Allis A
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12390
Printed Date: 31 Jan 2025 at 5:53am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Allis A
Posted By: Charlie175
Subject: Allis A
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 9:12am
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Why were these tractors not a success? Seems like the had the right ingredients: good HP, 4 speed, heavy weight. After that model Allis didn't have a heavy tractor for a long time. Maybe the D-21 was its successor? ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Replies:
Posted By: Tricky Dickie
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 10:29am
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The problem with the A was its lack of traction. It effectively had a U back end with an E engine and front end. The excellent E engine produced oodles of power and torgue, but the A just couldn't get it onto the ground because of the lack of weight on the rear wheels. Allis would have been far better to have updated the E by installing a couple of extra gears in the heavy E transmission and calling it the A. Now THAT would have been some tractor!
Tricky Dickie
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Posted By: Dale H. ECIL
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 10:05pm
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The main reason the A tractor was doomed is because it was at the end of the need for a big tractor to run the big threshing machines. The pull type combines were coming on the scene. The WC was a lot more modern tractor and easier to drive and handle and a lot of farmers could not see keeping a big tractor around. Then the WD came out with foot breaks, hyd., rear lift, hand clutch. ------------- Allis Chalmers Museum, Paris, Il.http:// www.allischalmersmuseum.com 217-275-3428 |
Posted By: Walter(MO)
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 10:18pm
| Dale you mention the WD with all the modern features. Don't forget the power shift wheels which was a real time saver for cultivating when the wheels needed to be shifted to different widths. A great tractor with lots of modern features. |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 10:45pm
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Although at the same time Case had a big LA then 600, JD had the R and IHC the W9. Oh Yeah, Massey had the 55. All basically wheatland tractors also good for belt pulley work. Perhaps AC users just weren't into big tractors?
------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: Tricky Dickie
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 3:04am
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Allis had made excellent "big tractors" prior to the introduction of the A. It was the mistake of saving costs by adapting the lighter "U" transmission which doomed the A. As has been said, Case and others did very well with big tractors long after Allis had dropped the A. All the A needed to be one of the greats was a suitable heavy 4 speed transmission and a few other tweaks to sort out the weight distribution etc. They quickly gave up on the A, instead of improving it and developing it as an alternative to Case's great LA !
Tricky Dickie
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Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 7:03am
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I wasn’t there so I can only speculate but there was problems with the early ones with the transmission and those kinds of things can easily doom a tractor even if it gets fixed, the 560 IHC is an example of this. The first ones had problems but the bad mark lived with it to the end. The late A transmission was a tremendous improvement as anyone who has seen the internals side by side can attest. Another problem that was never addressed was the brakes. One cannot fully appreciate individual brakes until he runs a tractor without them. Another big problem that was not mechanical was the fact that it was meant to be a hi-speed (for the times) tractor and people who could not get past the mind set of pulling as much as you can in the lowest gear could easily tear one up. even the late ones. This is the same mind set that tore up the rear ends in model 185 and 190XT tractors many years later. The A in any kind of shape motor wise will pull 4-14 or 16s in any ground in 2nd and in most cases 3rd which is close to 5MPH, unheard of plowing speed in 1937 unless a swarm of bees was after the team, or a car back fired. Another problem was the motor was easily hot rodded with parts that A-C was glad to sell. Our #2 A which has internals not a whole lot different that the 5 1/4" LP fuel pistons and sleeves that A-C sold for power units will pull 80 HP all day long on the dyno and has approached 90 HP on a cool day with low humidity. Stick 5-16 behind that and shift her down into low gear in a gumbo pot hole and see what grenades behind the clutch housing??? So many As were fitted with over bores that it is hard to find one these days still 4 3/4". All that being said you really cannot introduce a tractor along with a list of excuses. Allis was not committed to the large tractor market in the late 30s and their effort with the "A" shows it |
Posted By: John (C-IL)
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 7:36am
| The other thing that is forgotten during that time period is the influence that WWII had on all industrial production. Getting the most bang for the buck/pound of iron was very important. The WC and all of the OB row crow tractors was giving the most production per pound of iron when raw materials were at at premium. Include the B and C in that equation and you can see the demise of the "big" tractor coming. |
Posted By: Bill Long
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 8:12am
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Listen closely to what Butch says. He is the resident expert on the A.
Frankly, as I have said before, I never saw an A till the GOTO in New York. They were just too big for our Maryland Farms. At the time I do not think there was the necessity of that powerful a tractor in our area. There were some UC's and U's in our area. The WC was out with the All Crop which partially eliminated the need for a powerful thrashing tractor. Also remember just before WWII the US was still in the throes of a deep depression. Money was not avaliable and people were buying and using B's as the main tractor on a fairly large farm just because money was not available. Also, WWII came about and the A was discontinued in 1942. If I recall the government decreed that due to shortage of raw materials tractor production was necessary but limited to several units only. Thereby the A was cancelled.
That said I still have taken a likin to the A. Perhaps it was a tractor like the Etsel automobile, came out just a little too late for it's time.
Good Luck!
Bill Long
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Posted By: David Maddux
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 8:28am
But there is a majesty to these behemoths.
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Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 9:08am
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"But there is a majesty to these behemoths"
Few will dissagree with that
The the kerosene tractor and the dyno smoker.
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Posted By: gary ny
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 9:10am
| What did an A sell for new? and Did Allis have a package like they did with wc and rc where you could get plows with it for a set price |
Posted By: JW in MO
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 9:36am
| If you have access to a Spring 2000 Old Allis News there was an article on the A that had a copy of the original invoice, will look at mine tonight to make sure but think it showed a list price of $1,295.00 but I have problems with memory. Like Mark Twain stated, "I remember things whether they happened or not." |
Posted By: JW in MO
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 6:46pm
That article shows the invoice in July, 1937, list price $1,495.00. A 28" X 46" Thresher was $1,240.00
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gary ny wrote:Posted By: Bill Long
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 7:35pm
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They are a neat unit.
Remember the B sold for less than $ 600 in our area the farms were not that big and you could make do with one. WC sold for less than $ 1000.
 |
Posted By: David Maddux
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 9:11pm
| Butch: Did you bring that first A just to pull that Western Flyer wagon? |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 9:59pm
Sharp eyes there Mr. Maddux.
I kint get way wit nutten on here, LOL
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Posted By: Skyhighballoon(MO)
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 10:04pm
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Butch no you can't...we make a sport of it don't we????? LOL! Mike
------------- 1981 Gleaner F2 Corn Plus w 13' flex 1968 Gleaner EIII w 10' & 330 1969 180 gas 1965 D17 S-IV gas 1963 D17 S-III gas 1956 WD45 gas NF PS 1956 All-Crop 66 Big Bin 303 wire baler, 716H, 712H mowers |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 15 May 2010 at 6:18am
| I doubt that A has the power to put the wagon! But he probley backed over some little kids wagon and did not know it was stuck under ther. LOL |