Open Freeze Plug FIlls Engine w/ Water
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10545
Printed Date: 15 Nov 2024 at 8:52pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Open Freeze Plug FIlls Engine w/ Water
Posted By: keysas
Subject: Open Freeze Plug FIlls Engine w/ Water
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2010 at 11:29pm
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I really blew it today! I've been working to tune up a 1951 Allis Chalmers B in hopes of selling it soon. Its last start was about 5 months ago so I charged the battery, added gas, opened the fuel valve, and turned the key. Success! After running for about five minutes, I checked the radiator and saw it was low on water. I got the hose and started filling. The engine started running rough and then shut down. Before starting it again, I wanted to fill the radiator, so I kept filling. Suddenly, I realized water was dripping from EVERYWHERE around the engine block!!! My post-flooding investigation revealed that one of the engine head freeze plugs under the valve rocker arm had completely popped out, allowing water to flood under the valve cover and flow down into the oil sump. I'm guessing that water also got into the cylinders that had a valve open. I'm writing to the forums to see if anyone else has ever had to deal with this and what was required to fix it. At the least, its replace the oil, head gasket, and dry out the cylinders. At the most its an engine rebuild. Comments??? |
Replies:
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2010 at 1:03am
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The more common problem with those freeze plugs is that they rust through and put water into the crankcase. There's not a connection to the cylinders from the top of the head except around the valve stems so maybe you didn't bend rods, but you certainly didn't help the lubrication of the rod and main bearings on the crankshaft, or the bearings and cam followers on the cam shaft. So you may find bearing inserts welded to the shafts. Pistons lubricated by splashing water probably got scuffed too. Gerald J. |
Posted By: maurice
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2010 at 6:24am
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Forgive me for being a bit off-topic; does a WD have similar freeze-plugs?
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Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2010 at 9:03am
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Most likely what stalled the engine is just having so much oil/water in the crankcase. I saw a lube tech at the dealer I work for do that once. He forgot to drain the old oil and pumped in the new. The engine would hardly run because of being so overfull, the crank/rods were submerged. I'd put a new plug back in it, flush the crankcase thoroughly with new oil, get it up to 180 degrees and run it to evaporate any remaining moisture. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: johnkc
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2010 at 9:14am
| We get water in our boat engines all the time, have been very successful by changing the oil several times. Just replace the plug and get to changing the oil. Don't know why you would need to replace the head gasket. If it was sitting there idling with no load as you were filling the radiator I doubt there is any damage caused by the water. |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2010 at 9:17am
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Drain everything dry, put in (new) freeze (plugs), fill up with oil and water and everything should be fine. It is not like you used it for an extended time that way. |
Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2010 at 9:19am
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Maurice, yes the WD does have freeze plugs, most engines have them. I would do what Brian said but also before starting it I would pull the spark plugs and crank it over so if there is water in the cylinders it will blow out. Dusty ------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2010 at 9:20am
| Most all heads will have freeze plugs. (proper name is core plugs) It is how the sand is removed that forms the water passages inside the castings. |
Posted By: caRon
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2010 at 9:50am
| Dick L, haven't hear that term in a while. I worked 16 yrs in an engine foundry. That is pretty much the reason for those silly holes, have to get the sand cores out of there some how. Siamese in the water jacket or between the bores would be an issue without core plugs. |
Posted By: Chalmersbob
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2010 at 8:51pm
| Drain everything that you can. take the plugs out and turn the engine to be sure there isn't any water in there, shouldn't be. squirt some oil into the cylinders, Get fresh oil in the crank, change the oil filter. Make the repair and got it running AS SOON AS YOU CAN. GET IT HOT TO DRY IT OUT. If you wait, the rust will begin. When ever a boat sunk, we would get it up and start it asap. Bob |
Posted By: keysas
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2010 at 8:05pm
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Good news - the tractor still runs! I followed everyone's advice: tapped the freeze plug back into the head, drained the gallons of water and oil from the sump, replaced it with 4 quarts of used auto oil, removed the plugs, added oil to each cylinder, drove the engine with the starter for 10 seconds or so, reinstalled the plugs, filled the radiator, and squirted some starter fluid in the air intake for good measure. Set the key, pulled the choke and starter, and off she went! Ran for about 15 minutes to get it good and hot. Then closed shop because it was getting dark. Next time, drain the auto oil and add back fresh stuff. Thanks for all the help everyone!!! Andrew |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2010 at 9:34pm
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Should have drained it while it was hot. Every oil change. Gerald J. |
Posted By: Bob D. (La)
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2010 at 5:29am
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That's good news. Glad it is working out for you. God Bless. ------------- When you find yourself in a hole,PUT DOWN THE SHOVEL!!! |
Posted By: gdtractor
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 10:46am
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Hi .. you don't have a pic of the freeze plugs on an allis B or C engine do you? thanks much .. freeze plugs on the head of an allis chalmers c engine thanks Gary gdtractor
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Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 11:17am
 
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Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 4:53pm
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gdtractor, the frost plugs are the yellow holes in top photo, shiny silver in the bottom photo. Just tear into em (yes, wreck em) to get the old ones out (ALL 3 of them)!!! Gently tap the new ones to get them started then use something that will cover the entire top and tap them in with a hammer so they are flush. The indentation is toward the top. ------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
Posted By: corbinstein
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 6:48am
| Now that you got it running, I think I'd go ahead and replace those freeze plugs as if one popped out, the other's eventually will. replace them with new, per the shop manual. |
Posted By: gdtractor
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 4:42pm
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what exactly is a "wet sleeve" what is it referring to ? water or oil? and what is the purpose? (unfortunately I am in St Louis - actually St Charles .. MO .. for a wedding so i can't work on it) Thanks much Gary |
Posted By: gdtractor
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 4:44pm
| just what is a "wet sleeve" what is it referring to ? water or oil? and what is the purpose? |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 4:53pm
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A engine is either straight cast iron with bore being part of the block - that is machined to size for pistons to run on the cast iron forming the full block casting . Wet sleeve engine has block casting machined so a sleeve (liner) forms the bore for the piston to run in . These are a separate casting or steel sleeve that is fit to block - generally sealed top and bottom by head gasket and o- rings on bottom . Now this sleeve can be cooled by water surrounding sleeve or in some cases the sleeve is dry and no water touches it but contact with cast iron block is used for heat transfer Now in some engines the pistons are cooled by oil spray from rod onto piston and sleeve bore . ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 25 May 2017 at 5:50pm
4 cylinder motor with wet sleeves removed. What you see inside is the water jacket open to the backside of each sleeve. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: DenGuy
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 7:30pm
I'm hoping this is my trouble as well. I40 with double full crankcase. Coolant mixed with oil. Ran well on start up and I had just purchased it and parked it. I don't think I had more than 20 minutes or so run time on it when I discovered the problem. New oil and coolant at purchase. Makes me suspicious... hmmm. Drained the oil pan and now I'm waiting for a break in weather to pull the valve cover and pan for inspection. Be nice put new casting plugs in and get some work done.  Thanks for pics of the head. |
Posted By: gdtractor
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 8:22pm
| Where are the freeze plugs on a B or C Allis engine? Thanks |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 9:06pm
Scroll up about 9 posts, fer the picture...
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gdtractor wrote:Posted By: gdtractor
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 9:08pm
| Thx much .. sorry .. I didn't read the entire thread .. :) |
Posted By: gdtractor
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 9:18pm
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Thank you .... are you saying .. even though they LOOK good ... they may or aren't ? thanks again
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Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 10:22am
As long as you have the valve cover off and are in there, they are a cheap insurance plan to change them. They can and DO rot out from the bottom side and you can't see this until it is too late. It's better to change them out and then you'll know they are new. Hope this helps you out Gary. ------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
Posted By: mdm1
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 10:40am
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Like Ted said take a plug to a parts store and get new ones. Pretty cheap. ------------- Everything is impossible until someone does it! WD45-trip loader 1947 c w/woods belly mower, 1939 B, #3 sickle mower 1944 B, 2 1948 G's. Misc other equipment that my wife calls JUNK! |
Posted By: John426
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2019 at 5:04am
| What is the size ot the freeze plug for a C? |
Posted By: Jim.ME
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2019 at 7:51am
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Hello John426, Just a suggestion, it might be well to start your on post for such rather than tag on to one almost 10 years old. Review the info in past posts then start your own. Core plug is the same for the B and C by the parts book, AGCO # 70203093. The following dimensions were recently found for a member having a core plug leaking in a B head. HTH # 70203093: 1-1/4" core plug = 1.13" ID, 1.26" OD, .33" deep (info I found on line) 1.260" is a standard OD for 1-1/4" cup plugs. |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2019 at 11:24am
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DO NOT USE ANY PLUGS THAT HAVE CHINA ON THEM ,THEM ARE A BIT UNDERSIZE.
------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |