616 ccka wiring issues
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Garden Tractors
Forum Description: A great place to discuss the Simplicity and Allis Chalmers Garden Models
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=121111
Printed Date: 10 Nov 2024 at 3:10pm
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Topic: 616 ccka wiring issues
Posted By: coggonobrien
Subject: 616 ccka wiring issues
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2016 at 2:14pm
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Just looing for some help, I'm having trouble getting 616#2 fired up after the wiring harness replacment. I am not getting volt's to the starter solenoid from the key. I checked continuity from the key female plug to the neutral safety switch and the wire is good and again from the neutral safety to the starter and I was good there. I bypassed the safety switch and occasionally getting it to turn over. I can run the starter wire direct to the battery and it fires right up. can it be anything besides the ignition switch? Also is there adjustment to the neutral safety switch? Finally with the key in the run possition and the red/blue wires that run the charge/ignition circuits I have 12 volts already. Do I have something hooked up wrong? Thanks David
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Replies:
Posted By: ShaunE
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2016 at 4:14pm
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It definitely sounds like the key switch to me. Hopefully Steve will chime in.
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Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2016 at 5:23pm
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Probably is key switch. They are pretty mickey mouse for what they should be. ------------- No greater gift than healthy grandkids! |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2016 at 5:38pm
| I ordered a pair from Steve today one for each garden tractors hopefully that's all it is |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2016 at 2:14pm
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I got two switches headed your way Dave! I can't keep these switches in stock. I stock 4 at a time. Just got 5 in last week cause I had a run on em', and I got one left. And these are OEM Briggs switches. It may be time to move to a "real" switch for these machines. These OEM switches ain't cuttin' it. These are a tough machine, I think I need to spec out a tough Ignition switch. What do you guys think? Tracy is right. They are Mickey Mouse/whimpy switches for the application. Its like the whimpy switches they used in the early "D" series Tractors. What a joke... Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2016 at 9:38pm
| remember those switches have been rained and snowed on for forty years taking some of the load off that switch would help, like steves with the use of relays |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2016 at 6:58am
| I'd agree Steve, might be time for an upgrade but I guess the originals did last 40 years. How are you coming on your alternator kit? |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2016 at 8:34am
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I'll bet they've been replaced many times in those 40 years tho. I've been busier than a one arm paper hanger lately in the wire shop. Really haven't had the time to even look at the 620. Besides, its been to cold to work out in the barn yet anyway. Started on it last fall developing a couple different designs. I can up with another design over the Winter months on paper. Didn't do anything wit' that yet either... ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2016 at 10:58am
i willl agree there is always room for improvement most of my own stuff sure isnot stock anymore but on the repair shop side its allways nice to be able look up the right parts get them ordered and get them installed and out the door with oe parts you can warranty my 616 wire harnass sure isnot stock any more still has the ccka in it but still has original key switch the rest have been replaced 
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Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2016 at 11:00am
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Hud, with the ccka can you give me a description on the charging/ignition system as far as which wire should have 12volts and when that should happen (key off, key run, key start)? Mine has the original big box regulator/rectifier. Thanks David |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 10:45pm
| will take a minet to look and see if i can find the the changes that i made to cckb /720 schematic |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2016 at 8:09am
| Well the new switch made no difference. Can I get a diagram of the ignition switch terminals |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2016 at 3:13pm
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Just jumping in cause it's snowing here.... IF the engine has point and coil it NEEDS a different switch than one that has a mag(or two) !! I found that out the hard way. Those INDAK switches come in 15-20+ 'configurations' and I NEVER seem to have the right one from my box of 30 good switches... Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2016 at 3:36pm
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switch came from Steve, here is today's notes for you happy folks. The dash is loose, should it be grounded? all wires are color matched to original harness yellow to battery positive with 20 amp circuit breaker key in off position black (has fuse) +12v all others 0 volts key in run position black, blue, red +12v white 0volt key in run position all 4 wires 12 volts i hook white up to starter and nothing, i run lead from starter solenoid to battery + and it turns over fine
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Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2016 at 3:37pm
| also the clock has power to it but the - terminal is not grounded. where should it be grounded |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2016 at 10:17pm
| do you still have the same pto switches and nuetral switch ? |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2016 at 6:41am
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Dave, Sounds like you have a break in one of the circuits. By-pass the safety switches for testing purposes. Should be power up front with the key on. Also, check for a break in the wiring around the engine area. The wires on my 620 down around the VR area were cooked. The "clock" you mentioned about, are you referring to the hour meter? If so, the hour meter ground pigtail connected to a nearby dash bolt. Make sure that dash is grounded! That switch grounds through the dash. Also check for Ammeter function. Had a customer not to long ago had a similar problem. Turned out to be faulty Ammeter. If you need help with a wiring diagram, I could help ya with the wiring layout. The 616 is wired a little differently than the 620/720 Tractors in a few area's. Those switches are the correct OEM switches for the Tractors. They're Indak switches made for Briggs & Stratton/Simplicity. HTH Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2016 at 7:04am
| Steve, I did a continuity test from the starter wire at the key switch down and I was good. Is there more than just the hydrostat lever neutral safety switch? The dash is unbolted and loose so maybe that is the problem. I think I will run a new ground for the hour meter with a longer lead so I can tie it somewhere more permanently. |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2016 at 9:03pm
| Hey Steve, just an fyi but the headlights and dummy lights all function correctly |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2016 at 9:11pm
| Hey Steve, just an fyi but the headlights and dummy lights all function correctly |
Posted By: coggonobrien
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2016 at 11:05am
| ok I ran a new wire from the neutral safety switch and tied it into the green wire on the switch which comes from the rear pto and we are good now. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2016 at 12:11pm
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Ahhhh! I knew you had a problem there somewhere with one of those switches! Just had to find that booger. Good job Dave! Sometimes the silly stuff makes ya pull yer' hair out! ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |