Farm Equipment - D17D Engine Update

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D17D Engine Update

Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11973
Printed Date: 30 Jan 2025 at 6:16pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com

Topic: D17D Engine Update

Posted By: GregLawlerMinn
Subject: D17D Engine Update
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 5:47pm

Got the oil pan off and the piston out. Whatever caused the damage to the top of the piston came from above the piston top. Sizable damage to piston. The sleeve also had some dameage, so will be pulling the sleeve and installing a new one.

Pictures of the #4 piston:

http://www.allischalmers.com/new/forum/uploads/281/CIMG0861.JPG -

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What this country needs is more unemployed politicians-and lawyers.
Currently have: 1 D14 and a D15S2.
With new owners: 2Bs,9CAs,1WD,2 D12s,5D14s,3D15S2s, 2D17SIVs,D17D,1D19D;1 Unstyled WC

Replies:

Posted By: GregLawlerMinn
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 5:54pm

Drated phat phingers; Additional pictures

Measured the liner stickout and piston stickout with a dial indicator. Liner stickout ranged from 0 to .002"; Piston stickout ranged from .015 to .030. The measurements were taken on the 5 undamaged pistons. Still havee not heard from the head rebuilder, but am hoping the the Alum piston absorbed the damage, not the head.

Link to the previous post on this subject is below for those interested:

http://www.allischalmers.com/new/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11907&title=d17d-engine-rework-update - http://www.allischalmers.com/new/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11907&title=d17d-engine-rework-update

Posted By: Chris/CT
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 6:00pm

I assume the injector was in good shape, nothing fell off it?

Posted By: DREAM
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 6:07pm

Wow, that got beaten to crap! I can't tell what that is, but it kinda looks like a valve stem locking clip. No way that could have gotten in there from where it is supposed to be, unless someone dropped one in the intake manifold or somewhere in the air cleaner when they were working on the tractor. That may have actually been what happenned. I have had screws, nuts, and bolts do that before. i would take all of the intake system apart all the way out to the air intake and see if there's something missing somewhere.

Posted By: GregLawlerMinn
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 6:09pm

The injector is complete; and what I could see of the energy cell, it is also complete. I did not notice any damage to the valves when I turned the head upside down. As of right now, I believe the damage resulted from the fire ring in the head gasket sliding into the cylinder and being struck by the valve (note the flat steel fragments that look like pieces of a ring that are embedded in the top of the piston). Expect the head rebuilder will be checking the condition of the energy cell as well as the valves. BTW, the small notch on the bottom of the piston was facing towards the front of the engine.

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What this country needs is more unemployed politicians-and lawyers.
Currently have: 1 D14 and a D15S2.
With new owners: 2Bs,9CAs,1WD,2 D12s,5D14s,3D15S2s, 2D17SIVs,D17D,1D19D;1 Unstyled WC

Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 6:22pm

Do you still have the old head gasket? If it was the fire ring responsible, it would be obvious. (Missing) Otherwise, like Dream says look the induction over thoroughly. I recently put a new head on a 6.0L Ford diesel in an Excursion. The guy had just had an EGR cooler replaced on it back home in Colorado before heading east on vacation. He made it to Newton Ia before it developed a dead miss. Turns out the tech in Colorado dropped one of the LH heat shield bracket bolts in the intake port on the left head. Fortunately the head of the bolt was large enough that it didn't get past the valve. The threaded end got flattened out between the valve and seat. The head of the bolt wore a groove under the seat ring ruining the head casting.

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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford

Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 7:26pm

If I am seeing what I think I am .A crack that goes from the top of the piston to the ring lands and the ring lands are bent as it appears. I would tend to think it ingested something harder than a fire ring at some point and time.

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people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra

Posted By: GregLawlerMinn
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 7:36pm

I had a loose (bent) pushrod and I thought it went to #3 hole. When I pulled the head several fire rings fell out of the gasket and I was not paying attention which was from what hole. Will be checking out the air cleaner, preheater, etc to determine if something came out and got past the valve. I only know that there were many small steel parts (a magnet picked up the loose pieces) that look like pieces of a ring or a large skinny flat washer (fairly large dia, thin, and circular) either loose on top of the piston or embedded into the piston and head. Have used the tractor with no issues for the past 4 years and was really impressed with its starting and running.

Posted By: j.w.freck
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 8:47pm

i would bet on a valve seat or part of the valve itself,when you tear the head down it will tell you

Posted By: EricTn
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 8:53pm

Was the bent push rod to the exhaust valve? If so, is it possible that the metal particles could be the exhaust valve seat. I dont know if they are larger diameter than the valve to notice it missing without removing the valve. Just wondering. Eric
JW and I are thinking alike. He's faster than me plus I got interupted before I could hit the send button.

Posted By: GregLawlerMinn
Date Posted: 06 May 2010 at 9:06am

JW and Eric

After looking at the On-Line Allis Parts manual, I agree with your diagnosis as to the culprit. The Diesel Head section shows a ring shaped exhaust valve insert (item 2) and the bent pushrod is for the #4 hole exhaust valve. The examination of the head by the machine shop will confirm this diagnosis if the insert is gone.

Is it possible that many years of ether starting and shutting down the engine while still hot embrittled the insert enuff to break it loose? I have used ether very sparingly as the tractor starts good in cool weather. I installed 2 12 volt batteries in parallel and a tank heater for cold weather starting. When I brought it home it had a single 12 volt battery and the previous owner(s) may have been more anxious to get it started.

Posted By: skipwelte
Date Posted: 06 May 2010 at 11:40am

Ida bet the shapnel was ring peices. A seat usually doesnt come apart like that, valve peices are usually burned and jaged, beside there is a lot of it on top of the piston. Im real curious as to what the cylinder head looks like. Please let us know. Thanks Skip

Posted By: GregLawlerMinn
Date Posted: 06 May 2010 at 4:55pm

Skip

The top of the piston was not broken down to the point that pieces af a ring could get into the firing chamber. The top three rings were fractured, but all the pices were contained in their ring groves..see pictures above. Maybe a previous owner place a larger piston ring on the gasket to replace a fire ring?? Will post report from the machine shop re: the head examination.