Off topic why don't farmers strike in 2017
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Topic: Off topic why don't farmers strike in 2017
Posted By: acben20
Subject: Off topic why don't farmers strike in 2017
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2016 at 10:24pm
| I know this is not the place but I would like to see what others think.. I farm our family farm and can't believe that in this age corn prices are this low.. I think farmers should strike next year why plant another crop for some else to make money off.. It's sad when every one in the world needs a farmer three times a day but he can't even afford to feed him self.... Just venting sorry.. |
Replies:
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2016 at 10:26pm
Don't be sorry. I feel the same way you do. I guess we're having the same problem they had in the late 1920's/30's. Prices get low, what do you do? Just plant more! Simple as that, right? Well, for a few guys it might work, but if everyone does it, you get more supply than there is demand, and prices go even further down. Keep this going for a few years, and all over the world, and there's simply nothing you can do about it, I don't think.
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acben20 wrote:Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2016 at 10:29pm
| After nearly 7 years of great profits and now you want to strike ??? really ??? |
Posted By: AC7060IL
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2016 at 10:48pm
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I remember 2012. The drought that year yielded 15-60 bushels/acre for corn on some farms. Some lucky souls received a late summer hurricane leftover rain, so their soybeans might have yielded 55 bushels/acre. |
Posted By: dpower
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2016 at 11:00pm
| no small farmers are left in our area. All big guys farming 4,000 acres or more. Neighbors use to help each other now they stab each other in the back for ground. Sad deal but maybe some of these low prices will get to these big boys that have become too greedy. |
Posted By: AC Orange 1
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2016 at 11:27pm
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AMEN dpower!
------------- 1937 (AC WC), 1952 (AC WD), 1957 (AC D17 SERIES 1), 1964 (AC D17 SERIES IV WITH FACTORY 3PT), 1970 (AC ONE-NINETY XT SERIES III), 1971 (AC ONE-EIGHTY) |
Posted By: AC Orange 1
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2016 at 11:30pm
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DrAllis, I couldn't agree more!
------------- 1937 (AC WC), 1952 (AC WD), 1957 (AC D17 SERIES 1), 1964 (AC D17 SERIES IV WITH FACTORY 3PT), 1970 (AC ONE-NINETY XT SERIES III), 1971 (AC ONE-EIGHTY) |
Posted By: ILGLEANER
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2016 at 11:49pm
Great profits ? Just because commodity prices are high, doesn't mean there are great profits. Inputs, or seed, fertilizer,chemicals, parts, machinery, land, rent. Have all went up just as much as the commodity prices. I now spend nearly 4 times as much as me and my dad did, 10 years ago when he was still farming. What we put out for 120,000 ten years ago, now is half a million. It hasn't been all profit over the last 10 years. I ain't complaining, but we have inputs of 5.00 corn, and it's 3.00. You can lose more in 2 years, then you made in the last 10. With the inputs today. 2012 and 2015 were complete wipeouts here. 2012 being worse then last year. IG ------------- Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated. |
Posted By: shameless (ne)
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2016 at 11:59pm
| who are you going to strike against? Cargill? Monsanto? Pioneer? the govt? China? the small farmers can't take that hit, some of the big ones can, that was proved in the '70's, get some livestock, and feed out some of your grain to them. that will will create competition to the big meat producers and the grain companies, and will feed your families! one idea: plant enough to feed out some livestock, and enough to pay the taxes, and enough to pay for the expenses, and let some of the ground go fallow. give you a chance to control a years worth of weeds without chemicals. good for the pocket, good for the earth. I've done that in some problem areas and it worked very well. and if you do, let it be known that you are leaving some fields empty for the year and be sure to have that land visible from the road! it really doesn't hafta be much, just enough for people to talk, or the news media to get ahold of! |
Posted By: VAfarmboy
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 1:56am
It already is! I know of at least three of the big guys around here who got locked into long term leases for the inflated prices they offered the landowners to take the ground away from other farmers a few years back. When prices went down they figured out that they couldn't make any money farming if they were paying that much for ground so they sold out and broke the leases. All three of them were in their late 50s or early 60s so I guess they just decided to retire early. |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 3:24am
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Strike, acben20? Who are you going to strike against? Your local elevator? The government? The government may be able to set price guarantees, but it will do so with acreage allocations. The 'fix' is for all farmers to cut back production by x%. Doing so will drive the small farmers out of business. Like most other things in our world today, there is no easy fix. When prices are good everyone gets into the business. In the 1960s the NFO tried something similar to what you are proposing. It failed miserably. |
Posted By: VAfarmboy
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 4:08am
The Feds tried to cut production with the Soil Bank in the late 50s due to the rapid mechanization of agriculture after WWII that resulted in millions of acres of land that once grew hay to feed millions of draft animals being plowed up and planted in crops causing commodity prices to tank. When prices went back up in the early 1970s it was all plowed out and everyone was farming fence-row to fence-row and the feds were even subsidizing drainage tile to put swampland into production. Then when grain prices tanked again and they tried to stem the farm crisis of the 1980s with the CRP but when commodity prices went back up in the 2000s many CRP contracts were not renewed when they expired because people could make money farming it again. |
Posted By: Dgrader
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 5:15am
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It's a cycle, like mother nature. I've seen it 3 times in the last 40 years. When times are good a lot of farmers spend money like there's no tomorrow. Don't make anymore ground ya know. Banks getinto the act too. Lending money like it's an endless supply. Until the bottom drops out like it has now. They start looking at goin after guys that have some equity to cover their butt. The key to this is don't get too high when times are good and don't get too low when times are bad. Main problem right now is inputs are way too high. When grain prices are low ya gotta cut expenses as much as you can. I remember when NFO was a big thing. Unite all farmers together for better grain prices and input costs. Was a good deal if all farmers went along but that couldn't happen. Ya got a few of em that would go against it to try to cut a big deal. It's human nature. Besides I've never seen a group of farmers tottally agree on anything. Ya always got 1 that thinks he's a little smarter than the rest of em. ------------- Ya cain't fix stupid. |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 6:04am
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And don't forget the dairy herd buyout to get rid of the small fellows too.... Greed drove the big fellows bigger... and drove those that couldn't get enough down where they were to up here... and those fellows had a huge learning curve. shorter, much shorter growing season, and many bushals less... and less profit in their pocket and higher expenses... The one fellow after three years said he should have looked harder for more land around his area. LOL three big farmers up here also have cows and run their crop thru them, two semi loads of milk a day from one of the farms... and he can't get anybigger so he's starting up another... When is big BIG enough? I use to look at how so many made a living off of 25 cows, then it got to 40 then 60 and 100 then 200 500 and a thousand .... then the mega milk lots out in california, what happened... Greed underlining it all. Another thing that was happening in the 60's and 70's was a government involvement in a "CHEAP FOOD policy" and look at Earl Butz back then... Ag Secretary ... and the universitys helping sell that cheapfood mantras... They were screaming GET BIGGER and then the nex publication was GET MORE EFFICIENT and back and forth, then they started slipping in the slur of "OR GET OUT"... Promoted and pushed... and cam't forget that there were farm payments from the government that practicly paid for the farms if you applied... several fellows bought farms and had them paid for that way. One guy was always braging about it. But you had to sign up to be told what you could do and what you couldn't do with the signed up acerage. Well he was farming the government. If they would have stayed out of everything, it would be different to some degree for sure. What will it be like in another ten years???will the farmers be under duress for another period that might go for 30 years? Or will it turn back to smaller farms? kinda doubt it, unless theres a prohibition on anything over 150 hp. and zero emmision tractors. LOL ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: JoeO(CMO)
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 6:36am
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I can recall late 50's, early 60's when the NFO was going, farmers were pouring milk down the drain, dumping grain, holding livestock off of market....didn't work!!! Who was hurt by these actions? The producer=farmer. The only people who gained were the high salaried executives running the show. It's a "supply-demand" driven market and no one has come up with a workable solution to keep livestock from growing and grain from being grown. ------------- |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 6:55am
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JC your right on the money about it being greed. There is also another thing you hear all the time now. America was once 50% farmers and now it is only 2% farmers. But there where new jobs formed in new industries the the people who left the farms. I hear that from political talk all the time as the explain how automation is the future. The point I get whenever I hear that is they don't want farmers. Farming is beneath them and in the past. The same with truck driving and any other job that can be outsourced or automated. The point being that they don't give a crap about the little guy with his small farm it isn't cool to them. As long as food is just a cheap thing you have to eat and the land or animals are just a means to an end you will see more nasty chemicals that harm the people using them and animals that are kept in nasty conditions and are kept alive by the cheapest means. I don't know the answer but it is a mindset that has to change. |
Posted By: acben20
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 7:54am
| No I'm not going to strike and we're doing fine but I just thought if every farmer didn't plant in 2017 it would get prices back up some and show the country that they really do need a farmer.. I know it would never happen.. Lol |
Posted By: HD6GTOM
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 8:03am
| Ya I was around in the late 50's-early 1960's the only people that made money was the nfo execs. Dad never joined-fences got cut etc, had 200+ head of fat cattle ready to ship at the time, went ahead and shipped them, made money because they were contracted long before this happened. When things got worse those clowns at the nfo would not let their members get out. Demanded they continue to pay their dues on time. Some of the guys had to get a court order to get out of the nfo. Members sure made a lot of money on that deal. Good luck with that. Hope someone can figure out a solution to the problem. |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 8:40am
Maybe. We've had an excess of two years supply of corn stored in reserve at times. How many farmers would go broke in just one year if they planted nothing? How are beans doing? Last Spring they were bringing $10 a bushel. I've lost track. I was in my old stomping grounds of Wisconsin two weeks ago and I never saw so many beans planted in my life. Should you consider planting an alternative crop? I'm no expert and the so-called experts don't have a workable solution. |
Posted By: Jwmac7060
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 8:48am
| Nobody is going to strike,unfortunatley farming has become a cut throat business at least it has here in Central Indiana...hell if I told a landord I wasn't going to pay cash rent I considered to be too high, there would be another big time operator in the drive way before I left.Prices over the last several years have been very good,all those high prices did was make land,cash rent,equipment, and inputs go through the roof...yeah we may have grossed more money but when it was all said and done we were no better off than when corn was 3$ and cash rent was 100$...u want to make a difference, elect politicians that will take the AG embargo's off half of the countries in the world. We are limited to who we can sell our product to. |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 9:38am
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The best crop no matter what it is for an alternative has no value unless there is a market for it. Marketing is more important than growing. The common grain markets today are world wide with considerable government subsidy or government operation in some parts of the world. Yet some other parts of the world are hungry because of prohibition of GMO seed and chemical fertilizers. Before I retired from farming about 8 years ago I recall one year when I got about 94 cents a bushel for corn, but I had sold ahead earlier in the year for $1.50 and collected about 50 cents LDP. Last year I sold my share (50/50 crop share is more honest than cash rent in my opinion) mostly ahead for an average of $3.80 and sold the corn that I didn't sell ahead for $3.50 in March with some storage and drying costs. My tenant yielded 207.3 bu/acre last year. This year I have 157 bu/acre sold at an average of $3.745. I sure don't like the closing price yesterday at the local elevator of $2.81 so I'll probably be looking at storage again or a price later contract. There is going to be lots of corn stored in Iowa and Illinois this winter with farmers unwilling to take the offered cash price when its well below the cost of production. Growing weeds may cost less (property taxes, utilities, and insurance) than covering inputs and selling crops at a loss. I'm sure I'd get offers to rent or buy the farm once a week if it was growing nothing but weeds. Letting the farm grow weeds for a couple years might make growing crops with minimal weeds difficult with high expenses for field work and herbicides in following years. But without profitable crop contracts, it might be a viable option. The machinery won't show much wear the fallow years. Gerald J. |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 10:48am
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Dan73, Dad and I discussed these issues many times over about how things
were done and how they are done and what the future held. The consensus was what we have today, the big get bigger and the small get smallerand then they are gone, and the profit margins get slimmer... and of coarse, there would be a few highs and more lows in it. And be ready to cash in on them... Well, to cash in on them, you have to know what is coming ahead of time. LOL He also did not like how fast things were getting done, like the big fellows pull in and spray and plant and pull out in an hour what took the small fellow a week to work. Toss on commercial fertilizer, toss on weed spray and herbicide and insecticide and geneticized seed, notill it in and pull out. We watched many times the difference between our fields and the fields that neighbored one of the modern farmers... the deer and raccoon would walk through their field nip and spit the corn out and then jump over or crawl under the fence and eat our corn. That wasn't just one time, that happened many years. We always plowed down a good stand of grass too if it was rented ground and the fields close up got manured. Now that we don't milk anymore, and got unconfined beef instead, they wander out and graze and don't have any significant manure except around the feeding area to haul out. So now the grounds gets other inputs applied instead of the commercial fert. The biggest surprise was when all this genetically modified seed started to show up, the first year was a very low percentage then it just blossomed and in less than 5 years, it was like 80% of the crops were gene altered grains. I thought it would take 20 or more years to get there... it was practically overnight... like pandora's box got its lid blown open, no sneak peeking in through a crack first. ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: Jwmac7060
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 11:17am
| We still plow our ground..everything at least gets deep chiseled I moldboard about 500 acres every fall weather permitting. I plant my corn at 27,500 which is still a higher population than dad would like to see. Shoot for 145 lbs on N on it..keep phosphates where they need to be along with the other micro nutrients and still yield the same as the big time neighbors if not out yield them...i know for a fact my inputs are far less than theirs....they have the fanciest newest auto steer green sh#% that money can buy. They also pay stupid cash rent for everything they farm. I gotta think that the well will eventually dry up for them and my old school tight a$% way of farming will pay off in the end...I don't want to get rich I just don't want to lose money..i already work off the farm for insurance and living expenses...I don't want for my second job to have to start paying the farms bills too. |
Posted By: Jonny B 1938
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 11:26am
| +1 here, free trade and foreign market agreements have put everyone back to the 1970s. I am old enough to remember when farm after farm went into foreclosure. |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 12:48pm
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Its Farming boys, was a time when it was great , now its becoming so much of a joke, imports/ exports ; I seen a post where they are going to send more soybeans to China, have them ground to meal and sent back; cant anyone do that here? It is a cut throat business, and I believe the Govt want only a few big players in the grain market , its sad, but so real
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Posted By: Unit3
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 2:23pm
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One idea that I heard back in LDP days was to plant 20% less corn and plant soybeans on those same acres. The price of beans would fall and corn would go up. We would still get the same price for beans with the help of the LDP. What if we all went out and mowed down the end rows of each farm? That would do a way with any hopes of a record crop. I talked with my lawyer about writing up a lease cancellation notice on my farm lease. I was told not to feel alone. They are writing lots of them. I have no choice but to talk to the landlords. I also have to talk with the elevator and get my inputs and break even prices. Sky high grain prices will always come back to bite. Sky high land prices will too. I am not one for taking out loans. If I don't have the money, I don't buy. I now start looking at the small ticket items in bushels of corn. If i buy a bottle of Pepsi, Coke, or RC and a candy bar, how many bushels of $2.80 corn does it cost me? I just hope gas doesn't take a huge jump. We'll be farming with horses. ------------- 2-8070FWA PS/8050PS/7080/7045PS/200/D15-II/2-WD45/WD/3-WC/UC/C |
Posted By: Unit3
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 2:38pm
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How high/low will it go? Will we see 1.80 for corn and 6.00 beans? I also hear more and more talk the the corn yields are not what the corn counters say it is. The USDA has been known to make a mistake or two when they do their math. Tune in tomorrow for "As The Stomach Turns". ------------- 2-8070FWA PS/8050PS/7080/7045PS/200/D15-II/2-WD45/WD/3-WC/UC/C |
Posted By: shameless (ne)
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 2:48pm
| I been seeing a lot of repo'ed new equipment on consignment auctions already, and the lending places are taking a BIG hit on that equipment, as in $100,000. or more on tractors and planters and support equipment, combines are more! also seeing a lot more forclosures on land and housing than before. and ya'll knew my situation thru the past 2-3 years with me being a small farmer with less than 300 acres. and last year working for nothing even with $3.90 corn, because of the greed factor that someone put into others minds! what will be their excuse now? i'm just gonna sit back and laugh at them! yep....bigger is better! (barf) |
Posted By: shameless (ne)
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 2:53pm
| I also remember the NFO members, taking truck loads of shelled corn to dump in the Missouri river, but they didn't tell anyone that their trucks were full of hay bales and the corn you saw above the top of the truck box was only a foot deep! |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 3:38pm
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I think generally speaking, the smaller farmers actually still LOVE the land and it'd go against the grain( no pun) to NOT farm. The 'big boys' have to as they're a 'mega business' and only look at the bottom line. I'm fairly sure the smaller guys could ride out a year or two, 'living off the land', doing what was 'normal' back 50-60-100 years ago. It sure would be interesting to see what would happen though.... Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 3:45pm
"If we all" being the key phrase. Ain't gonna happen. |
Posted By: Jwmac7060
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 5:09pm
| Our crops in central Indiana look great but looks can be deceiving...lot of yield checks are showing that the heat we have had has indeed hurt more than we thought...everyone was talking 230 to 200 bu for corn....yield check are looking more like 190-170...still a very good crop but not the bumper everyone was hoping for...that being said these late season rains have assured of quite a few 65 bu beans and maybe some 70s on good ground |
Posted By: Unit3
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 5:16pm
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DougS LOL No one would step up and say I'll go first, that's for sure. I was cleaning out the sprayer yesterday which is pulled it with the 7045. Then I put it on the 15' mower, and cleaned up some ditches along the highway. I look at the other AC's and am glad we don't have new ones like some of the neighbors. They keep the cost of production down. ------------- 2-8070FWA PS/8050PS/7080/7045PS/200/D15-II/2-WD45/WD/3-WC/UC/C |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 5:18pm
| Shameless will have to sneak out at night and mow his way across country taking out the end of the corn fields as he goes. Then all the farmers on route can file an insurance claim for the lost corn and everyone will win.... |
Posted By: Unit3
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 5:20pm
Some years ago we had some late season rains and the ears were still pointing up. Rain stood in the shucks and it sprouted the kernels in the bottom spoilage and mold followed.
------------- 2-8070FWA PS/8050PS/7080/7045PS/200/D15-II/2-WD45/WD/3-WC/UC/C |
Posted By: Jwmac7060
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 5:23pm
| Unit3 you are absolutely right...we are going to have alpha toxin,diplodia and all kinds of other good stuff in the corn because of these late rains..already seeing it in the corn...if the ground get too much more saturation it won take much of a wind to uproot and lay a bunch of it over as heavy eared as it is |
Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 5:40pm
| So we strike, and raise less, the rest of the world continues to produce, and we lose market share, how does that help? Plus we had the opportunity to get $11.00 beans and $4.00 plus for corn for this crop and beyond. Lastly, want to get rid of low prices, create demand. For each 1% increase in ethanol demand, would reduce the carryover by 527,000,000 bushels. In other words, just a 2% increase in ethanol use, would get the carryover down to a more manageable level. But most farmers I know, barely use a 10% blend, much less a 30% blend. If we won't use our own product, or the tools that are available to us, then I think we get what we deserve. |
Posted By: Tcmtech
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 6:28pm
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The problem with getting farmers to go on strike is the same as it is for any industry that is made up of a large unconsolidated group of businesses and people. You simply can not get everyone to play the same game at the same time or same reasons. Getting farmers to cooperate on a grand scale and strike is no different that the wants of people in the trucking industry wanting all the truckers in the US to go on strike until unrealistic emission compliance BS is repealed in their business like the railroads have been successfully doing for years. It just won't happen. There's too much independence in play to make it work. Although, farming just like trucking and railroad is a huge primary business in our country it's not like the railroads who are governed by only a handful of entities who know that they have to occasionally come together and make a stand as an all or nothing tactic to keep things stacked in their favour. Farming and Trucking simply don't have that large scale organization and consolidation to pull of such actions.
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Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 6:35pm
| Well give it another decade or two then there will only be a couple of Maga farm companies and you will have your one or two companies that can set the corn price in their fab.... lol |
Posted By: Kurt WI
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 7:47pm
Really?? 7 years of GREAT PROFITS ha I see you must just fix tractors and dont farm! As yeah the prices were high and so were the inputs! And you wanna know what the last 7 years I either lost or broke even except 1 in 2012 when the guys in IL had a bad drought and the crop where great here! ------------- WD D17D 170 190xt 190xtIII 200 7020 |
Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 8:09pm
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Get into meat goats they're bringing record prices and sounds like we got lots of goat meat eaters headed our way. The old saying don't put all your eggs in one basket came directly from the farm too bad many farmers aren't following that advice and they'll pay the price for it.Farming one crop is or one type of livestock is guaranteed to lead to financial trouble sooner or later. |
Posted By: Jwmac7060
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 8:12pm
| Dude....if I gotta start fu#$%% with goats I'm done. I got dad to sell all the sheep 15 years ago...I'll have a sale and quit before I start dealing with goats |
Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 8:29pm
Beats sitting around crying The Blues and going broke.Anyway are you from West Virginia since the first thing that came to your mind when goats were mention was F....ing(LOL)? |
Posted By: DON G
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 9:01pm
 1000 bushels of corn would buy a new vehicle in the 70's. Prices were a little higher than now in 73 or 74.
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Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 9:24pm
| Parity was an NFO argument in 1960. It went nowhere. |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 9:25pm
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Never get everyone together. We are own worst enemy we will always produce till we flood the market just the nature of the beast. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: JoeO(CMO)
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 9:59pm
Prices were a little higher then but vehicles are much, much, much higher now. 1000 bushel of corn might buy an option package or two ------------- |
Posted By: JarrodACFan
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2016 at 11:08pm
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The real kicker is the input costs. Sure, money can be made with $3 corn, but not with the money that you have to put into it now. A few years ago, when corn prices were $6 or maybe better, input costs went through the roof as compared to the previous years. When the bottom fell out of grain prices, the inputs stayed the same, or maybe went down a percent or two. In my opinion, that is just as big of a problem as grain prices. Farmers cam make money with low input costs and low grain prices, high input costs and high grain prices, but not with high input costs and low grain prices. I am reminded of a quote by JFK, "The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, pays the freight both ways." ------------- 1956 WD45 Narrow Front Factory Power Steering, 1953 WD Wide Front Allis Express in Muncie, IN |
Posted By: Jonny B 1938
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 12:02am
| Could do ethanol grass or hay, and say forget it. I see a lot of farmers doing winter wheat also, just to get a decent price for the crop many are doing different options. We do 50 acres soy and 50 corn, really with share cropping it would not be enough to live off of. Basically it covers taxes and make a little profit but another source of income is needed to survive. |
Posted By: shameless (ne)
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 3:30am
| couple years ago a big green farmer was farming a friends place that retired. they had bought a new combine with all the fancy extras and gave my friend a ride in it while harvesting his place. then it came time to sell and my friend didn't get a grain check. when he inquired about where his 1/2 was? the big farmer told him since he was getting SS, and that a big combine payment was due, my friend wasn't gonna get his share that year. but maybe next year! the friend had to sue him for his 1/2 of the crop off his farm. |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 8:42am
...and why are input costs so high? Fertilizer costs skyrocketed several years ago, when petroleum prices were ridiculous. I know they have dropped some, but not nearly to what they were. A friend of mine who is still farming tells me about $300/bag corn seed. I know I'm old, but I remember when the top varieties were $70/bag and the ones we usually planted were ~$35/bag. Corn seed is corn! Have you seen any of these seed companies lower their price drastically now that corn prices have dropped??? Most farmers won't strike because they can't. Most have debt and no income means you are bankrupt and out of business. I grew up on, and later operated a dairy farm. When you are producing a perishable commodity, it's impossible to store and sell later. Farming has always ran in cycles. When prices are high, everyone tries to produce more to increase profits. Then they suffer when oversupply lowers prices. |
Posted By: Andrew(southernIL)
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 9:31am
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Was talking to a guy at Okawville last week still farming 500 acres with a 440 and 220 and a couple Case tractors. Said a guy in his area farming 5000 acres with all the latest green stuff had to ask the landowner of some of the ground he snatched up from others on a long term high rent deal had to ask for them to let his rent payment be delayed because he was still trying to get a loan to go through but was pretty sure he was going to get it but had to go to a big bank in Louisville to get a 3 million dollar loan to operate on for the year. This guy's opinion was if these prices continue it will take more big farmers out than it did in the 80s. ------------- If fishing is a sport your looking at an athlete |
Posted By: Andrew(southernIL)
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 9:37am
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We sell a little corn for Wyffels and got our price list a couple weeks ago for next year and yes seed prices have gone up a little again for next year but not by a whole lot. Worse part is Monsanto criticized them for not increasing prices more than they did. ------------- If fishing is a sport your looking at an athlete |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 9:37am
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In most of Iowa winter wheat is not a viable option. There are no markets buying it. On Friday night's Market to Market the guest analyst suggested because the world wheat market is saturated that US farmers should not grow wheat at all. Before the 1890s wheat was a major crop in Iowa but not since then. My theory was that high humidity encouraged fungal growth in a period without fungicides. A short history of a NE Iowa flower mill I read a couple days ago said it went out of business in 1890 when an invasion of chinch bugs ruined the wheat crop. There weren't insecticides either. High prices encourage high production so its been said "high prices cure high prices." And given enough time low prices tend to cure low prices by discouraging production. Seed costs are proportional to plant population, but crops are sometimes flexible so that cutting the population doesn't cut the production as much, but certainly cuts costs. Same thing can apply to fertilizer applications. There is some evidence that fertilizer applications tend to be greater than crop needs and removal. With a careful choice of corn variety, in 2007 I raised 173.2 bushel / acre corn with only 111 pounds of applied nitrogen after fair beans. I had MAP spread a few days before planting, I notilled the corn with the planter applying 60 pounds of N (32% liquid) 2-1/4" from the rows and I side dressed 40 pounds of N in 32% dribbling every other row when the corn was 4 feet tall. The organic matter was high so it supplied some nitrogen also. But I sure cut my fertilizer input costs, though the plant population was 34K on the high side as suggested by the seed DSM for my planned nutrition. I only tried that once. Gerald J. |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 9:45am
| There's some guys that just file bankruptcy, put it in someone else's name and keep farming,,, live like millionaires always driving New stuff, no care in the world! But eventually it will catch them, I can kinda understand as I luv the farming life, but eventually you gotta say enough is enough! |
Posted By: CALEBnOK
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 9:58am
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Right here by my house the smaller farmers have been paid oil & gas leases and they put in a couple wind farms. They went out and bought newer equipment, leased ground on the high side. Now what im hearing is with oil & gas and the grain prices down along with cattle is that there will be alot of ground up for grabs shortly. One farmer is leasing everything that comes available. Another big farmer whos equipment i work on says that guy is pricing even him out! He farms 10,000 acres and lost 2,000 last year due to lease prices. |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 10:54am
| I always wondered how hard it would be to raise you own corn seed. Seems like you could just set aside a field and harvest the ears alert they had fully matured. We never did when we planted cattle corn but with rising corn seed prices and a field full of corn I wanted to harvest I always wondered. |
Posted By: Tcmtech
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 11:20am
I think every small town in the midwest has one or two families that built themselves up that way. I know mine did.  Somewhere itne 1950's - 60's grandpa buried himself in debt then bankrupted and passed the farm onto son 1 who did the same 10 or so years later then over to son 2 another 10 or so years again while somewhere along the line son or daughter 3 went to school to become a professional bankruptcy lawyer so they and next generation had solid legal backup to do the process over en masse 3 - 4 more of them since the mid 90's? and the whole community kisses their butts because they are huge rich multigenerational farmers.  That sound familiar to anyone else?
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Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 11:30am
I don't know if hybrids used like that for seed would produce much or not. As I understand it, if it's GMO seed Monsanto would come after you. They own the patent on it and you can't use it for seed even if it's your own. |
Posted By: ranger42
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 11:45am
Agreed, if people didn't hedge some of their crop this summer they have no one to blame but themselves. Also, over the last 8-10 years with interest rates as they are and price opportunities there is absolutely no reason farmers shouldn't have made significant profits even with the input costs. So in the end it all comes down to greed as JC was discussing. When the prices were 7 and 15 guys were running over the backs of their neighbors to get more ground even they had a god's plenty already and couldn't properly take care of what they had. Also nobody is really interested in diversification anymore -too much like work
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 11:54am
If Africa ever gets it together, they'll put many farmers out of business with all that rich land. I don't look for that to happen in my lifetime. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Jwmac7060
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 12:05pm
| I hedged a huge portion of my crop at 4.20 and I feel fortunate...that being said, 4.20 still isn't that great considering the input costs. Ethanol is not the answer either...you will never see a mandate above 10%...if the govt ever quits subsidising it, every ethanol plant will close...bio fuels are all a joke..if they were that good they would stand on their own without the govt paying for them |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 12:07pm
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Farmers need to follow Jewish law. It requires that you let the soil lay fallow once every seven years. |
Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 12:34pm
What subsidies is ethanol getting?
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Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 1:23pm
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Tax incentives. Here in Iowa the pump price of E10 is 30 cents below that of regular. When I lived in Oregon the state provided a 10 cent per gallon to the Boardman ethanol plant and required all auto regular to be E10. Ethanol would not survive in a true free market unless crude was consistently well above $100 a barrel. |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 1:43pm
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There are corn varieties from long ago that you could successfully keep the seed and have the same characteristics each year. Unfortunately those characteristics include 50 or 60 bushel per acre yield. Typically the modern hybrid corn doesn't reproduce from the gain well. Those I've had come up in bean fields in years past didn't grow tall or pollinate well growing nubbin ears with only a few kernels. Not what I'd want for corn to be harvested. Gerald J. |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 2:23pm
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Ahhh, If corn is not profitable why would you plant corn? That is a farmers strike when you quit contributing to the over abundance of corn or any other farm product which is what brings prices down. It is called supply and demand.
Feed your corn to beef and get your corn profit on the hoof. As I was growing up Dad sold very little corn for cash. He sold what corn was not used for feed to empty the cribs for the new crop. The corn went into chickens, hogs, dairy cows, and beef.
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Posted By: shameless (ne)
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 4:15pm
| yep....what Dick says! as per the subsidies that the govt gives the ethanol plants. it's real close to the price they sell the ethanol for just pennies difference. say they sell the ethanol for $1.20/gallon, the govt. will give them $1.17/gallon. (just an example) |
Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 4:41pm
| Show me where ethanol is getting subsidies, because it is not, has not since 2012, and the ethanol plants are still running. |
Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 4:47pm
The #1 subsidy that ethanol gets is that almost everyone that buys gasoline is forced by the Gov't to buy ethanol. |
Posted By: Jwmac7060
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 4:55pm
| Big Al there are more ethanol plants sitting closed then there are running right now...there where ethanol plants built that never made the first drop of ethanol that are sitting idle right now...without the 10% mandate in gas there would be no need for it at all...ethanol is a joke that makes hippy liberals feel good...take away the mandate and watch the demand for it disappear. I haul fuel as well as farm and farmers don't like the ethanol or the bio diesel...our little refinery pays a ridiculous amount of tax every year because we don't sell enough corn and beans squeezings in our fuel...we push it like hell but the demand is just not there...just like the govt to force something down our throats that the consumer doesn't want....corn should be for food,feed, and whiskey..hell bio diesel isn't made from beans as much as it's made from road kill and animal fat...the whole renewable energy thing is a huge farce |
Posted By: Jwmac7060
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 4:56pm
| Gary is 100% right |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 6:02pm
| Well when the ethanol turns to jelly in my carburetor I really don't care for it at all. My d17 hates that stuff. I agree make whiskey or feed it to pigs and sell the pork to china they can't get enough pork over there.... |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 6:38pm
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You're onto something, Dan. Let's repeal the booze tax and really get the corn flowing. :) Seriously, in the good old days farmers were already diversified. They would grow corn, beans, hay and more. They would also raise pork, beef and perhaps have some dairy. While they did not make money hand over fist like when corn was going gangbusters, they were somewhat protected when grain prices were in the toilet. Today you see farmers buying more and more land and expecting to make millions raising only corn. |
Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 8:10pm
| I'm thinking medical marijuana might be the next profitable crop to plant!! Ryan |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 8:13pm
Seems like it would be hard to keep it from being harvested at night for you... |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 8:22pm
------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Jwmac7060
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 8:35pm
| I'm down for that....cut it and bail it like hay |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 8:37pm
| Wow just think what them bales would be worth..... |
Posted By: 45 turboa-
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 9:06pm
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Hemp was a crop one time until the gov band it I guess many things can be made from it. That would be a good cash crop if it was legal again. ------------- turbocharged |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 9:44pm
The state legislature made it legal to grow hemp as an agricultural crop in Oregon a few years ago. Subject to federal government approval. That hasn't happened yet despite Oregon legalizing maryjane last year. |
Posted By: Tcmtech
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 9:45pm
Ethanol is no tht source of that damned goo. It's the reformulated gasoline they make today. Ethanol is the same ethyl alcohol you have in liquors and do yo know of any high proof liquor like everclear that leave any residue behind if the cap is left off and it all evaporates? I don't. FWIW I run E30 and higher blends in everything and I do mean everything from my 4 stroke string trimmer on up and I have no better or worse fuel problems than everyone else who insists on running straight non ethanol fuels. Ethanol is getting an unfair blame for what they did to gasoline blends over the last decade or two to meet the latest BS emissions compliance specs. Ever wonder why you can buy a old machine that has sat for 20+ years and it will still run on the old gas in its tank yet today's fuels go sour and become unburnable goo in a matter of a few months or less? It's not the ethanol content that makes it that way.
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Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 9:49pm
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Ethanol draws and mixes with water. Therein lays the problem. |
Posted By: Tcmtech
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 10:00pm
So do the gasoline blends they have now.  But realistically you shouldn't be getting moisture in your fuel tanks unless your tank caps have bad seals. I run my MF 202 industrial tractor forklift, International W450, John Deere A, and my daily driver vehicles that are not propane fueled on E30 and higher blends year round here in north dakota and I don't have moisture issues doing it but then most of them burn through a tank of fuel in a month or less so nothing has time to sit long enough to ever collect enough moisture to begin with. BTW I have played around with seeing how much water an E30 mix can take before it won't run normally and it's a lot. Upward of a quart or better in a five gallon bucket so if you're getting that much condensation in a machine's fuel tank you have some serious rain leakage issues to deal with or you need to run the damn thing more than 5 minutes a year!
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Posted By: Auntwayne
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 10:04pm
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It just took me about an hour to read all 3 pages of this post , but, page 3 made the most sense of them all combined. Duane
------------- Dad always said," If you have one boy, you have a man. If you have two boys, you have two boys". "ALLIS EXPRESS" |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 10:09pm
| Well my d17 puts up about 7000 bales of hay in the summer so a tank of fuel is measured in hours all summer and in the winter it is in a barn high an dry. It also has a lined tank with a new cap and repaired filler neck yet it still fights with goo in the spring so I think your water tests must be missing something. |
Posted By: Tcmtech
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2016 at 10:23pm
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THe goo comes from a chemical reaction between the new blends of gasoline and the oxygen in the air. Because of that reaction with oxygen depending on how well or poorly the fuel container, tank is sealed that reaction can make good fuel into worthless goo in less than a month regardless of whether it ever saw a drop of ethanol or water blended into it. http://blog.gasbuddy.com/posts/Maintenance-Monday-Shelf-life-of-gasoline/1715-412027-322.aspx" rel="nofollow - https://blog.gasbuddy.com/posts/Maintenance-Monday-Shelf-life-of-gasoline/1715-412027-322.aspx Simply put it's basically designed to go bad on purpose now just from open air oxygen contact alone. Water can contaminate it and ethanol being a highly volatile alcohol will simply evaporate leaving the gasoline base stock behind that turns into the dreaded goo that forms from its own reactions with oxygen.
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Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2016 at 1:13am
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Local Federated parts store has a large sign posted with all the problems to expect when running ethanol blended gas,they didn't just dream it all up.I know when I run non ethanol gas in small engines I have less problems with carbs gumming up especially when they sit for awhile than I do when I use ethanol blend. |
Posted By: Jwmac7060
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2016 at 4:38am
| Ethanol and water is the real problem...it's called phase separation...older engines,small engines,and two strokes run better on non ethanol gas.Anything with a carburetor will run better on non ethanol gas I don't care what you say...and these so called junk gas stocks you're talking about I'm not aware of in Indiana....everything comes out of our refinery at either 84 octane or 91 octane...the ethanol is then added to make the higher octane blends |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2016 at 6:19am
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two things we should ALL agree on 1) regular 'gas' (whatever the stuff that comes out of the pump) is NOT as good as it was years ago....... 2) the guv and some fat cats are scamming us so they can line THEIR pockets.... Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2016 at 6:54am
HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!! |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2016 at 6:57am
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It is almost impossible to keep water out of gasoline in the supply system from the refinery to your fuel tank. In pure gasoline the water settles to the bottom and can be dealt with. Water doesn't do this in E10. Even with 100LL (aircraft) fuel I would occasionally drain a bit of water from the bottom of the aircraft fuel tanks when I did a preflight check. This is a big reason why the FAA has not approved E10 for aircraft use. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2016 at 7:05am
November feeder cattle futures: $1.32. $.07 over what it was 30 years ago! Brilliant strategy. At least it keeps you too busy all winter to have time to bitch about it!  Oh, and, I have cattle!
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Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2016 at 7:16am
| The thing is, none of us can see the future, and none of us can figure out the tangled web of government involvement. There's government programs that pull one direction where a different program pulls another. If you pick a pet peeve program, and want it gone, if it disappeared there would surely be an unforeseen or unintended consequence. It's easy to say the gov't should just get out of it all together, and that's a fine concept, but if you live in reality, you just absolutely know that is never going to happen. |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2016 at 7:58am
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Pigs would be better then cattle. I have cattle because I grew up with cows and like taking care of them they are easy and I understand the issues you have with them. But let me tell you without spending a lot of money to get started with cattle it is a very slow process. That 18 month to 2 years old for slaughter doesn't even sound that bad but you have to carry the mother for about a year before hand so you end up carrying critters for 3 years to get started. Slow slow process. With pigs I could have picked up piglets for a reasonable price and sold them 6 months later. But pigs won't eat my hay and thrive the way belties do. As to government yup that is a mess big business and greed rule our world right now and I don't see that changing. Makes me think I should raise my own food and get solar power so I am off grid then I just need to cover taxes... I think in alot of ways life was better 100 years ago when most people lived on a small family farm and they worked hard but got most everything they needed off the land. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2016 at 8:50am
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Dan you may be right about pigs. For now. Just a few years ago the bottom completely fell out of that market too, and has recovered some I think. I agree with your point about cattle, but actually I think it's worse, because if you sell all of them as beef weight, you are feeding 3 mouths for every 1 head of cash flow: The mother, a 1st year calf, and the second year calf that's coming up to weight. Plus a bull or 2. I sell about 1/2 of mine as fall feeders. 1/2 of what's left is raised for freezer beef for my extended family and for sale, and the last 1/4 is replacement females. At this time, roughly 1/2 my land supports the cattle, the other 1/2 is cash flow, such as hay for sale, corn, soybeans, wheat from time to time. I am diversified, which helps a lot, just this year, it all sucks!!! At least we had a drought too.
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Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2016 at 8:56am
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" I think in alot of ways life was better 100 years ago when most people
lived on a small family farm and they worked hard but got most
everything they needed off the land." Then some political arse sees you thriving and figures out a new way to screw you some more. ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2016 at 8:59am
| Yup the reason I have the cows is to get my fields back in shape so I can sell the hay to the horse people. Cows can eat anything compared to horses. I think adding some pigs would make sense for me but I haven't wanted to figure out the feed and make a place for them. I am thinking maybe a dozen at the most. The down side is i don't want to keep the sow and deal with the birthing and castration of pigs so I would be stuck buying them and sometimes around here they are expensive. |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2016 at 9:27am
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as far as grain, corn and soybeans have had good prices in the summer. all you have to do is lock in, or bin it. was $4.50 this last june (only 3 months ago) and I expect it to be in the $4 range come next june just like it always does. I'm just Thankfull I dont have to do Wheat.... the guys in Kansas, and Oklahoma are hurting with these prices. We just need to get rid of cash rent, federally subsidized crop insurance, and bulk discounts. everything in AG promotes expansion, you cant buy a new "little" combine in the U.S. Bigger, Bigger, BIGGER if this continues there will be no Family farm or even farmers. just corporate offices, and laborers to work the ground
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Posted By: Tcmtech
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2016 at 11:00am
On a carbureted engines with a fixed jet orifice design (non adjustable main and idle jets) like they put on most every small engine now are jetted to run as close to stichiomentic ratio, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoichiometry" rel="nofollow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoichiometry , as they can get to meet emissions standards (theoretically cleanest burn and not most energy efficient which for gasoline is aroudn 12.5 - 13:1) which for gasoline is ~14.5:1 or right on the edge of being too lean to run properly. Ethanol has a much lower stoichiometric ratio of ~9:1 so when added to gasoline it pushes the effective air/fuel ratio the wrong way compromising engine performance and power due to the inability to be able to adjust the A/F ratio due to the fixed jet design. http://ethanolpro.tripod.com/id213.html " rel="nofollow - http://ethanolpro.tripod.com/id213.html On older engines with adjustable jetting it's not a problem. Nor is it a problem if a fixed jet carburetor has a larger jet installed that brings the effective A/F ratio back into a range the engine can handle. On the fixed jet carburetors it requires either putting in a larger jet or simply drilling out the stock one a few 1000'ths of an inch which is what I have done to all of mine that I want to run E30 on. After that there is no noticeable change in engine power or performance until the ethanol ratio is way higher such as running straight E85. Now for the gasoline stock I am referring to is their chemical compound base stocks or feedstocks as in the many individual molecular structures mixed together to make gasoline. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline " rel="nofollow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline Several of them are easily oxidized which makes them break down into what we see as that goo. The main molecular group that causes the goo issue are called Olefins and unfortunately they make up around 40 - 60 % of gasolines total volume. The two primary problems with them is they are sensitive to both heat degradation and oxygenation degradation from either pulling oxygen directly from the air or stripping it from water molecules. http://www.ogj.com/articles/print/volume-101/issue-6/processing/olefin-reduction-strategies.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.ogj.com/articles/print/volume-101/issue-6/processing/olefin-reduction-strategies.html Or if you do have a well sealed fuel systems where air and water can't easily get in thegeniuses at the petro companies have already solved that problem by making gasoline out of around 10-15% by volume MTBE which is an oxygenator of which if given time the Olefin molecules will strip the oxygen from the MTBE molecules and break down into goo anyway. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methyl_tert-butyl_ether" rel="nofollow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methyl_tert-butyl_ether So there you go. Whether you have ethanol or not they already have your gasoline formulated to breakdown into goo by design simply from its two primary base feedstocks. Also if you are wondering what makes up the remaining percentage of gasoline it's a blend of several compounds referred to as BTEX. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTEX" rel="nofollow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTEX As I mentioned in the begining and in other posts I have been running pretty much everything I have that burns gasoline as a fuel runs on E30 blends without problems but then I did make the necessary changes to accommodate it like drilling the jets out on the fixed jet carburetors and turning the fuel screws out a bit on the old adjustable jet ones. If a person takes the time to learn about what they don't understand finding ways to fix a problem is not that difficult. I did and that's why I have zero issues with ethanol blended fuels and running them in way higher ethanol ratios than most think should be possible.  BTW ethanol can be converted into olefins and used for the manufacture of gasoline. http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=ethanol+to+olefins&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwispvas9ubOAhUN3WMKHWtgAOMQgQMIKDAA" rel="nofollow - https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=ethanol+to+olefins&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwispvas9ubOAhUN3WMKHWtgAOMQgQMIKDAA Plus in its native fom it's also a more enviromntally friendly alterative to the use of MTBE. http://ascelibrary.org/doi/abs/10.1061/%28ASCE%290733-9372%282002%29128:9%28862%29" rel="nofollow - http://ascelibrary.org/doi/abs/10.1061/(ASCE)0733-9372(2002)128:9(862)  So do you follow where I am coming from now on why I don't have a issue with ethanol fuels?  |