Problem w/Spout motor/620-FIXED!
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Garden Tractors
Forum Description: A great place to discuss the Simplicity and Allis Chalmers Garden Models
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=130351
Printed Date: 27 Sep 2024 at 10:25am
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Topic: Problem w/Spout motor/620-FIXED!
Posted By: macvette
Subject: Problem w/Spout motor/620-FIXED!
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 1:32pm
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Now that I have the toggle switch wired, I have a problem with the spout motor. All new wire up to connection with blower motor lead.
I started with a 10 amp fuse, kept blowing, went to 20 amp, kept blowing, went to a 25 amp in order for motor to run without blowing fuse. (Motor gets hot, wires get warm when using the 25 amp. fuse.)
Have put new female spade terminals on wires to motor, cleaned up the spade terminals on motor as best I could using emery cloth wrapped around a screwdriver. All connections appear good.
Took blower motor apart. Put 3 in 1 oil on bearings, cleaned up inside of motor, brushes look like they still have life in them.
Motor acts no different if mounted to gear on spout control, or running without any load.
Motor runs faster in one direction than the other.
I'm not really very electrical versed, but feel there is a problem somewhere.
Any ideas?
UPDATE =
Late Oct., put a different chute motor on from salvage yard - hooked it up with blower just sitting on the floor-worked PERFECTLY! NOW- 11/25/16- Mounted blower on tractor, (after mounting a NEW mini alternator that DOES NOT WORK) figured that if the buyer ever sends me a working alternator, at least I will have my "new to me" snowblower on already.
NOW - Chute motor doesn't work! Has 12 volt + power all the way to motor - on both sides of the toggle direction. Changed motor as I also purchased a new motor. Doesn't work. Ran a ground from motor itself to negative post on battery. Nothing!
I think I am cursed with this blower/chute/ mini-alternator project!
WHAT THE HECK AM I MISSING?
Thanks. Merle
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Replies:
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 4:46pm
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what is voltage of motor ? what type of connection between load and motor ? If it's a DC motor and low voltage - look for armature moving over inside field windings and dragging - a off center movement will cause drag and high amperage draw . Find this real often on starter motors after a couple years of use .
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Posted By: macvette
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 8:49am
12 volt with spade terminal connections. Believe it's like a GM windshield wiper motor.
Plastic gear between spiral gear on motor and blower chute control. No rust - turns freely.
No difference in motor performance whether it has load, or running free.
Thanks.
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Posted By: wiplowboy
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 4:10pm
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I just did one on sunstar. Try running a ground wire to tractor. Will try and call you later.
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Posted By: macvette
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 7:27pm
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Yep, ran the ground wire before got everything else wired up. Person that sold me the blower told me about running the ground wire with a disconnect direct to tractor, as he also said that is often a problem.
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Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2016 at 8:35pm
OK.. I'm cornfused.... EVERY permanent magnet DC motor I've ever come across does NOT need a 'ground' wire. You simply wire up to a DPDT switch to 'flip' the power going to the motor leads.
So can someone explain the 'ground wire' comments.
As to the heating up comments, yeesh.... 12 volts, 20+ amps is over 240 watts ! Think 4 - 60 watt light bulbs !! Yup a LOT of power,far more than needed to turn a spout, me thinks.... Anyone got part numbers so I can Goggle specs ??
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2016 at 8:08am
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When bench testing you need that ground.
Dusty
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917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express"
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Posted By: Toscani NE SD
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2016 at 9:18pm
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its actually a rear window motor from a 80's jeep wagoner,i bought a spare for mine and it matched up perfectly,still have it don't use blower.
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Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2016 at 6:18am
dusty ... why ?????
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Posted By: macvette
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2016 at 9:08am
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Thanks guys for the info. I finally broke down yesterday and ordered a window motor off eBay. Hopefully the end of the problem!
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Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2016 at 7:59am
Merle,
How did you make out with your spout motor delema?
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Posted By: macvette
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2016 at 9:17am
Great! Pulled a window motor from salvage yard Buick, Works perfectly. No more hot wires, or 25 amp fuse!
Now just waiting for a fellow website member to get a stubshaft built for me to mount a mini alternator, then I will be golden.
Thanks
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Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2016 at 12:21pm
Cool! What kinda Buick? Wagon or something? I'm gonna need one for mine to I think. Its not responding. Humming a little, but not responding. LOL! Did ya havta' make any alterations?
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Posted By: macvette
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2016 at 5:59pm
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Buick Regal, I believe. You can look on the "discount auto parts" site, and just look at the window motor that looks like the same mount that we have, and it will give you quite a number of years/make/model that this motor fits. It will be left front or left rear window motor. Just grab the pigtail from the switch to motor at the same time if you grab one out of a salvage yard. I checked with a local autoparts supplier to get the pigtail to motor wire if I got a new motor = $35.00! My $20.00 pull it myself used unit was a much better deal.
I did have to drill 2 new holes in mounting bracket (one hole matched) and cut 3 pieces of tubing 1/2" long to place between the motor and bracket as spacers.
Works great.
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Posted By: Toscani NE SD
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2016 at 7:37pm
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using a jeep regulator like I mentioned above, u don't need to modify or drill anything...isn't anyone listening?
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Posted By: macvette
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2016 at 10:43pm
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I didn't have access to a jeep motor at the time. Nothing that old in the salvage yard.
For the 20.00 it cost me, and the ability to drill 2 holes, I feel quite comfortable with my solution, and it works perfectly.
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Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2016 at 10:21am
Yup! We're listening. Its always nice to have another avenue to go up just in case the Jeep motor wasn't in reach. That just happen to be the case for Merle, so he found somethin' else that would work. Thank you for the info Doug! Its appreciated. For me, I don't have time to run in a bone yard, so it would actually be cheaper for me to purchase one off of e-bay or an auto parts store. The $35. bucks to me isn't bad. My time is worth more than that with what I have goin' on in my life.... LOL!
Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Posted By: TREVMAN
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2016 at 5:17pm
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Steve, I think it is $35 for the pigtail, not the motor which is not such a bargain. When I was looking 10 years ago, new motors were very pricey. There are many applications of the motor to look for used. I think I printed them out and may be in my 720 binder. I do remember off the top of my head, that it was many GM products power windows. I'll look and post, hope this helps, Trev.
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Posted By: macvette
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2016 at 6:28pm
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Yep, the pigtail to go to the motor was $35.00 from NAPA.
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Posted By: macvette
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2016 at 9:51pm
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Please see the update added on to bottom of the thread I started this with - still in trouble!
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Posted By: ac720nut
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2016 at 5:07am
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I bought new GM motor don't remember #'s but bolted right up and works fine was $75 new though
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Posted By: macvette
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2016 at 8:24am
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Mounted my new GM motor before I UPDATED this thread. Doesn't work either.
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Posted By: macvette
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2016 at 7:25pm
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GOT CHUTE MOTOR WORKING!!! So very happy! Now to get a mini alternator that works, and I will be golden! LOL!
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Posted By: Bird76Mojo
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2016 at 1:51am
So you're not going to tell us what the issue was?
GB :)
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Posted By: macvette
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2016 at 9:56am
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Absolutely no idea why it worked perfectly just sitting on the floor hooked up plus a ground wire from tractor to blower, but not when mounted on tractor.
When I pulled all my wires out of the loom, and went to rewire everything from the battery to toggle to blower, think I found the answer. I originally posted this problem on a number of the forums I belong to, and another member sent me a factory printed toggle wiring diagram he was sent when he got a new 2 wire motor, and that is what I used to wire. On the 26th, a forum member from another forum I was posting on sent me a printed diagram for the toggle wiring. GUESS WHAT - IT WAS DIFFERENT! Wired toggle according to the just received diagram, and it works perfectly!
Obviously, not all these little motors are wired the same!
No matter - I am still very happy with the final result! Hoooooooray!
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