B Engine Cylinder Head Performance
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Other Topics
Forum Name: Pulling Forum
Forum Description: Forum dedicated to Tractor and Garden Pulling
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=124536
Printed Date: 28 Nov 2024 at 4:13am
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Topic: B Engine Cylinder Head Performance
Posted By: Ryan59
Subject: B Engine Cylinder Head Performance
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2016 at 5:02pm
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Hello gentlemen, ladies. First I would like to say that I am not pulling with my tractor, but I would like to share and ask questions about performance concerning just the model B (125ci) engine. I removed the cylinder head off my engine, removed the valves and guides, pressure washed it and inspected it. There was substantial corrosion in the runners and valve pockets. I spent roughly six hours shaping and blending the runners and pocket areas to both remove the damage and smooth-blend below the valve seats and reduce the radii of the split intake "Y". Before doing a final smoothing/blending I took the head in to have .150 skimmed off the surface. Looking at the factory rocker arm assy I can see room for improvement. First I measured a stock rocker to get an idea of the ratio. Center of shaft to center of valve stem 1.95 and center of shaft to center of pushrod 1.30. Divide 1.95 by 1.30 equals 1.5 ratio. This was just an "eyeball" measurement but it's what I am going to go by. http://s150.photobucket.com/user/rw68560/media/DSC_0044_1.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  " border=""> |
Replies:
Posted By: Ryan59
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2016 at 5:07pm
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Posted By: Ryan59
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2016 at 5:09pm
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Posted By: Ryan59
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2016 at 5:11pm
This is a 1.6 roller rocker, I have some spare BB 1.73 Lunati's that may be better to work with. http://s150.photobucket.com/user/rw68560/media/DSC_0060.jpg.html" rel="nofollow"> " border="">
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Posted By: Ryan59
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2016 at 5:13pm
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Posted By: Ryan59
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2016 at 5:16pm
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This tray was under the rocker arm assy. Seems like it would prevent oil from dripping on the lifters & camshaft...maybe? http://s150.photobucket.com/user/rw68560/media/DSC_0056.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  " border=""> |
Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 7:27am
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The "tray" was used to keep oil away from the valve guides before stem seals were generally accepted.
If you're not looking for added performance for pulling, what is the need for the trick parts, porting and taking .150" off of the surface?
Many of these engines have run for many decades in factory form and most will out live many of use just as they were built. ------------- If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
Posted By: Ryan59
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 10:41am
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Thanks Paul, I wasn't sure why that tray was used. Shop finally called to say my cylinder head was finished. They media-blasted it first, installed the guides I supplied, installed hardened exhaust seats, cut the valve seat angles on a Serti machine. Lastly they milled the surface of the head .150. http://s150.photobucket.com/user/rw68560/media/DSC_0068.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  " border=""> |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 10:46am
Paul happens to be running a turbo CA ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: Ryan59
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 10:59am
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This picture is a give-away to how far the head was milled. http://s150.photobucket.com/user/rw68560/media/DSC_0074_2.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  " border=""> |
Posted By: Ryan59
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 11:01am
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Looks like a new head. http://s150.photobucket.com/user/rw68560/media/DSC_0075_2.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  " border=""> |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 11:04am
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happen to have 2 kz 1000's sitting at dads place :) ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: Ryan59
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 11:04am
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Two of the exhaust seats were pitted deep enough that seats had to be installed. The shop owner said to just do all the exhausts and it will be unleaded gas friendly, never have to worry about seats wearing out again. http://s150.photobucket.com/user/rw68560/media/DSC_0071_1.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  " border=""> |
Posted By: Ryan59
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 11:14am
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I may retake these pictures with a different camera/lens. It's difficult to show the bowl porting. I spent a leisure 6 hours smoothing and blending the bowls to the runners. Not necessarily for performance because this engine has had water in it over a long periods of time. The piston domes of 1 and 2 are extremely bad and all of the sleeves will note hone out (pitting) Anyway I basically blended all the exhaust bowls and runners to match. I did a little at a time. After I removed so much on the 1st bad port, I would move to the next and so on until they were all equal (feeling with my calibrated index finger). http://s150.photobucket.com/user/rw68560/media/DSC_0083.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  " border=""> |
Posted By: Ryan59
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 11:15am
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This belt-drive magneto would work with any 4-cylinder or V8 engine. Make a bracket to hold it in place and go. http://s150.photobucket.com/user/rw68560/media/DSC_0072_1.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  " border="">
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Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 11:30am
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my dad bought one new in 78 and still has it. bout 17k miles on it now. he got another one a couple of years ago so one of us boys could ride with him. its usually my brother who has no kids ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: Ryan59
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 2:55pm
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Before pressure washing this head it needs a little clean-up porting with sand-paper rolls. More or less to radius sharp edges, nothing real important. http://s150.photobucket.com/user/rw68560/media/DSC_0082.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  " border=""> |
Posted By: Ryan59
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 2:58pm
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Hard to focus on the inside of these bowls to show how conservative I ported these. http://s150.photobucket.com/user/rw68560/media/DSC_0079_2.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  " border=""> |
Posted By: Ryan59
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 3:01pm
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One thing I did "open up" was the "Y" split area where the intake runners divide. I decided not to build-up the back-side wall of this split port with epoxy as described by a knowledgeable and highly respected person on this forum. I had to remind myself that I'm not going for the level of performance that his engine is built. http://s150.photobucket.com/user/rw68560/media/DSC_0078_2.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  " border=""> |
Posted By: Ryan59
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 3:03pm
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I can make this conversion plate relatively easy but as some of you may already know the push-rod holes would need to be off-set. Before I get to far along could one of the modification oriented person's step in and advise. http://s150.photobucket.com/user/rw68560/media/DSC_0090_1.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  " border=""> |
Posted By: Ryan59
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 3:06pm
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I bought these 1.73, 7/16 stud Lunati's 19 years ago and would like to attempt to use them if at all possible. From the center of the push-rod to the center of the valve stem roller that are 1" shorter in length that the stock stamped steel & spot welded arms. http://s150.photobucket.com/user/rw68560/media/DSC_0089_1.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  " border=""> |
Posted By: Ryan59
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 3:17pm
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I can drill and tap these Lunati's for the adjustment screw. http://s150.photobucket.com/user/rw68560/media/DSC_0085.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  " border=""> |
Posted By: patrickmull
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 7:15pm
| what is that distributor off of |
Posted By: Ryan59
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 9:09pm
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With a blue cap? It's a Vertex magneto. It's off a Kawasaki KZ1000 drag bike. |
Posted By: Alex09(WI)
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2016 at 11:05pm
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Apparently this topic has become "look at my foreign motorbikes" instead of "B cylinder head performance"
------------- www.awtractor.com A&W TRACTOR 920-598-1287 KEEPING ALLIS-CHALMERS IN THE FIELDS THROUGH THE 21ST CENTURY |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2016 at 11:12am
SO???!!! Performance is bilingual. ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Alex09(WI) wrote:Posted By: Ryan59
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2016 at 2:53pm
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If you are thinking the pictures are taking up band width you are wrong.
They are simply linked to my photobucket account. They can go away as
quickly as they appeared. As my cylinder head work progresses I will clear the motorcycle pics. Parts should have arrived Monday but YT said they are behind getting orders out. Head has been in the shop waiting..... This was my daily rider, 2010 FXDWG bought new. Had to sell when I retired. http://s150.photobucket.com/user/rw68560/media/DSC_0013.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  " border=""> |
Posted By: Ryan59
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2016 at 3:04pm
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That magneto would work on any 4-cylinder and V8 engines as well. Vertex makes a cap for dual-plug 4-cylinder heads. On a V8 the second wire would connect to a cylinder on the exhaust stroke. So 1-4-6-7 fire on the compression stroke and 8-3-5-2 fir on the exhaust stroke for that 720 degrees. Crank trigger ignitions use (or can use) 4 coils with dual plug wires coming out. As far as the crank trigger is concerned it's bolted to a 4-cylinder engine. This is the kind of information that is universal. |
Posted By: patrickmull
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2016 at 4:39pm
| it looked like it could be used on my pulling tractor |
Posted By: Ryan59
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2016 at 6:35pm
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And it would. If you had a front engine plate, it could mount on there backwards so the cap faces the engine & wires would be where they should be. The belt would be in front and be driven off the crank. The governor would still control the carburetor arm. Just put a block-off plate on the back side to keep oil in. Looking at the mag off this tractor it doesn't have any advance/retard either so this wouldn't be any different. Set it at what? 20 degrees crankshaft? For stock governor. |
Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2016 at 7:22am
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Ryan: It may not be necessary for you, with out turning much speed, although the added spring pressure may require stronger pushrods. I use Dodge 225 slat 6 ones that I shorten just a tad. After that I've never bent anymore. The stock pushrods will bend just because sometimes. They were not designed to run at the speeds I'm running or with the boost pressure. With anything, after you go beyond the design tolerance you will find the first weak link. After upgrading that, you will find the next weak link. This is what us tractor pullers are constantly doing.
------------- If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
Posted By: Ryan59
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2016 at 2:02pm
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Thanks Paul, I appreciate the response. Is there enough material to move the pushrod hole over? I understand about the valve springs RPM.s and not needing any of this stuff. The tractor I am working on is not a cream puff, it never will be. Someone with a blow torch loved to use it. Although he did blow a hole through the torque tube to mount a Mopar starter, he used the torch to drill holes, trim small things, make a Frankenstein bracket for the alternator. I have removed some of his handy work. But understand that I am not beating up this tractor anything close to what the torch guy did. I have the time and "some" knowledge to work on this valve trane IF it's possible to move the pushrod holes over without breaking through a water jacket. I was going to just throw the head back on and go but the more I look at the cylinder liners the worse they seem to get..... http://s150.photobucket.com/user/rw68560/media/DSC_0062.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  " border=""> |
Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2016 at 6:48am
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I have never tried to move the pushrod holes over. I've always found the OEM rockers to do the job intended
even with the high RPMs, extra spring pressure and boost that I run. I also feel that steel or iron rockers are superior and durable to aluminum for anything other than extreme (10,000+) RPM. I have enlarged the holes on some heads to used the larger Dodge pushrods and not had a problem for what was need to stop rubbing.
------------- If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |