Fiat Allis L10B
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=129450
Printed Date: 05 Oct 2024 at 2:00pm Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Fiat Allis L10B
Posted By: juan
Subject: Fiat Allis L10B
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 7:21am
Hello Friends Thanksyou very much . Well my problem is with the iinstalaccion of engine and converter assy in the tractor chassis But There are a problem, the converter housing is more larger that the pasage into the tractor body! My question is : Anybody have any prosess for the engine instalaccion WITH the converter? Or is nessesary remove the converter housing and instalate in the chassis and after put the engine ? Thanks Juan
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Replies:
Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 9:54pm
Juan
You need a copy of FL 10 - FL 10B crawler loader and 10 - 10B dozer Service manual
Print No 604.06.077 - English
Or more recent.
The section "Engine to remove" has as "Step 7 Disconnect the torque converter assembly as described on page 61". Which doesn't sound good.
To do this you have to remove the pedal support cross member and the pipe and pump works attached to the converter.
I've never done this on our dozer but you might be able to take out the whole dash panel at the front of the cockpit and get both engine and converter in that way?
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Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2016 at 9:59pm
The converter comes out the top without removing the engine first.
Also the manual has you remove the whole radiator assembly / nose cone - I forgot to mention that. Maybe that gives a bit more wriggle room?
I've just had a quick look at our dozer (which is a converter model) - limited as we have the engine side screens on. I took the front LHS floor plate off though. Looks like it ought to come out as a unit. I'd have to remove the blade cylinder hydraulic lines first at least as they're inside the frame.
The dozer section has you remove the whole dash panel to clear the works to get the master clutch out - you lay it back on the front of the seat. Doesn't specifically mention anything different for the ones with a converter.
Hope this helps
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Posted By: juan
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2016 at 3:45pm
Posted By: juan
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2016 at 4:01pm
My friend IAN i followed your indications and the engine in now in the chassis: After remove the cross bar and pedal ,Hydraulic pump there are suficient room for do the task. First down the converter to the botom of chasis linked a chain from the ceiling cab, later install the engine ,and use long screw for center the converter housing was shut by hand whit engine. Tight the screw around the bell housing adn the work is in happy end . Thanskyou for your assistance Greeting ( Juan From Montevideo Uruguay )
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Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2016 at 3:18am
Juan
Glad it worked.
Get one of those manuals if you can. They are about as good as I've met at not having too much for you to imagine between the lines.
Otherwise feel free to ask.
Might add - I've never seen a loader here in Oz and not too many of the dozers. But I was once told by a dealer "A FA 10 eh. Not many for sale and usually not for long"
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Posted By: juan
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2016 at 5:42pm
Dear Ian ,In Uruguay thereare many Fiat Allis and Allis chalmer agricultural machines But the Fl10b is from Brasil , with a engine Fiat and converter Twin disc, Moreover the post generation of machines Fiat Allis install Cummins due the poor durability and congenit trouble of Fiat engine . This one is a survivor because the people reemplase the engines Fiat by Mercedes , Cummins , MWM and Perkins I await than engine running OK and work good Greeting Juan
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Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2016 at 5:47pm
Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2016 at 6:22pm
Now I know how blank posts show up - that one above just happened!
Juan
What engine are you using then?
There was a small line of FD 20 A's with Cummins engines appeared used at one stage - I think out of South Korea.
A couple of FD 30's with Fiat engines in our area and a few FD 20s and 14s. Ours is the only 10 that I know of around here.
It helps to have a manual as Fiat and Alfa have a habit of doing things different - not necessarily crazy but different. Like the gear drive to the oil pumps in FD 20's as a local found out - eventually. As with fitting liners and their piston fits. And head gasket tensioning on Alfa 4 cylinder engines - when they say final tensioning cold they mean COLD.
I haven't heard of any problems with that CP3 engine in the 10 series. Ours got dusted not long before we got it so is relatively younger than the machine. Plenty of power and economical - about 10 litres per hour at full revs in any work.
I horrify people used to older US type machines by telling them that the easiest way to get to the fan and alternator is to take the radiator out. Which is true - but not that bad with the automotive style radiator. BTW you DO need the rubber seal around the outside of the radiator. I've made up a heavier front grille for stick protection. 2 pins and it swings open for blowing out, 2 more and it is off. And manufactured a set of engine guards factory style to keep most of the sticks from falling into the sump guard.
One thing I was warned. It uses a deckless block (seems an Italian engineering tradition as Alfa Romeo engines were the same), so a lot of the head gasket is in water. Over time the outer metal cracks, lets water into the matrix and rusts the fire rings from inside. Took about 15 years on ours. Was a matter of lifting the head, cleaning things up as needed and replacing the gasket. Naturally happened about as far from base as possible on this ranch.
Other than that no problems - fingers crossed.
Same CP3 engine was used in some NH tractors - as was the 4 cylinder version IIRC.
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Posted By: juan
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2016 at 6:16pm
Posted By: juan
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2016 at 7:11pm
Dear IAN,: the tractor engine is a CP3/100 Yes OK , is engine that good perfomance and economy i fuel ,but is problematic whit the linner system , upper part free Only support in the inferior block cavity . This presents a great area of head gasket into the water that rusted and ruined de Head gasket doing the water go into the engine . A time a go; a wheel loader Benati with a CP3 to beguin burn Head gasket . The linner are not steady and was lost the level with the blok I want repair te engine in the local machine shop But Our costumer. the owner of the Machine, buy a new Perkins 6.354 F4 and adapte this engine And The Fiat go to scrap , Here in my country was many Fiat Truck 130 , 140 To day find one is rare has a veteran of ww1! Yes is a good engine , But plenty of problem Linners ,Head Gasket and the long long screw block to head living into the water A realist condition for a problem Greeting Juan
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Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2016 at 5:30am
Juan
Thanks.
The other support is against the head so if your liner protrusion isn't enough heading to hell in a handbasket.
Again the manual takes you through liner protrusion and shimming to get it right. Even has rebore data for your liners and piston fit needed.
I think you'll find the other end of the head studs hold the main bearings. Must have been poor cooling system attention to get them that bad - or I've been lucky with previous owners. And by some of the scars - - .
Nothing wrong with a Perkins either.
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Posted By: juan
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2016 at 6:30pm
Posted By: juan
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2016 at 6:32pm
Posted By: juan
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2016 at 6:51pm
Dear Ian ,iam very gratefull for your attention Mi Life in the repair shop be came many years ago in my childress whit my father a old mechanic of agicultural machines My first contac whith a Allis Chalmer was a tractor model U gasoline engine Latter in my military life whith Allis Chalmer military Buldozer M1 GM 4.71 engine and HD 10. 6. 71 Exellent machines. The latter Allis Chalmer was a little farm tractor as a Farmall cub I dont remenber the model . The Fiat Allis the HD14 Cummins engine ( Brazil) .To day a old ( 68.) continue working now in any machines New Holland and Caterpillar This is my actual life around the american Iron Your trully Juan
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Posted By: Ian Beale
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2016 at 7:22pm
Juan
Thanks. Mechanicals is one of my hobbies (just as well on a ranch). The last big one was resurecting an AC 45 grader to useable (I didn't say restored!) condition.
One son was trained as a diesel man via the Cat system so I have back-up.
Out of interest - can you step us through what you had to adapt to get a Perkins in? I'm guessing you would have had to use the Fiat flywheel?
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Posted By: juan
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2016 at 8:02am
Hello! , The Benati Wheel loader has a flexible coupling for a converter to flywheel, and adapte the Perkins Flywheel turning a little the face of fly and making new drill holes to support the converter flexible plate The bell housing is a SAE form coincident whit a Perkins engine , The general perfomance this machine in the working area was superior to Fiat engine for my satifaccion and the my customer Mr Manuel . 2 )The flywheel is proper of the engine and NOT is recomendable the use in other engine ,because the fiat engine GO OUT complete I don use nothing . Only the radiator
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