D19 Diesel engine work
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=120643
Printed Date: 16 Oct 2024 at 7:17am
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Topic: D19 Diesel engine work
Posted By: Don(MO)
Subject: D19 Diesel engine work
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2016 at 7:33pm
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Started removing the engine for a little engine rebuild, this one will be getting 6 NOS pistons and sleeves,gasket set, ex-manifold and a hand full of more NOS parts the owner has just for this tractor. It's nice installing NOS parts again just like it was back in the good old days. Like all jobs you have to start somewhere. lol  ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Replies:
Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2016 at 8:43pm
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Nice looking tractor. I am sure it's in good hands now!
------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080 |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2016 at 6:42pm
Pulled the head off and all six sleeves are down to low so I'm thinking the block will get decked and counter bores re-cut so the engine is coming out, no quickie in-frame on this one.        
------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2016 at 8:24am
| Don is that considered a PC head? Leon Cmo |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2016 at 9:59am
| Sorta,,Lanova is diff than than other pre cup systems |
Posted By: FHOliver
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2016 at 1:44pm
| Don, Ive wanted to thank you for some time now for the great info and pics. It helps tons of guys. Also have a D19 story to share. 1978 I worked in a dealer and we did a lot of work for one farmer who was all allis. His d19 had 10,000 hrs on it and i mean they were hard hrs. he wasnt exactly gentle. It limped in on about 4 cylinders and I rebuilt it for the first time, eng never was touched before. The block was so bad cracked and low sleeves and everything you could think of was wrong. We just orderd a new block and it showed up in 3 days from batavia ill. dont remember cost. Dont ya wish we had a crystal ball and ordered extras ha ha. I Uncrated it, steam cleaned it, and carried block to shop area. later looked at shipping papers and block alone was between 280 and 300 lbs. I never could pick one up again !!!! More muscle than brain back then not a lot of either now !! all new injector tips and beautiful rebuild , cuople hrs on dyno and she was a sweetheart |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2016 at 12:09am
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Leon the short answer is yes it's a PC head and Steve is spot on it's a little bit diff, I will try to find the video of the Lanova head setup and post it. Frank nice story about replacement engine and funny you posted about installing one in a D19, this D19 engine is a replacement two. I have not nor will I try to lift one of them up.lol ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2016 at 1:52am
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I didn't find the video I was looking for but this might help you understand better how the Allis Chalmers Buba Diesel head works. Lanova systems and most pre-cup Diesel systems are a little bit diff but this will give you some idea how it fires. I hope. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll3eK_EvsBE" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll3eK_EvsBE ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: FHOliver
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2016 at 9:53am
| Don, in hindsight I didnt mean to hijack the thread. please keep pics coming, Also how can you tell its a replacement ? lack of serial # ? |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2016 at 10:42am
First off you didn't hijack.  Yes the lack of the ser # is one way to tell.------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
FHOliver wrote:Posted By: Skyhighballoon(MO)
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2016 at 3:29pm
Don. That tractor will sure be one the owner can crow about when you get it done.  Mike------------- 1981 Gleaner F2 Corn Plus w 13' flex 1968 Gleaner EIII w 10' & 330 1969 180 gas 1965 D17 S-IV gas 1963 D17 S-III gas 1956 WD45 gas NF PS 1956 All-Crop 66 Big Bin 303 wire baler, 716H, 712H mowers |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2016 at 5:02pm
Mike the tractor owners like you and the nice guy that own this tractor's make my job a piece of cake. I can't name who my customers are in-less they let me, I'll bet he will let me sometime. lol ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: DonDittmar
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2016 at 5:35pm
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I've been there ------------- Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity" 1968 D15D,1962 D19D Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start |
Posted By: Michael Crowe
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2016 at 10:22pm
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Don, no harm in disclosing its my tractor. I'm looking forward to using it with the new motor. ------------- The 14th Annual Exclusive AC Swap Meet will be held in Boonville, MO, March 7-8, 2025. See the club website for details: http://www.moacclub.com/ |
Posted By: ac45dave
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2016 at 10:45pm
all i can say, it's in the best hands it could be in. ------------- 54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2016 at 10:59pm
| Hmmmmm. Is there some puns going on here that Michael "Crowe" should be able to "crow" about this tractor when it's done? I am envious "in a good way" of this project. BTW, nice talking to you this morning Don, and I will definitely be getting back to you soon. Darrel |
Posted By: OnlyAC
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2016 at 10:26am
| Any update on this project or progress pictures. I have a D19 Diesel that runs really rough until it warms up and I feel like I will need to do a rebuild on it as well. |
Posted By: TomMN
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2016 at 11:37am
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Since the Lanova system is being discussed here I can post a picture we took of the cut-away WD45 diesel head and air-cell with an injector firing. The main portion of the fuel pulse is directed into the air-cell. Since the stream flows across the combustion chamber in the head some of the outer mist from the injector misses the air-cell hole and ignites there. The piston is still on its way up during the injection pulse so the beginning of the flame in the combustion chamber enters the air-cell igniting the fuel there. All that exploding pressure is metered out through the orifice of the air-cell. You can see that the WD45 air-cell has two spherical chambers with metered orifices, not sure if the D19 air-cells are the same. I put together what information I could find on the Lanova system back in 2006 when I was working on mine. Here is a link to that: http://www.allis01.com/fossto/Lanova_System.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.allis01.com/fossto/Lanova_System.html  |
Posted By: TomMN
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2016 at 11:44am
One more fun picture of the Lanova cycle. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2016 at 9:15pm
Tom that's a nice cut away and tells the story way better that I can, good job. Thanks for posting it. ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2016 at 9:31pm
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I had some time this week to dig into the D19 and found some rounded camshaft lobs and lifters cupped, crankshaft will be getting reground, block decked and counter bores re-cut. It's a good thing the owner has lots of NOS parts for the D19. Looks like one more total rebuild.       ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 8:22am
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Don, Your right into it now! Great pictures of what to look for on these engines. Thanks for posting the pictures. I love the before and after stuff and the inspection work needed to determine next moves. What are the big items that folks cant get any more for these engines? Is there a list of things that you just cant get as remans? Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 8:39am
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Well Chris the list of part that can't be found new or rebuilt is long for the D19 engines, it's a hunt for parts for the 230/262's gas or Diesel. Right now it's a hunt for piston/sleeve kits, things like the cam just are not in-stock even from AGCO. That's what makes them so much fun to rebuilt and I like the parts hunt. lol
------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: OnlyAC
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 9:23am
| Well, I'm starting to get an uneasy feeling about mine now. My Dad had purchased my D19 and he is no longer with us. It has always misfired when cold but looking at all the problems they seem to have and the lack of parts, this is going to be an extremely tough restoration. Thank you for documenting all the problems with yours so I will know what to look for when I tear in to it. |
Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 9:48am
All 262 diesels run on the rough side when you start them up. No need to rebuild it because of that. Mine had 200 hours on a rebuild and was (still is) like that when I bought it. Put it to work after a few minutes and it runs great. Lots of power and very little smoke. ------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080 |
Posted By: OnlyAC
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 10:42am
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Well I know at least 1 cylinder if not 2 have low compression and don't fire until it warms up. We have had the injectors tested and they are fine. Makes it a bear to start even in warm weather. Without removing The head, are there any symptoms that would indicate that the sleeves have dropped? I'm worried that its going to look like the one Don is working on now and I don't want to hurt the engine before I get a chance to fix it. ------------- AC list: B-10 | B-112 | WC | WD45 | D12 | D14 high-crop | D17 gas | D17 Diesel | D19 gas | D19 Diesel | 185 | |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 11:37am
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I can say the only symptom mine gave from dropped sleeves is leaking head gasket. After seeing that other mess that was brought to Don to straighten out, makes me wish I had take pics of my 262 as I took it apart. It didn't have the bad rookie advice that Don's customer got, but it had some bad machine/assembly work. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: TramwayGuy
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 12:44pm
| Has anyone ever tried to use shims under the sleeve flange to raise them up? Or maybe there's no such thing? |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 12:49pm
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Don't let some of the stuff that I run into stop you from rebuilding yours, parts are still out there you just haft to look harder now.lol Older engines just need more help, just like older men need more help than we did years ago. lmao ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2016 at 10:30pm
If you could see how narrow the flange is,you would understand that a shim is about out of question. Don,if you get a chance,could you post a pic of either the sleeve or the counterbore to show how minute it is? |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2016 at 6:12am
Steve is spot on, the counter bore flange is to narrow on the Buda engines for shims to stay put. I have a three tractors coming to the shop for work today so I will take some shots of the block and post them tonight. ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: Mottwelding
Date Posted: 22 May 2016 at 2:15pm
| This thread is awesome now where can we find the parts to fix this engine? will decking and recutting the block fix this problem for good? I won't mind dropping the cash if it fixes it for good. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 22 May 2016 at 6:35pm
| I'd say it's fixed "for good" as long as you never pull a plow or disc again. The problem is the design.....the flange lip isn't substantial enough to keep the sleeve up where it belongs if it is an engine that is required to produce high HP levels all the time. To be really honest, I'd be willing to bet none of those turbo-diesel D-19's ever made it past 3,000 hrs of use before there was a blown head gasket, IF THEY WERE USED ON A PLOW AND DISC ALL THE TIME. Many were already in a salvage yard when they were 10 or 15 years old because the engine problems were so bad. |
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 22 May 2016 at 7:28pm
| Don I appreciate you getting back to me on this head and it was an interesting read that was posted. Never worked on one of these engines but I am familiar with the 1693 Cat which were a PC engine and I just loved the sound of that old motor. But they were a smoker, especially if let set and idle a while. I was wondering if some of the cam builders would build a cam for this engine? I know that if you want some kind of a special cam grind that they will do it for you. I know that Egge out of California will build special and out of stock pistons for automotive application and I just wonder if they would build these pistons? I don't think that making a liner would be much of a problem. And probably truth be known wouldn't cost a whole lot more than going down to Agco if they were available. I've got to go back up and look at the deck and see if there is enough room to make that lip a few 1000's deeper a wider. Maybe a solution? Leon R Cmo |
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 22 May 2016 at 7:49pm
| OOOeee, green goo! Well Don, looked at that head and if a wider flange liner could be made to fit it wouldn't be much would it? And Doc, I agree, if Allis ever made a piece of crap motor this had to be it. Or maybe Big Al with the wrong application. (trucks) But at least they could be fixed and then you had something. Certainly by this you can see why AC started to build a bad reputation. It doesn't take much, and then all the competitors start to jump on the crippled animal to make their product not look so bad and there you go. I think if they had beefed the block up a bit they wouldn't have had to change a thing and problem solved. This is a case of not getting out of the box. Leon R Cmo |
Posted By: Mottwelding
Date Posted: 22 May 2016 at 8:14pm
| I though when you deck it and cut a counter bore you made that lip bigger by machine by .020 or something so the sleeve has a good sized lip to sit on, all this talk makes me start looking at a 4bt or the 301 engine swap cause its prob about 5-8 grand to rebuild this engine depending on where you live and for that I could find a pretty sweet perkins or kubota and get and adaptor plate made up. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 22 May 2016 at 8:21pm
| A-C's "fix" was a sleeve flange .020" or .030" TALLER, which allowed you to recut the counter bores deeper, saving the day with a new square ledge only deeper into the block. Sad part about this engine was, before A-C owned it, there was no sleeve....it was a bored block. |
Posted By: Mottwelding
Date Posted: 22 May 2016 at 8:30pm
| alright ok well I'm no machinist but could a guy re bore the block and get a set of pistons made for that? I just got this tractor free and wanna fix it up to use a 3 bottom low, discern and front loader on 400 acres i just got, I would buy another tractor one day but for 10K you can't get much and I would rather just make this work. I see guys maybe do a 301 engine in there, just no point in dropping money on sleeve, pistons and all the machining if you cannot even use the thing i might aswell run it till it blows!, sorry I'm not trying to hi jack the thread, this is the best info I've found in 40 hrs digging on the net. Thank you!! |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 22 May 2016 at 8:44pm
no. they were bored for wet sleeve. so nothing left where sleeves fits except top and bottom ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 22 May 2016 at 10:04pm
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Just a question, Could those sleeves be silver soldered in the top deck?
------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 23 May 2016 at 6:00am
| There ya go!! Furnace braze sleeves in the block,top&bottom. |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 23 May 2016 at 7:44am
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I think most AC people who buy d19's do it for sentimental or collector value not for a working tractor. There are also those of us who dont realize what we got into until we already have it. ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: Big Orange
Date Posted: 23 May 2016 at 7:48am
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The D19s used A different cam in some engines. By the the picture this is one with that cam.The pistons have to match the the cam or the int valve will hit the pistons. |
Posted By: Mottwelding
Date Posted: 26 May 2016 at 8:59pm
| I have read the 301 came in the 185 and it was around the same HP as the 262, i think it was 72 hp or something, or the 200 engine out of a f2 gleaner combine for swaps other then the 262. Im gonna use this tractor for minor discing and blowing and road building, tree removal on my 400 acres. Id rather do all the work on an engine swap then rebuild this engine if it cannot be worked, I've searched the internet high and low and found no build threads on this or really any info, does anyone know about engine swaps. rebuilding the 262 would be fine if it fixed it but i don't have a tractor to not use it. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 9:11pm
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Well after months for looking and finding all the right parts and then being put on hold for the block and head to be rebuilt the D19 is running again. Here's some pics of the engine work. Here's short video of it running. Tell me what you think if her running. http://vid242.photobucket.com/albums/ff105/SkiRat03/Michael%20Crowes%20D19%20engine%20work%202016/Michel%20Crowe%20D19%20095_zpsscgllynf.mp4" rel="nofollow - http://vid242.photobucket.com/albums/ff105/SkiRat03/Michael%20Crowes%20D19%20engine%20work%202016/Michel%20Crowe%20D19%20095_zpsscgllynf.mp4        
------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: Michael Crowe
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 9:54pm
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Don it looks and sounds great; can't wait to get it home so I can mow with it. ------------- The 14th Annual Exclusive AC Swap Meet will be held in Boonville, MO, March 7-8, 2025. See the club website for details: http://www.moacclub.com/ |
Posted By: Skyhighballoon(MO)
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2016 at 10:10pm
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Michael - I was a few days too short of hearing it run in person when I was at Don's last Saturday to pick up my 1300 field cultivator. It looked good going back together, Don hadn't got to the sheet metal yet but was working on the engine front installing the power steering pump.
------------- 1981 Gleaner F2 Corn Plus w 13' flex 1968 Gleaner EIII w 10' & 330 1969 180 gas 1965 D17 S-IV gas 1963 D17 S-III gas 1956 WD45 gas NF PS 1956 All-Crop 66 Big Bin 303 wire baler, 716H, 712H mowers |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2016 at 3:56am
| Don once again you did an amazing job. Like others I love reading these threads I always learn something new. |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2016 at 6:50am
| Everything looks great and it runs like a top. I think the D19's are very cool, just for what they were in history. Like many others, it's too bad they are so difficult to find part for. Thanks for posting the pictures. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2016 at 8:37am
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Thanks guys. It takes a lot of time to over haul a Buba 230/262 engine and make it right, they are a lot like building a race engine, "that will work" is not they way to it, buckets of money and days of labor check and recheck. I like rebuilding them and they seam to find there way to the shop for help.lol
------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: OnlyAC
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2016 at 9:01am
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That looks great! Sure sounds a lot better than the one I have. Makes me wish I lived closer to Missouri so I could have you take a look at mine. ------------- AC list: B-10 | B-112 | WC | WD45 | D12 | D14 high-crop | D17 gas | D17 Diesel | D19 gas | D19 Diesel | 185 | |