Eating Crow
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11589
Printed Date: 26 Jan 2025 at 10:08pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Eating Crow
Posted By: steffensen
Subject: Eating Crow
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2010 at 7:33am
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A few of you know I am an engineer at one of AGCO's divisions and I have posted a couple of times saying we cannot use hersay to state facts. I also said we should wait till the Q1 numbers. Well here is a link to the quarterly reports for CNH, Deere, and AGCO. Also a link to the AGCO webcast on the report today. I looked through them breifly and I have already got my fork and knife ready. Byron, Redline, or GBACBFAN, nice and crispy please. CNH http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9Mzc3OTAyfENoaWxkSUQ9Mzc2ODU3fFR5cGU9MQ==&t=1 - http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9Mzc3OTAyfENoaWxkSUQ9Mzc2ODU3fFR5cGU9MQ==&t=1
Deere
http://www.deere.com/en_US/ir/media/pdf/financialdata/reports/2010/2010_firstquarter_confcallslides.pdf - http://www.deere.com/en_US/ir/media/pdf/financialdata/reports/2010/2010_firstquarter_confcallslides.pdf
AGCO
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9NDI3NDR8Q2hpbGRJRD0tMXxUeXBlPTM=&t=1 - http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9NDI3NDR8Q2hpbGRJRD0tMXxUeXBlPTM=&t=1
Webcast: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=108419&p=irol-eventDetails&EventID=3035099 - http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=108419&p=irol-eventDetails&EventID=3035099
Oh, I better put in a disclaimer also. Even though I am an employee of AGCO, my posts and comments have been my own opinion. Any statments I make are my own, but that is why I wanted to post and own up to it.
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Replies:
Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2010 at 8:12am
WOW NA sales Down 28% from last year. Gee wonder why? I guess Richenhagens remark that "The only people PO'd dont buy AGCo anyway" is a self fulfilling prophecy.
Steff, dont worry about the crow, your man enough to "man up", which is far more than can be said about AGCO upper management. While there will be a lot of "told you so's" I think we all wish it didnt have to come to this sad state of affairs.
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steffensen wrote:Posted By: John (C-IL)
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2010 at 8:58am
| Looks like "you need to make hay while the sun shines". Deere made more money on fewer sales which is interesting. Looks like CNH is still making hay as the rain is falling! The way it looks in my neighborhood I would think that sales will continue to decline as net farm income continues to decrease. AGCO doesn't seem to have positioned themselves very well for the upcoming down market, for that matter they didn't seem to have themselves positioned very well when things were good and everything was selling. |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2010 at 8:58am
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Interesting that these guys all present their data a little differently. But looking just at Ag/Turf equipment, North American sales, Q1 2010 vs Q1 2009, looks like:
AGCO -31% (sales $)
Deere -22% (sales tonnage)
CNH +1% (sales $)
Maybe that I am misreading the reports.......but it looks to me as though CNH had a stronger Q1 in North America than did either AGCO or Deere. And that both Deere and AGCO had really poor sales in the quarter. ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2010 at 9:44am
| Per the conference call, We know that 1Q basically sucked, but look out in 3Q and 4Q as We will be roaring (per Martin and Andy Beck)! We would have done better but those darn competitors held us back. Looks like the order books for MF will be on fire by the end of year! |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2010 at 11:41am
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Nowversatile, I assume you are saying that tongue in cheek? Maybe it's time for Versatile to step up to the plate and buy the orange, Gleaner and Hesston divisions!
------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: redline
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2010 at 12:27pm
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Steffensen, I don't want to have you dine on crow. This debacle isn't your fault. There are a couple of others that should have a nice big steaming serving. None of us want this situation. I would be thrilled to see the orange line succeed and flourish, but they are being held back and stymied at every turn. The problem now is, that even if the Agco brand was reinstated, no one would trust Agco. They have dirtied their nest, and it will require a tremendous amount of butt kissing and ironclad promises to reverse the trend. Firing some management would certainly help. I can only be impressed with your character, Steffensen. Few would have the nerve to come back here to take the possible abuse.------------- If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done! |
Posted By: DREAM
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2010 at 12:37pm
| I'm with Redline. I think AGCO has done in the orange line. I don't think they could bring it back now if they had to. Just as well. Maybe someone with a sound business ethic and appreciation for continuation of heritage could pick up the line and bring it back to its' deserved glory. I could only hope. Steffenson, I admire the fact that you came back on here to discuss these findings. A lot of people with less fortitude would have run. You and others like you are what companies like AGCO need in leadership positions, instead of their current roster. |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2010 at 12:38pm
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Red, he works for AGCO, he must thrive on abuse!
------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2010 at 12:45pm
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Funny how that works. It looks like the "I don't want a Massey" attitude isn't just in my neighborhood... ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2010 at 12:58pm
Amen!. Seems one moves up in AGCO management via the "Peter Principal"
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Posted By: redline
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2010 at 12:58pm
------------- If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done! |
Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2010 at 12:59pm
Tongue in cheek it is! Dittos to Versatile buying these divisions, they may soon have the opportunity!
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Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2010 at 1:15pm
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I don't trust AGCO's numbers. Historically I think they fudge things to make sectors look good to justify moves they want to make. As an example they've put engineering costs on manure spreaders when the design hasn't changed for 20 years. I believe they put the bulk of their administrative, engineering, advertising, overhead, etc. costs on the NA side to make NA look worse that it is. I think it's not a dumb thing to do because of the tax laws but when the tax laws change to include income overseas I think you'll get a different picture. Plus I'm not smart enough and don't really care to learn what all those wall street minded terms mean. Having said that, AGCO really stunk it up. They see positive cash flow by the end of 2010 and I see them getting worse. There are people still buying orange right now but that will end. I mean I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that killing the color that gave you the funds to pursue other colors in a color centric industry is questionable. Doing it while it still outsells your other brands 4 to 1 is mind blowing. Doing it during a recession where every sale is going to count is absolutely crazy. Which lends me to believe Martin is insane. I'm cleaning up my AGCO today or tomorrow so I can take pictures for me to sell it. In my book AGCO is running out of time. I think the orange line can be saved but Martin will have to go and some logic will have to be restored. Like make an AGCO brand with different colors. Make it AGCO/MF, AGCO/Challenger, AGCO/AC, etc. You know my thoughts on this. As a related point, I read the new Advantage magazine and reading between the lines the dealers aren't happy. Out of one side of AGCO's mouth they say were doing it to save money by not having different brands and on the other side they say don't worry parts are ok because their not different at all except in color. So WHERE ARE YOU SAVING MONEY? I'm sure they won't have to advertise AGCO anymore or put out their brochures but if you've paid attention the AGCO brochures, web site, advertisements, etc. they are all sub par to MF and Challenger. So they cut the brand they spend the least on. Go figure. I don't think you have to eat crow cause I don't remember you saying they'd do well. Maybe they'll rebound. I think maybe some of the dealer guys on here who say guys want to buy the latest and greatest and don't want an inexpensive option should look at South America sales. I'm sure those went through the roof because of the peoples tractor. Anyway, I've said way too much. Byron Martin seems to think it doesn't have to do with dropping orange: "In the North American region, sales in the first quarter of 2010 declined approximately 30.5% compared to the first quarter of 2009, excluding favorable currency translation impacts. Working capital initiatives to manage dealer inventory levels and lower sales of utility tractors and hay products produced the decline. " |
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2010 at 1:19pm
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Did you see this Steffensen? http://www.allischalmers.com/new/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11556&title=a-notice-to-our-friends-customers - http://www.allischalmers.com/new/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11556&title=a-notice-to-our-friends-customers |
Posted By: steffensen
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2010 at 4:49pm
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Yes I did. I am very interested to see how that one plays out and if others will follow.
I was busy at work today and didn't take part in listening to the webcast, but I might catch a replay later. I agree with Dave(inMA) for the NA sales of the different companies. The reporting makes things difficult to decipher. I can understand the difference that CNH has because they report different with their headquarters not on US soil. But it is weird that both Deere and AGCO reported differently even though they fill out the same 10k forms.
Thank you guys for not cooking up too much crow for me and for some of the complements. I just want to say that there are a lot of good people that work for AGCO and all of us can only hope things will work out.
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Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2010 at 9:57pm
| Steffensen, I will have to say there is a tremendous crowd of GREAT people who work at AGCO, unfortunately, the trash is at the top. Just a personal guess, but I would bet there would be in the neighborhood of 80-90% of AGCO's employees who see the stupidity of dropping orange. It was Richenhagens decision, not Heineke, Crain, Stucke or any others trying to take the arrows, they are just trying to save their jobs. The company could well do without the dictator and his henchmen such as Doug Griffin, Jason Hoult, Randy Hoffman and others that are rubber stamp brown nosers for the dictator. This click has cost the company millions. |