B Axle leak
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11218
Printed Date: 26 Jan 2025 at 12:19am
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Topic: B Axle leak
Posted By: Charlie175
Subject: B Axle leak
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2010 at 2:47pm
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B Axle oil leak on left side, service manual says to replace the seal, but I am not readily seeing a seal of the normal sorts there. Or am I missing it? When I pulled the wheel off there was grass wound up in there so I am sure that is what caused the leak. How do I go about replacing the seal?  ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Replies:
Posted By: Wes (VA)
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2010 at 2:54pm
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That metal looking ring is the seal. It has the leather material for sealing material. I think you should be able to pull it out from there and then install a new one without having to drop the pan and pull the axle like on a C or later B with wheel hub on end of axle. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2010 at 3:13pm
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It looks like your splines are a little banged up. When you reassemble make sure the wheel hub fits snug on the taper or you could ruin the axle and the hub. It might be a good place for some high spot bluing to check the fit.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Jeff Z. NY
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2010 at 3:15pm
| Give an AGCO dealer a call for seal # 70206450 |
Posted By: Cal
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2010 at 4:15pm
| I usually drill into the outer ring of the seal and install a large self tapping screw at opasite sides then you have something to pull on. Use vise grips prybar or whatever it takes being careful not to mar the sealing surface of the axle. Cal in Ct. |
Posted By: Cal
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2010 at 4:20pm
| I forgot to mention when installing the new seal grease it goood and wrap the spline with plastic to not cut the new seal, if you mar the outer casting a little in removing the seal just smear a little silicone sealant arond the affected area. Cal in Ct. |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2010 at 4:38pm
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When I got the B home the left wheel was loose. It has beat marks on the nut like they must have had issues keeping it tight. From what I can tell, there is a 1/2" washer/bushing that is suppose to be on the axle before you put the wheel on, that is missing. That is how the manual seems to read, might be wrong though. What says the forum? Thanks for the insight on the seal, I will order one up. ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: BrettPhillips
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2010 at 5:14pm
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Charlie: The bushing that is missing forms the sealing surface for the seal that also appears to be missing. Given the condition of your axle splines, it may be that someone removed the seal and bushing in order to get enough room for the hub to tighten up on the tapered splines. Hopefully I'm wrong, and you don't have a trip to the junkyard in your future. |
Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2010 at 5:44pm
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Charlie. What you have is the standard B axle. You say the wheel hub was loose on the axle. They work loose and if not kept tight they only get worse. Soon the nut and lockwasher won't tighten up the splines no matter how tight you can get it. The wheel hub can have some material removed from the inside allowing it to go up a little closer where the worn splines will possibly make up tight.
I have taken some loose ones apart and found the gaps between the splines driven full of hardened concrete square nails. When they get that bad its time to find another final drive. You may have to fill the gaps between the splines with something to prevent movement forward and back even if you eliminate up and down shake
There is no washer of any kind on the axle before the hub goes on. What looks like a washer in some drawings is actually the ring the seal runs on. It is a press fit on the axle. You can see it in the photo and it is not missing.
The new seals are not leather and the lip seal available today is very easy to ruin putting them in. If the lip hangs up on the edge of the ring going in, it is a gonner. There is no way to knock it out from the back side and start over. Don't ask me how I know. Be very careful and good luck. Even being very careful it is a 50/50 chance it will mess up going in. They ain't cheap enough to be careless.
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Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2010 at 5:51pm
| Brett may be right about the ring being missing. What I'm looking at may be the stop for the ring |
Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2010 at 6:33pm
| Mmm. I just looked at a couple of my finals where the seal ring seems to be farther back past the end of the splines than in the above photo. This makes me think the ring is not missing. I can't see any daylight between the ring and the axle on mine. I can see what is left of the old leather seal in the above photo. |
Posted By: BrettPhillips
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2010 at 7:21pm
| After looking at the picture a bit more, I think Ken is right. The seal and spacer/bushing appear to be intact. Sorry for my mistake. It's been a few years since I finished my last set of finals. I have a '49 B that needs the same repair that is being discussed in this thread, but I haven't gotten a "round tuit" yet... I probably need to shut my yap and pay attention! ;-) |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2010 at 8:19pm
When the ring gets grooves in them like the one on the right they will not stop leaking even with new seals. I made up several sets. Most of them have been sold but I think I have one or two set. Someone bought a single so I am not sure how many I have. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2010 at 9:33pm
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Charlie, change out the seal as the guys said. Dicks photo shows the spacer the seal sets on... AFter installed, set the hub back on the splines. If the hub goes on past the splines, then you need a big washer to set over the hub splines so that when you tighten the nut it does not bottom out on the splines and not push on the hub. I have actually made 1/4 inch thick washers on the lathe that are 1.5 inch bore on one side to slide over the threads, and 2 inch bore on the other side to step over the splines so i can get a little more push with the nut... After installing the nut, slug it a couple times. Then see if the hub wobbles on the shaft splines. If it does, it may be bottoming out on the back side.. Take the hub back off and use a body grinder to grind 1/8 inch or more off the thick lip. That will let the hub drop 1/8 inch further inward toward the seal and let the hub get tighter on the splines... at that point, you will need the thicker washer on the outside so the nut dont bottom out. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2010 at 9:34pm
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i have a 36 inch cresent wrench (well a harbor freight version) that i got for $40. That and my 200 # butt standing on the end is about 600 ft pounds of torque to tighten the nut... thats the way i do it. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2010 at 6:17am
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I put it back together waiting on a seal and I have no wobble with the nut tight. Hopefully the seal will be no issue getting out or in. Thanks for the suggestions ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2010 at 7:48am
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Since you have it back together, take a measurement from the outer end of the axle to nut and add the thickness of the nut to that. Write it down. When you remove the hub to replace the seal, measure the length of the axle from the end to the spline. If the threaded length is even close to the first measurement, you might consider adding a washer as Steve suggested. The nut could be bottomed out and the hub feel snug but with any use the hub could work loose.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2010 at 9:47am
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I have asked this Question before
Why can't the worn out junk splined axle and the worn out splined junk hub be welded together and installed like a B/C flanged axle?
There is a 38 B in Dale Haymakers museum that has the splined axle and the splined 5 bolt adapter hub welded together. You can plainly see a nice clean bead of weld where the retaining nut and washer would normally be. NO NUT or Washer to hold the hub to the axle. The threaded end of the splined axle is clearly visable. I presume the splines were shot and this was a solution to keep the tractor working. All you have to think about is to change the oil seal you have to follow the R&R for a C or B with a flanged axle. Bearings and seals are the same for both the splined and and the flanged axles. I haven't done one yet but can't see why it won't work. Waiting for a reply from Dick L Ken
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Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2010 at 11:02am
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I forgot to add, Does anyone have a source for the large washer goes between the retaining nut and the wheel? The one that I have is crack and broke when I reinstalled it. I called around and no one has them. ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2010 at 12:47pm
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Ken, I see no reason why you couldn't weld them together. It might be a weak link if they don't fit well. You could remove the axle and weld inside as long as you don't get into the area where you inner race for the seal goes. I think Moglice would be a good candidate for that too. I have remounted a flywheel for a 25 hundred ton forge press with it and it had to be heated to remove the flywheel 8 months later when they decide to fix the machine right. http://www.moglice.com/ - http://www.moglice.com/ There are other types of epoxy that would work also. Charlie, Is the washer you are talking about just a lock washer? You should be able to get it from Fastenel http://www.fastenal.com/web/products.ex?N=999600000 - http://www.fastenal.com/web/products.ex?N=999600000 ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2010 at 6:28pm
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Hi Guys, just letting you know that I got it fixed. I used the above suggestion and drilled 2 holes into the old seal and inserted 2 deck screws and then used a claw hammer to pop the seal out easy as cake. I then wrapped the shaft face with some packing plastic and used a 3" PVC pipe to drive the new seal home, worked great. Thanks for the tips! ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: Rick of HopeIN
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2010 at 6:47pm
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your splines look beat up like mine from running loose. Don't be surprised if they move and clunk after a bit. The B setup is bad for that. I ended up cutting some shims out of aluminum sheet and jamming them under the spline 'ramps'. That has held for about a year and seems OK.
------------- 1951 B, 1937 WC, 1957 D14, -- Thanks and God Bless |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2010 at 10:31pm
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I actually had one B that the splines on the shaft looked pretty bad, and the splines in the hub were 75% gone. Guy had drilled two 1/4 inch holes next to the splines and beat two bolts in as wedges. I welded the splines in the hub with 7018 stick rod and used a small die grinder and file to get about 80% of the tooth contact back. Kept sliding the shaft into the hub and tapping on it to "seat" and checked the depth. Grind a little more on the high spots and tap it in again, etc. When i thought it looked pretty good i assembled the final drive with the shaft. I painted BELZONA (similar to jb weld) on the splines of the hub and shaft and tapped the hub on snug. Let it setup for 24 hours, then installed the nut and torqued to 600 ft pounds to pull it in the last few thousands. That was 5 years ago. I use the tractor with a belly mower about 30 hours a year. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |