D12 Engine Ideas
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=129297
Printed Date: 28 Aug 2025 at 11:43pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: D12 Engine Ideas
Posted By: Jeeper38
Subject: D12 Engine Ideas
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 6:55pm
| My D12 has been burning oil pretty bad ever since it was givin to me in 2009. It will oil foul no. 3 spark plug every few hours and looks like the blue bandit going across the field. I ran this tractor as a kid and it never had any issues. While I was away in the Army for 8 years it got left outside after being used one day and then sat out without any cover or rain cap for probably 5 years or so until I got it handed down to me. I'm wanting to fix the oil burning but do not want to do a full overhaul. I don't think it needs a full overhaul or even an in-frame. All four cylinders show about 150psi of compression and it sounds great until it fouls that plug and starts missing. Does anyone have any ideas as to what I may find when I pull the cylinder head? I figured it would need a sleeve set but since the compression looks what I think is pretty good I'm wondering if it could be something else. I'm going to mow my field with it one last time this week and then take it apart this week or next. Just looking for ideas. Thanks! |
Replies:
Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 7:07pm
|
Blue smoke is burnt oil for sure. It is pretty simple really. If you have it narrowed down to one cylinder. It is probably rings or the cylinder sleeve, could be valve guide but doubtful. If you pull the spark plug wire off on the bad cylinder does the smoke clear up? Might get by with rigs or a sleeve. If it were mine, I would do a complete rebuild. JMHO ------------- No greater gift than healthy grandkids! |
Posted By: Jeeper38
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 7:32pm
| Thanks for the reply and idea Tracy. I pulled No.3 wire and there was not even a hint of smoke at idle or revved up. If it needs a liner and piston kit I guess doing all 4 cylinders and rods and mains wouldn't be to bad. Any idea if these "TISCO" kits are any good. Was looking at them today on Yesterdays Tractors. Thanks |
Posted By: bradley6874
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 8:07pm
|
First off ty for your service to our great nation. Now I really believe you have I bad valve guide on #3 intake valve and here's why I say that. good compression on all 4 cylinders I find it hard to believe the compression rings are good and oil rings bad my thought is the intake valve was open when it set out and rusted when it started the rust created extra clearance lol take the head off have it redone put it on worst thing you do is waste a head gasket maybe you get lucky ------------- You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 8:17pm
| I would go with the valve issue as well. I think if you broke a ring or had a scored cylinder you would see low compression in that cylinder. I am not a fan of doing upper end work without doing the lower end but if you have good compression and the oil flow and pressure is good then I think I would start with the head. |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 8:19pm
| To me the second step would be to include new bearing I get nervous about damaging the crankshaft with bad bearings. I say that because they don't make the crankshaft like the cylinders and rings. Just my two cents. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 8:33pm
| No 2 and 3 cyls are gonna be where rainwater gets into, if it was left outside,(depends on which valve was open, and slope tractor was sitting at, when outside) I'd pull the head, and take it to a machine shop, and have the valves done, and a pressure check, because its there. If the head work don't cure it, time to start looking at rings... |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 8:39pm
|
Hey Jeeper,,,some food for thought,,,,since the oil rings do nothing for the compression,,,,it IS very possible that the OIL RINGS on that cylinder are still froze in the piston lands from setting all that time. It just seems a shame to replace all the other rings and bearings when you may not need to,,,,,, The compression readings you are getting on all the cylinders is a dang good indication of "compression rings" in great shape,,,Just my .02 and Hope this helps you,,,,  |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 4:59am
| Joe, thanks for the reminder. Jeeper, drop a quart of ATF in the oil, next time you get a quart low. It de-sludges and unsticks things... |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 5:01am
|
Run Seafoam in the Oil for a while. That stuff does wonders for stuck engine items like rings. ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: wfmurray
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 5:12am
| Put a can marvel mystry oil in and run it may be a stuck ring. Nothing to loose. |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 6:18am
|
Marvel mystery oil, Seafoam and several others like Z-max would be some to try. Gumed up oil rings are the first to fail when setting for an extended time. I have had good luck with Seafoam and Z-max. I have not tried the others but they probly would work also. One thing about them all is that you have to work the engine many hours not minutes. It takes time with heat and pressure to slowly dissolve the gummed up oil holding the rings from expanding. My worst problem with oil fouled plug with my Farmall C took over three years before it quit fouling a plug and stop smoking while working. Longer for it to stop smoking on start upon start up. I did see it getting longer between a fouled plug the first summer using it to keep a field disked for weed control. Your tractor sounds a lot like my Farmall C.
|
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 6:24am
| At one time I had an example of the stuck oil ring with the compression rings free years back out in the shed. Finding it to take a picture probly will not happen. I am sure I never tossed it but I wouldn't know where to look anymore. Boxes and piles of old parts packed in the shed like the hoarder pictures you see on TV. |
Posted By: Jeeper38
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 6:41am
| Thanks for all the ideas everyone. I plan to do my mowing tonight and take my front blade and brushhog off, clean it good, and teardown very soon. Definitly not gonna go ordering parts until it's apart. Anybody have any good shops around the North Kansas City area to take the cylinder head to? If its a problem with the Valve guides will it be visible to the naked eye? We send most of our cylinder heads at work to Roadbuilders but not to confident that they'll want to work on something this old. Thanks! |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 8:12am
|
I used this shop years ago and didn't have trouble with their work. Bob's Automotive Machine Shop Auto Machine Shop Address: 1207 Swift St, North Kansas City, MO 64116 Phone:(816) 421-7656 ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 9:05am
|
If its a problem with the Valve guides will it be visible to the naked eye? Hey Jeeper,,( I like thet handle,,) I doubt you will be able to see the problem if it is a valve/guide issue,,,as due to the dis-similar metals, the valve guide is the sacrificial item in this case. If there is excess valve to guide wear, you can wiggle the valve in the guide, but only real way is to micrometer measure ID and OD to be sure. I think you got stuck oil rings on that piston,,,,(fingers crossed) |
Posted By: bradley6874
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 9:39am
|
If you pull the manifold off can you see the valve stem from the manifold port for cylinder number 3 if that's what's leaking you probably will have build up on the valve itself correct ------------- You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul |
Posted By: Jeeper38
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 9:08pm
|
Got my mowing done and pulled off my front blade and mower tonight. Degreased it a little and pulled it in the shop. Hope to get to pulling it apart pretty soon. Maybe next week at the latest. On a side note... I discovered that I have a hornets next in the edge of my field about 100 yards from my house. Gonna have to deal with them when it gets cold enough to keep them from moving much. Fortunately it was a cool night or they may have been after me. I was pretty close before seeing them.     |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 9:13pm
| That last photo gives me the willies.... my fab way to deal with them is chemical warfare spray right at the opening early in the morning or about dusk when they stop dropping out the bottom work you way up the nest with spray I typically keep working around and up. Had a few yellow jacket nests at my old home. |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 9:15pm
|
Wasp and hornet spray kills them fast. Gerald J. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 4:54am
| One can of spray, in each hand, and hose them... |
Posted By: bradley6874
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 5:28am
|
Don't kill them this late let them die off then cut it out put it in a garbage bag and take it to a school some kids will never see one of them in real life ------------- You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 5:37am
|
EEEeeeeeeeeeekk,,,,I'm like ole Dan says,,,you say hornets and I'm outa here,,,!!!! We don't have hornets 'round here,,but I learn't bout them bad boys on one trip to North Dakota,,,, My In-laws had a TV rotator on top of house that had stuck and would not turn,,,so Ole Joe offers to go up and fix it,,,Me and my wife's brother are pushing and pullin on the antenna and why we didn't notice em,I have no idea,,,,but when HE DID,,it was too late,,He SCREAMED,,,Hornets,,RUN,,!!! It was too late,,one of them stung me on the back and I RAN,,,right off the roof,,, never mind the dang ladder,,!!!It wasn't that far to the ground as one of them stung him when he landed and stood there,,!! That sting hurt so bad and it festered to where the meat kinda ate away and left bout a nickle size hole and I finally went to the ER and they gave me a shot of something,,,,That sob hurt for a LONG time,,,,,,I went up on roof after dark,,,and treated them to a half quart of premium gasoline,,,they was all daid in the mornin,,,,,, |
Posted By: Jeeper38
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 6:57am
| I kinda like bradleys idea. I might wait for them to die this winter and then pull it down and keep it. At what point are they dead for sure? |
Posted By: corbinstein
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 7:01am
| don't think I would trust em to be dead even with icicles hanging from em...... |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 7:01am
| After you spray them. Hives don't just die every winter they do die from time to time but I think that is when the queen dies. Wasps slow down in the cold but the hive insulates them that is how they winter over. As a kid we would wait till after it was near zero degrees then put them on a brush pile and burn the hive. They would fly away and freeze as the hive warmed up. And man where they pissed about you burning their home. |
Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 11:00am
|
Garbage bag and a can of ether will do them in. Should be able to save the nest for display. HTH Tracy
------------- No greater gift than healthy grandkids! |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 5:51pm
| They brought one into the Sunday school building one fall, when I was a kid. Bastards started hatching out, first warm day, in spring... |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 6:02pm
| I didn't know you went to Sunday school with Shameless. |
Posted By: corbinstein
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 7:30am
| I'll bet you were the one that brought the squirrel into church! |
Posted By: shameless (ne)
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 7:43am
| whew...i'd say....duct tape the hole shut, pull the nest down, box it up and ship it to Hillery! put yer mayors return address on the box. |
Posted By: shameless (ne)
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 7:44am
| Dave....I didn't see you at church either! |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 7:45am
| Put trumps home address on the box either way you can't go wrong.... |
Posted By: corbinstein
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 12:05pm
| I like that 2 birds, one nest! |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 5:07pm
|
Did I hear a request?
[TUBE]http://youtu.be/EfLXPWKP72o[/TUBE]
|
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2016 at 9:38pm
| Jeepers, sorry I couldn't get on here sooner, but the answer to the fouling plug is chain saw plugs. They're made to run in oil. One that fits a XL923 should work perfect. If you have a automotive engine that if you just barely touch the foot feed it's flooded, same thing, and will fire right up. |
Posted By: Jeeper38
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 7:04pm
|
Didn't get into my D12 as soon as planned but I got in to it a little tonight and am wondering if I may have found the culprit already. This doesn't look right to me and its the only one like this. It also is on the #3 cylinder. 
|
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 7:34pm
| I'm one of those kids that's never seen a hornet's nest like that. I've seen the little flat waffle/pancake looking ones, but that's it. |