to see what it looks like.
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Posted By: Brent.eggers
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2016 at 4:56pm
Wow you mad my day I can almost promise you I could get one to work. Give me a call my names Brent 620 7782905
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Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2016 at 8:19pm
brent there was an HD20 for sale about a year ago near the joplin area. Are you the one who got it?
------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Posted By: Brent.eggers
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2016 at 8:51pm
No a guy that was a real hillbilly from Arkansas moved up hear. He had brough these up from his homeland. Then he moved from parsons to Coffeyville Any ways I bought the 80 acres from him a year ago. He had used the dozer in the last 6 months. I buy every Allis I own broken down it seems. He was going to hauler to the scrap soi shelled out the cash. I'm an Ac guru thru & through my other biggest. Pride is a D 21 series 2saved her from scrap $1500 got that tractor. I bail hay with it now I'm 28 & have to own any Allis especially if it's diesel. I kinda got side tracked their. I just love old Stuff & I get a Kik out of making people that think I can't make some old iron work & run again.
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Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2016 at 10:46am
Ok, I visited whit Brent and he forwarded some pictures that I could post up for him, yes his blower has a problem.
He's going to keep looking around. We'll try to look into one of our blowers maybe next week. This tractor could be a real nice specimen if he can get it going again. I can't tell if the hydraulics are one of the original after market manufacturers or not as in Garwood or Carco, but it looks like it worked. He also has this parts tractor of sorts. iIt was a pusher tractor it appears. It's an HD 20 also. But it does appear that some one returned it to a 671 engine. I'm sure Brent can answer questions or ask with these pictures now.
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Posted By: Brent.eggers
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2016 at 9:11pm
Posted By: dpower
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2016 at 9:52pm
my uncle was parts manager for over 30 years at Fehrs Allis Chalmers Equipment(Road Builders) in Omaha NE. He also parted out different machines over the years. You want his number to see if he would have parts or know some close in Nebraska??
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Posted By: Brent.eggers
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2016 at 6:50am
Shure would ever hurts to call might learn something too.
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Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2016 at 7:50am
DID YOU TRY GENERAL GEAR IN IDAHO?
------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Posted By: Brent.eggers
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2016 at 9:35am
I just called them they couldn't even direct me to anyone
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Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2016 at 9:53am
http://www.scharfco.com/gm6110.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.scharfco.com/gm6110.htm
------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Posted By: Brent.eggers
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2016 at 10:33am
I called them to a few weeks ago their site showed they have parts & such but the main man said its newer stuff & doesn't fit. I was like ok so why do you advertise. U have 6 110 parts. Anyways I they didn't help any. Their web site got me excited just for a let down.
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Posted By: Brent.eggers
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2016 at 10:37am
Still no real news the guy that had 4 6 110 engines turns out two are 671s. The other twwoo might be 6 110 but way shorter valve covers blower looks differant so I'm. Still hoping & praying evever night that Ac Mel can save. The day or someone can help.
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Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2016 at 9:32pm
I would think a good machine shop could build one and get it heat treated too
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Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2016 at 1:40am
Wonder if Brents second crawler isn't an HD19, the had those 6-71 in them... And I do not know where theres a 6-110 either... seen a few sold over the years... probably long gone to scrap eons ago now.
------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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Posted By: Brent.eggers
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2016 at 6:44am
I talked to an 80 year old fella last night in Nebraska. Named Bob Witzel. He seemed very sharp. He said he thinks he has a good blower & shaft said he would get back with me today gonna keep my fingers crossed I wonder if someone had a hd-19. & a 20 & cross bred them I have most of the stuf I think I could slide it back together enough to play & save I need a u joint cap or u joint & theiers a berring out in the front of the I think it's the transmission. Think I will try putting it together this winter. I'm shure il be on hear then.
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Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2016 at 7:25am
good news. keep us posted
------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Posted By: Brent.eggers
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2016 at 7:45am
Oh I darn shure will I'm shure il be needing something. This site is awesome too
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Posted By: TramwayGuy
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2016 at 6:59pm
I am pretty sure that the shaft was made so as to break to prevent worse damage to the gear train.
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Posted By: dpower
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2016 at 9:40pm
Not only did Bob work at an AC dealer he and his friend started a business redoing those GM motors that were on Doffin Grinder mixers mounted on trucks so hopefully he does have the parts for you.
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Posted By: Brent.eggers
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2016 at 6:26am
I'm pretty excited to meet Bob & I'm shure he will teach me something I never new. I'm just afraid il get their & want to buy moreAllis stuff than I really need lol. I'm going to temp to meet up saterday to see what he's got.
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Posted By: Brent.eggers
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2016 at 3:56pm
Ok so I'm on my way home from Nebraska i a couple blower options so I think I have that covered but I will need a blower drive shaft Ac. Mel
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Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2016 at 9:00pm
Brent, Copy that,did you get any blower pictures from Nebraska? to post up? I'll plan on getting one apart to see. We'll talk again.
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Posted By: Brent.eggers
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2016 at 7:39am
I have 3 I think two are rebuilt. I'm thinking one rebuilt one will fit right on. The other rebuilt one takes as a guess a 12 1/2 inch shaft verses the what I would call a 14 inch shaft that is stock the other blower is absolutely used & im thinking it may have need some attention. Bob was an assume man he gave me a parts book for the 20 & a hd 19 operators manual. He also gave me a Euclid 6-110 book maintenance manual. He is a great fellow he had some some parts I wish I had but some one else may need them worse than me. I tried calling u Mel it wasn't going. Through yesterday I will take some pics today. Mel when u take that shaft out I need those little clips that hold the shat from moveing back & forth I lost one & the other one I put up lost its self they shure are excape artists in the grass
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Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2016 at 9:44am
Ok, we dug into our HD20 carcasses and got a good blower shaft and locking clip to send out to AC Guru Brent. Put it in mail this morning. So we'll need to hold his feet to the fire to get some HD 20 action pictures
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Posted By: Brent.eggers
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 6:56am
I feel like a kid waiting on ol Saint Nick to bring me a bulldozer down the chimney. Lol of coarse it will be this blower shaft
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Posted By: Brent.eggers
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 7:02am
I got one of the 3 blowers on & it's a old newly rebuilt one & the shaft Ac Mel sent seems like it's going to work. I'm currently waiting on a good 50 degre out day to try & fire her up I'm thinking it might be best. I'm not shure. How long it will take for that blower to get oil from the pump? Wonder if I should pressure lub the whole thing first
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Posted By: ACjack
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 8:08am
Definitely pressure lube the engine before trying to fire it up.
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Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 1:25pm
Any way or form to get oil on the engine before turning it over would be a great idea. We used to use a old small air tank off a freight liner, capped or plugged everything we did not need, sent at least three quarts into the main rifling on big engines just to get a head start. Any small air tank, even a pressure bubble from a crap shop like Harbor Freight will work, just have to fill slowly thru whatever opening you can find, add a nylon tube(like air brake line) and fittings to the engine.
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Posted By: Brent.eggers
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 7:14am
The motor has ran in the last 6 or so mothers by he previous owner it's mainly the blower I would like lubed. Before I start it I think I'm thinking they get oil from not only the supply line but the drive line side as well I'm guessing is more of a splashing system all I no is the blower is rebuilt but like 40 years old rebuilt. So it's basically dry. I think once I go to start it it has a drain back so I'm shure I will have to crank it a bit. I have an old piston hand pump that's old I pop free old Rosa master Injection pump plungers free with & pressure lube with so I won't have to use air over liquid. I guess I'm more conserned with the volume it might take to get it lubed if I just tap in to the block it may just go to the main or rods & never get to the blower. Wonder if cranking it. With the air kills shut down until I belive it is lubed would work best
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Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 9:21am
coulda oiled before you put it on...doubt you hurt anything by just firing up and make oil pressure
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Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 1:37pm
Cranking it with in no fuel would be better than the air flaps closed as the blower seals if they should leak could supply enough fuel to make it run as well will be enough air in the engine to make it start.
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Posted By: Brent.eggers
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 5:58pm
All this is true & yes I some how pulled a dumb dumb & didn't think of splashing oil let alone even a little wd40 on any of it. But don't plan on pulling that heavy sucker back off to do it
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Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2016 at 11:29am
If are access plugs/covers on the end covers get them off and pour/spray/oil can a load of oil into them, better than zip.
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Posted By: rickv57
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2017 at 8:46am
I sure could use some parts can somebody hook me up with his fellow thanks
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Posted By: rickv57
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2017 at 10:29am
Could you give me a call on your HD 20 parts 816 615 3699 thanks Rick
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