What not to do to a engine rebuild!
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=122256
Printed Date: 19 Aug 2025 at 11:35pm
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Topic: What not to do to a engine rebuild!
Posted By: Don(MO)
Subject: What not to do to a engine rebuild!
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2016 at 9:49pm
Here's a Wd45 gas engine that the owner tried to rebuild after reading on a diff tractor site just what to do, can you tell some of the things he might have done wrong. He is a nice guy just got some bad INFO and that's going to cost him more money. I hate to see this crap.     
------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Replies:
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2016 at 9:53pm
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I forgot to add the oil pan still leaked after the goop spread on the block/pan.
------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2016 at 10:14pm
| bet a green person told him all this! |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2016 at 10:16pm
| try to find the forum where he got that info, and we'll all converge on it! |
Posted By: Mikez
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2016 at 10:38pm
| Wow |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2016 at 10:42pm
| What's that around the sleeves and on the freeze plug? |
Posted By: acd21man
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2016 at 10:50pm
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sad that someone done this. but i cant help but think what the parts store thought when he came in and bought all the gasket glue lol ------------- 2 wd 45,2 D-17 diesel/gas 3 pt, 220,d21, 4020,2 4430s used daily http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCudh8Xz9_rZHhUC3YNozupw |
Posted By: Mikez
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2016 at 10:53pm
| Yea and said was doing an engine job |
Posted By: Orange Tractors
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2016 at 11:33pm
I've never done a wet sleeved engine, yet, but I have overhauled more than a few gasoline engines; both small and automotive. New gaskets peeking out look okay, globs of silicone oozing unevenly from various places ruin the pride of a job well done. Robert |
CrestonM wrote:Posted By: Jordan(OH)
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2016 at 11:37pm
| We don't need no stinking gasket set! |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 5:19am
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I am with you Don, hate to see it. Obviously the guy spent a lot of time cleaning and spent money on new parts then messed the whole deal up. Many years ago a 350 HP 396 Chevy engine came into my shop that was in identical shape except the main and rod caps were all blue/ Most everything the guy spent $$ had to be replaced after 10 lbs of silicone and Teflon tape bits plugged up the oil screen on the maiden voyage. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 5:25am
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Wow! Pretty scary stuff! Well, back to the drawing board..... That engine is in good hands now!! ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 5:43am
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Looks like Never-Seize on the liners? ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 7:28am
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I have not pulled the cam to look at it yet but the one shot is the rear cam plug and it has had the paint burnt off it, so it might be just drove in to hard but it's burnt the paint and that's wrong. I know what site posted the use of silicone on sleeve installing (the clown said to use lots of it on and around the sleeves)and at the time I read this it was hard not to start posting on there just to stop this crap from being spread. the owner used Ultra Gray Silicone around the sleeves and in the O-ring grooves without using the O-rings. I'm not putting this on the owner, he was just doing what was posted to do and that's BAD INFO. The coolant was running down the sleeves after all the crap around the sleeves because the block was broken and had a bolt holding in place. The oil pump screen is covered with silicone. All I can say is sad! ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 7:37am
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A lot of people think they can read something and that what ever they do is going to work. Some of this stuff that comes in to My Shop sometimes is unreal . ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 8:06am
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Don, Thanks for posting things like this. A lot of us work on our own stuff and having a expert like you point out what not to do is almost as good as what needs to be done right. Thanks for taking the time to put these pictures up. I wondered what that burnt mark was on the soft plug. So that's from rubbing on the end of the cam? Just some sloppy work with the silicone all over the block to pan gasket area. Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 8:09am
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Someone needed to ask him, "did it look that way when it came from the factory?" Obviously this guy got his advice from some real experts. |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 8:11am
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Needed a couple more tubes of RTV and he would be good to go. I do find it strange that if he took the engine apart and found no RTV why he thought it was good to put it together with a gallon of the stuff. Even if he was steered in the wrong direction the engine worked for 50 years as is. ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: BenGiBoy
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 9:02am
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I'm taking notes! ------------- '39 Model B Tractors are cheaper than girls, remember that! |
Posted By: TedBuiskerN.IL.
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 9:07am
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I think all of us have learned by a mistake or two, I know I have. ------------- Most problems can be solved with the proper application of high explosives. |
Posted By: BenGiBoy
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 9:16am
I think that you're right. We just need to learn from others mistakes, instead of making them again to 'test if it works for me' Some good lessons here...... ------------- '39 Model B Tractors are cheaper than girls, remember that! |
Posted By: IBWD MIke
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 9:21am
| He obviously did not watch your oil pan video! These engines aren't cheap to overhaul, can't believe someone goes to the expense then does that. |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 10:09am
| Give him a break guys! He was just misinformed. Flame the teacher! (And no I didnt do it). |
Posted By: Jordan(OH)
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 10:50am
| Wait, is that panky's engine you're rebuilding? |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 11:06am
| its pretty scarey about the the info out there on the internet, when you are looking for info that you dont know any thing about it makes bad info look right bad info looks right, and that can really mess things up for a guy. on here if info gets a little twisted someone will get it straightend out. this is one place that has good trusted info from many experts |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 11:15am
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You can not always learn the CORRECT way by Typing and Reading ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 11:24am
As far as the advice Don's customer got, SMH! ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 11:25am
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I have said many times that a person has to understand what they know. Within what you know are all those little details that some think are not all that important. As the story goes! Jack told me that he talked to Pete who was told by Mike that actually watched James overhaul his engine and said those details were not all that important. Just do it this way and it will be fine. I was so blessed that I was able to have garage owner mechanics willing to point out details to check back in the 50's and beyond just to be helpful. I still forgot some and was reminded after a failure or more. Actual learning comes from doing and redoing. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 11:34am
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GEES... the guy got BAD advice on the other site and NOBODY bothered to jump in and correct it ? Cant see that happening here ! ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 12:41pm
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Guys please don't think the owner of this one is all that wrong in how he went at the rebuild, he was just doing what was posted and didn't have lots of engine rebuilds under his belt, he spent the money for good parts and outside labor it was just the installation of the parts and bad help that got him in trouble, I will get him fixed up in no time. I posted this so we can all try to remember to tell a new wrench how to do something. We all started out not knowing "how-to" at one time and I'm still learning. know I'll be more careful on what I type from now on. ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: BenGiBoy
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 1:28pm
I was not picking on the re-builder, I am sorry if it came across that way.  ------------- '39 Model B Tractors are cheaper than girls, remember that! |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 1:51pm
|
Don Thanks for posting that it is sad to see someone who doesn't know and tries to do the right thing end up there from bad advice. I have had similar things happen to me and had to repair enough things I paid someone to do who didn't know what they where doing. It reminds me how lucky I am to have a mechanic I can trust now. I take things there and alot of the time I stay and help with the repair to learn how it should be done. Glad to know he will get it fixed right this time. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 3:04pm
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This 'thread' should be shown to EVERYONE even thinking about rebuilding an engine, ANY engine. It is sad to see the huge amount of time and money wasted when 'step number one' was missed. Read the OEM manual ! There's reasons WHY Allis-Chalmers and others do things at the factory. They will do it as cheap as possible BUT they also make sure it is reliable. The silliycone where orings should be is a great example. At least reading /looking at OEM pictures would be useful. Yup, I'm guilty of lightly using gasket maker in a tube and my own 'cork' gasket vs, the official A-C $$$ gasket for the rockshaft, but I KNEW mine would work fine but IN the engine, pay the piper and do it right the first time. Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Ted in NE-OH
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 3:43pm
If a little goo is good, a little more is better and a whole lot must be a whole lot better. ------------- CA, WD, C, 3 Bs, 2 Gs, WC, I-400, 914 |
Posted By: Ted in NE-OH
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 3:49pm
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If we are going to learn from mistakes, I hope they are someone else's mistakes. ------------- CA, WD, C, 3 Bs, 2 Gs, WC, I-400, 914 |
Posted By: KY poorboy
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 3:51pm
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A bought lesson is a learned lesson. I know I have bought many lessons in my time. And still learning every day. I can see how that happened, he was just doing what was suggested. Whatever site he got the info from must have a lot of hot heads and chickens on it if folks were scared to speak up and correct the guy that posted that. |
Posted By: mdm1
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 5:10pm
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Education is expensive but if nothing is done wrong sometimes someone will not learn. I give the guy a lot of credit bringing it to someone to have it redone and not say his neighbor did it for him. At least the man tried. This is the reason I can't do a rebuild, not enough knowledge. ------------- Everything is impossible until someone does it! WD45-trip loader 1947 c w/woods belly mower, 1939 B, #3 sickle mower 1944 B, 2 1948 G's. Misc other equipment that my wife calls JUNK! |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 6:25pm
It DOES resemble the tennessee scud...
|
Posted By: marion
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 8:12pm
| I have paid good money to people in business for 40 years that came back worse than that before I finally found somebody that knows what their doing. being in business for 40 or 50 years has no bearing on knowing what your doing. I would like my next father-in-law to have a nice machine shop. |
Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 9:49pm
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Don, I really think you should make a point of posting these mistakes on that other website to help educate those that are not educated in rebuilding these engines. The fools that provided this misinformation to the tractor owner should be singled out and shamed for how little they know. ------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '63 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080 |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 10:12pm
I have thought about going on there and doing just that but I'm thinking all it will do is make them mad at me for poking my nose in their site. All i was trying to do with this post was let guys know that some for the INFO that's out there may or may-not be good. Kind of like the old saying buyer be wear.  ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: Orange Tractors
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 11:54pm
Well said Don. I remember several years ago trying to explain to a guy how to adjust valve lash on a Kubota L175 on the other orange tractor website. Since the advent of hydraulic lifters in automobiles, there aren't a lot of people that know how to do it, and more importantly, explain it clearly, off the top of their heads. Sometimes a little procedure that takes about ten minutes to do in real life takes three days to explain over the internet. Robert |
Posted By: Lon(MN)
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2016 at 5:57am
| What parts did you need to replace of the new parts he bought? |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2016 at 6:21am
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Good question Lon, I have not pulled the engine all the way down yet, I know the block is bad so after the replacement block shows up I will strip the old one down then I will know the full list of bad parts.
------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2016 at 7:16am
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There is NO FIX for what people get told or read that is BAD INFORMATION ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2016 at 7:32am
Fred this is dead on! We run into this all the time on old tractors that what I call the "The first timer" trying to find the INFO on the web or the coffee shop, I'm bad about not posting how I do the repair on here sometimes because I'm not ready for the no you are wrong coming back at me. ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2016 at 8:42am
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I don't think that would happen on here Don! What you have ALWAYS done is in the best interest of us and Allis. Might get a few "here's an easier way" of "here's a shortcut" but I don't think of the "no you are wrong" from any of us on here!! You are one of our experts!! I can't imagine how this poor guy feels....... He was just trying to do the right thing, but got nothing but BAD INFORMATION! ------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2016 at 8:44am
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Good post Don. I learned many years ago, that learning is a learning experience. When I started out workin in a factory, I ran a press and we had to do our own insert replacement to keep the dies working right. Inserts were made by trainees and run thru heat treat and never finish ground to specs. When I came across something I didn't know about, I always asked at least 3 different guys on the floor for their opinions. One guy, I learned right away, "knew it all and could tell you exactly what to do". That was the first guy that got crossed off my list when asking for help later. Another guy would look at my last strip out of the die and say, " I think if you did so and so, it would make a better part. That guy ended up "learning me" a LOT about how and when to do different adjustments. I only worked that job for 2 months, but learned more in that time, then what the guy that "knew it all" ever knew about progression dies. I left that job to go work in the tool room cause the tool room foreman knew of my work and sometimes watched me from a distance when I took a die apart and fixed it. If you take 3 or more opinions and think about it, you can sometimes find the best of all and blend them to come up with a good fix. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: allischalmerguy
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2016 at 10:52am
Me too! ------------- It is great being a disciple of Jesus! 1950 WD, 1957 D17...retired in Iowa, |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2016 at 11:08am
| that's why this "misfit" posts some of the things I does/ have did, so's ya'll can learn from my mistakes and conquests! lol |
Posted By: mdm1
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2016 at 6:26pm
|
As I told my son more than once. Another learning experience! His reply was-Dad I must be the smartest man in the world by now! ------------- Everything is impossible until someone does it! WD45-trip loader 1947 c w/woods belly mower, 1939 B, #3 sickle mower 1944 B, 2 1948 G's. Misc other equipment that my wife calls JUNK! |
Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2016 at 10:39am
  ------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
Posted By: mdm1
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2016 at 3:56pm
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Thanks Ted! ------------- Everything is impossible until someone does it! WD45-trip loader 1947 c w/woods belly mower, 1939 B, #3 sickle mower 1944 B, 2 1948 G's. Misc other equipment that my wife calls JUNK! |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2016 at 7:06am
| That's some good advice ctucker |